Carmelo Anthony Traded To New York

Collapse

Recommended Videos

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • ex carrabba fan
    I'll thank him for you
    • Oct 2004
    • 32744

    #721
    Re: The Carmelo Anthony Saga

    Darn Pretty, when you put it like that it seems like yall don't have a chance for a while since Miami will have their core intact for years to come. Because with the current team, you're for sure not getting past them.

    Unless you think Deng can be turned into something else?

    What is your blueprint for success

    Comment

    • PrettyT11
      MVP
      • Jul 2008
      • 3220

      #722
      Re: The Carmelo Anthony Saga

      Originally posted by ex carrabba fan
      Darn Pretty, when you put it like that it seems like yall don't have a chance for a while since Miami will have their core intact for years to come. Because with the current team, you're for sure not getting past them.

      Unless you think Deng can be turned into something else?

      What is your blueprint for success
      That's what I'm saying. Unless they have some injury issues are just don't gel I don't really see us beating them. Especially if we pull this deal off. We could make it a good series but at the end of the day we will still lose. And probably still lose to Orlando and maybe the Celtics. Your boys have the perfect setup for beating Miami and it's on the inside. They simply just don't have alot of bigs or good ones for that matter. That is why I still say the Lakers would beat them in a series and why Boston and Orlando could have a chance.

      IMO trying to go against them with other wing stars is not going to work. I mean they have 2 of the top 3 wing players in the game right now. So no matter what combo you come up with it won't be as good. Rose and Melo vs LeBron and Wade is a big L for the Bulls. I am huge on Rose and have been since I first saw him play but he has a ways to go before he gets to Wade's level and LeBron is just on another level than Melo. Don't get me wrong though Deng and Rose against them is an even bigger L but at least with Noah we would have a defensive presence back thier as well as another elite rebounder. I don't want to lose that and have to rely on Boozer and Kurt Thomas to protect the basket. That is just a dunk fest for LeBron and Wade waiting to happen. If we are anybody else for that matter are going to beat them it is going to have to be on the inside.

      If we knew what the new CBA was going to look like I would probably be higher on this deal but knowing that chances are pretty good that the cap and things are going down I don't want all my cap tied into the team like it would be made up cause at the end of the day that just isn't a championship team. It will just be a good team that could make some noise in the playoffs but hell we are/could be that already without Melo.

      Comment

      • mKoz26
        In case you forgot...
        • Jan 2009
        • 4685

        #723
        Re: The Carmelo Anthony Saga

        Originally posted by ex carrabba fan
        Darn Pretty, when you put it like that it seems like yall don't have a chance for a while since Miami will have their core intact for years to come. Because with the current team, you're for sure not getting past them.

        Unless you think Deng can be turned into something else?

        What is your blueprint for success
        Miami injuries. The Heat are top heavy, and the weight at the top surpasses that of most teams in the East, including the Bulls IMO.

        However, if one of the Big 3 goes down, I believe the Bulls' depth makes them the better team and they can beat the Heat in a 7 game series.
        Bears | Bulls | Cubs | Illinois | #Team3Some

        @CDonkey26

        Originally posted by baumy300
        Yeah, she may be a bit of a beotch, but you get back to me when you find out a way to motorboat personality...

        Comment

        • Nets
          Rookie
          • Mar 2003
          • 394

          #724
          Re: The Carmelo Anthony Saga

          Question for Knicks fans when or if you guys do acquire melo how far do you guys think a melo/stoudamire combination will take you? not trying to knock anyone but i'm sure he's going to new york. As a Net fan i know if we acquired him it's 1st round and out or if we saw Boston, Orlando or Miami it's over. The Bulls poster above also know that they still wouldn't be any better than Miami if they gave up Noah

          Comment

          • ehh
            Hall Of Fame
            • Mar 2003
            • 28962

            #725
            Re: The Carmelo Anthony Saga

            ^ I said earlier on that if we trade for Melo we'll be the 6th best team in the East - at best. That's assuming Gallo, AR and Chandler are traded.
            "You make your name in the regular season, and your fame in the postseason." - Clyde Frazier

            "Beware of geeks bearing formulas." - Warren Buffet

            Comment

            • Bornindamecca
              Books Nelson Simnation
              • Jul 2007
              • 10919

              #726
              Re: The Carmelo Anthony Saga

              It's hard to predict what happens if Melo and Amar'e join up, because they may create an entity greater than the sum of its parts. If they work off of each other properly, it won't be about them as individuals, but rather how they create problems on the court. That could make them an elite offensive team right off the bat. Defensively, Knicks still have to figure something out, because our defense looks legendarily bad right now. Historically awful. Like they aren't even bothering on that end of the floor.
              My Art
              My Tweets

              Comment

              • Dice
                Sitting by the door
                • Jul 2002
                • 6627

                #727
                Re: The Carmelo Anthony Saga

                Originally posted by PrettyT11
                That's what I'm saying. Unless they have some injury issues are just don't gel I don't really see us beating them. Especially if we pull this deal off. We could make it a good series but at the end of the day we will still lose. And probably still lose to Orlando and maybe the Celtics. Your boys have the perfect setup for beating Miami and it's on the inside. They simply just don't have alot of bigs or good ones for that matter. That is why I still say the Lakers would beat them in a series and why Boston and Orlando could have a chance.

                IMO trying to go against them with other wing stars is not going to work. I mean they have 2 of the top 3 wing players in the game right now. So no matter what combo you come up with it won't be as good. Rose and Melo vs LeBron and Wade is a big L for the Bulls. I am huge on Rose and have been since I first saw him play but he has a ways to go before he gets to Wade's level and LeBron is just on another level than Melo. Don't get me wrong though Deng and Rose against them is an even bigger L but at least with Noah we would have a defensive presence back thier as well as another elite rebounder. I don't want to lose that and have to rely on Boozer and Kurt Thomas to protect the basket. That is just a dunk fest for LeBron and Wade waiting to happen. If we are anybody else for that matter are going to beat them it is going to have to be on the inside.

                If we knew what the new CBA was going to look like I would probably be higher on this deal but knowing that chances are pretty good that the cap and things are going down I don't want all my cap tied into the team like it would be made up cause at the end of the day that just isn't a championship team. It will just be a good team that could make some noise in the playoffs but hell we are/could be that already without Melo.
                Not sure why your against getting a guy who's probably one of the best scorers in the game today. I always stated that I love Noah BUT with the exception of Rose, everyone on this roster is tradable for the right price.

                And I'll say this again, Melo will not bring the Bulls a championship this year...well...if they can get Melo without trading Noah then I'd have to reconsider. BUT if we do give up Noah for Melo, this will not bring the Bulls a title. However, the value of this trade would expand beyond this season. The only thing I'm concerned about is Melo signing an extension if he comes here. BUT the acquisition of Melo sets us up to be title contenders in the near future. With the way the East is shaping up, the Heat is going to be the main competition for the next couple of years. Boston is on their last legs and will be rebuilding after this season. If Orlando lays another egg in the playoffs, they might blow up their team.

                So this leaves the Bulls in a good position to make a run at Miami with some talent players. As you stated, we cannot compete with a James-Wade-Bosh trio with a Rose-Boozer-Noah trio. Now, a Rose-Boozer-Carmelo trio might not get them this season BUT who's to say what happens in the next couple of years? In the Miami trio, James is the only player who's likely to get better. Wade is going to hit 30 soon so what your seeing from Wade is the best he's going to get. Now if you look at the Rose-Melo combo, those two player will get better. And honestly, I think both can be top 5 players in the league.

                NBA championship are not necessarily won with big men. NBA championships are won with talent. They are won with impact players. How many impact players do you have on your squad and to what degree do they impact the game? This is the question you need to ask if you want to consider your team a championship contending squad. Noah and Carmelo are impact players. However, Melo impacts the game more than Noah does. Melo is a guy who can take over the game with his scoring and post offense. Noah is a guy who is a great rebounder and good paint defender. HOWEVER, I think people overrate his paint defense because they want to believe that Noah is the second coming of Diekembe Mutombo, which he isn't. Noah is a great rebounder that's good(not great) at post defense and very limited offensive skills. And as I always state, Noah is a player that's easier to replace than a guy like Melo. NOT saying that either player is easy to replace BUT I can find more players that give me Noah's production than I can find that can give me Melo's production.
                I have more respect for a man who let's me know where he stands, even if he's wrong. Than the one who comes up like an angel and is nothing but a devil. - Malcolm X

                Comment

                • PrettyT11
                  MVP
                  • Jul 2008
                  • 3220

                  #728
                  Re: The Carmelo Anthony Saga

                  Dice it's not that I'm against Melo it's that I against the deal of bringing in a guy and giving him a max deal and it not really making the team that much better. I mean giving up your best interior defender and rebounder for a guy that will only improve your team on one side of the court, cost you alot more money, and still doesn't put you on the same level as the other top teams. I'm sorry but I just don't like the idea of having Kurt Thomas, Boozer, and a unknown rookie protecting our basket. Then you throw in the fact that Melo is a weak defender and you go from having a solid defensive front court that we have now to the very weak one we would have. Combine that with the complete unknown of the new CBA and giving a guy 20 mil a year and not really making us that much better doesn't sound that good to me. If we was able to get him without giving up Noah then it's a entirely different story.

                  As far as Melo himself goes though I disagree with him getting any better. He pretty much is who he is going to be and that is a elite scorer. I don't see him making any drastic improvements. At best I could see he becoming more efficient but I don't see any big improvements coming. I think some guys in here are overrating the guy. I like him but he is no top 5 player in the league. Top 10 I could see but he is no top 5 player. I would take Durant over Melo everyday of the week without any second thought.

                  Comment

                  • TheMatrix31
                    RF
                    • Jul 2002
                    • 52927

                    #729
                    Re: The Carmelo Anthony Saga

                    Chicago's supporting cast is better than Miami's, in my opinion.

                    Comment

                    • Dice
                      Sitting by the door
                      • Jul 2002
                      • 6627

                      #730
                      Re: The Carmelo Anthony Saga

                      Originally posted by PrettyT11
                      Dice it's not that I'm against Melo it's that I against the deal of bringing in a guy and giving him a max deal and it not really making the team that much better. I mean giving up your best interior defender and rebounder for a guy that will only improve your team on one side of the court, cost you alot more money, and still doesn't put you on the same level as the other top teams. I'm sorry but I just don't like the idea of having Kurt Thomas, Boozer, and a unknown rookie protecting our basket. Then you throw in the fact that Melo is a weak defender and you go from having a solid defensive front court that we have now to the very weak one we would have. Combine that with the complete unknown of the new CBA and giving a guy 20 mil a year and not really making us that much better doesn't sound that good to me. If we was able to get him without giving up Noah then it's a entirely different story.

                      As far as Melo himself goes though I disagree with him getting any better. He pretty much is who he is going to be and that is a elite scorer. I don't see him making any drastic improvements. At best I could see he becoming more efficient but I don't see any big improvements coming. I think some guys in here are overrating the guy. I like him but he is no top 5 player in the league. Top 10 I could see but he is no top 5 player. I would take Durant over Melo everyday of the week without any second thought.
                      So if Melo improves on only one side of the ball, then what does Noah do for you? Because last time I checked, Noah was no more than a 10ppg scorer. Not exactly someone you need to worry about on offense.

                      To me, Melo can dominate a game more with his offense than Noah can with his defense. And whether you feel Dwight Howard is going to eat us alive without Noah, he's going to do that anyway with him. So what difference does it makes? And Orlando is not the target team here. It's the Heat we need to target.
                      I have more respect for a man who let's me know where he stands, even if he's wrong. Than the one who comes up like an angel and is nothing but a devil. - Malcolm X

                      Comment

                      • King_B_Mack
                        All Star
                        • Jan 2009
                        • 24450

                        #731
                        Re: The Carmelo Anthony Saga

                        I still don't see this urgency to get Melo or the idea that the Bulls are better off in the future with him. The Bulls with Melo are not going to beat Miami any time soon so what is really changing from not having him? We don't get him and go by the Melo support arguments we don't make it out of the second round. We get him, we make it out of the second round but still lose in the ECF every year to Miami anyway so is that supposed to be something to hang your hat on?

                        What also seems to continue to get lost in all this is that Derrick Rose is getting better, he's already 20.8 ppg in the regular season that he bumped up to 26.8 in the playoffs. As he said himself, 'why can't he be that guy?' Why can't Derrick Rose be the guy who finishes at the end of games? Why do you need to go running out for Carmelo to be the Bulls' elite scorer when you have a guy who WANTS to be that guy and has the ability to do it? Maybe I'm overvaluing the team but I think if you find a solid 2 guard who can put the ball in the basket to help Derrick with the scoring load a bit and this team is in a better position than they are with Melo.The Bulls have the same outcome in futures either way pretty much, get Melo you're not getting to a championship without another move at least, stay how they are and they aren't getting a championship without another move at least. There is so much more involved in making a move like this than simply 'ZOMGzzzzz Melo can score a lot of points! You have to be an idiot not to trade Noahs!!'

                        Comment

                        • Dice
                          Sitting by the door
                          • Jul 2002
                          • 6627

                          #732
                          Re: The Carmelo Anthony Saga

                          Originally posted by King_B_Mack
                          I still don't see this urgency to get Melo or the idea that the Bulls are better off in the future with him. The Bulls with Melo are not going to beat Miami any time soon so what is really changing from not having him? We don't get him and go by the Melo support arguments we don't make it out of the second round. We get him, we make it out of the second round but still lose in the ECF every year to Miami anyway so is that supposed to be something to hang your hat on?

                          What also seems to continue to get lost in all this is that Derrick Rose is getting better, he's already 20.8 ppg in the regular season that he bumped up to 26.8 in the playoffs. As he said himself, 'why can't he be that guy?' Why can't Derrick Rose be the guy who finishes at the end of games? Why do you need to go running out for Carmelo to be the Bulls' elite scorer when you have a guy who WANTS to be that guy and has the ability to do it? Maybe I'm overvaluing the team but I think if you find a solid 2 guard who can put the ball in the basket to help Derrick with the scoring load a bit and this team is in a better position than they are with Melo.The Bulls have the same outcome in futures either way pretty much, get Melo you're not getting to a championship without another move at least, stay how they are and they aren't getting a championship without another move at least. There is so much more involved in making a move like this than simply 'ZOMGzzzzz Melo can score a lot of points! You have to be an idiot not to trade Noahs!!'
                          The whole point of it is not to just get Melo and then do nothing else. Obviously, your going to have to make moves either way. I'm just saying, getting Melo gives us a better base to work with than the current base we have now.

                          And yes, Rose is going to be a great player. I've said that from the beginning. BUT with all the great PG's in the league right now, and I'm talking about guys like Paul, Williams, Rondo, Nash. Which one has a championship? One. And that's Rondo. But at the same time, Rondo wasn't the best player on his team when he won his championship.

                          So what does Paul-Williams-Nash have in common that they don't with Rondo? Paul-Williams-Nash never played with great wing players. Rondo had Pirece and Ray Allen. You need a great wing player to play with Rose if your talking about winning the championship sometime soon. And you noticed, Paul-Williams-Nash, all played with great big men. Paul has West. Williams had Boozer. Nash had Stoudmire. None of them has even made the Finals.
                          I have more respect for a man who let's me know where he stands, even if he's wrong. Than the one who comes up like an angel and is nothing but a devil. - Malcolm X

                          Comment

                          • hokupguy
                            All Star
                            • Apr 2004
                            • 5615

                            #733
                            Re: The Carmelo Anthony Saga

                            what do you all say the chance are that melo gets moved by tuesday?
                            i say 5 %
                            "Never say never, because limits are like fears and they are often just an illusion."-M.J.

                            Comment

                            • King_B_Mack
                              All Star
                              • Jan 2009
                              • 24450

                              #734
                              Re: The Carmelo Anthony Saga

                              Originally posted by Dice
                              The whole point of it is not to just get Melo and then do nothing else. Obviously, your going to have to make moves either way. I'm just saying, getting Melo gives us a better base to work with than the current base we have now.
                              And this is where we disagree here as I don't think that's true. The Bulls right now are closer to a championship than they would be if they trade a package of Deng, Noah, Gibson or James Johnson and a draft pick or two for Melo as opposed to aquiring a scoring 2 guard.

                              And yes, Rose is going to be a great player. I've said that from the beginning. BUT with all the great PG's in the league right now, and I'm talking about guys like Paul, Williams, Rondo, Nash. Which one has a championship? One. And that's Rondo. But at the same time, Rondo wasn't the best player on his team when he won his championship.
                              Nice stat, better one? It's harder to win a championship in the West, fortunately Rose plays in the East like the one PG who has a championship. Pierce was the primary scorer for that team and as good as Pierce is, he's not exactly the scorer Melo is.

                              So what does Paul-Williams-Nash have in common that they don't with Rondo? Paul-Williams-Nash never played with great wing players. Rondo had Pirece and Ray Allen. You need a great wing player to play with Rose if your talking about winning the championship sometime soon. And you noticed, Paul-Williams-Nash, all played with great big men. Paul has West. Williams had Boozer. Nash had Stoudmire. None of them has even made the Finals.
                              You don't NEED a great wing player to win a championship. It certainly helps but this is almost as big a myth as the whole...you need a superstar to win in the league talk. The difference between Rose and those other guards anyway is the fact that they aren't scoring PGs. They're games rely on them to set up the guys around them first and score second which is why they are ahead of Rose in assists while he's ahead of all of them in scoring.

                              I like Melo, I really do, but I see this as a lateral move for the team. It's all well and good saying put Melo with Rose and you'll win a championship but more factors come into play. Does Melo really want to be somewhere other than New York with a chance to play with Paul? Will he get along with Thibs once here? Will not winning a championship or even making it to the Finals immediately bring about the same response that he's giving right now? How's his contract going to look? Wade, Bron and Bosh signed they're new deals and can opt out after year three or four. The Bulls aren't beating the Heat in the timeframe of those three or four years, you gotta believe Melo is going to want a similar deal. Do you alienate Rose by basically telling him he's not good enough to be your guy and handing the franchise over to Melo? Those are questions that we don't know the answers to and I personally would not risk being wrong about for a move that does not even guarantee a trip to the Finals let alone a championship. Furthermore I still have yet to hear from anybody WHO the player is that you're going to just go out to get to replace Noah. Who's available, what's the move that you can just make whenever you're ready to add what you've given away?

                              Comment

                              • PrettyT11
                                MVP
                                • Jul 2008
                                • 3220

                                #735
                                Re: The Carmelo Anthony Saga

                                Originally posted by Dice
                                So if Melo improves on only one side of the ball, then what does Noah do for you? Because last time I checked, Noah was no more than a 10ppg scorer. Not exactly someone you need to worry about on offense.

                                To me, Melo can dominate a game more with his offense than Noah can with his defense. And whether you feel Dwight Howard is going to eat us alive without Noah, he's going to do that anyway with him. So what difference does it makes? And Orlando is not the target team here. It's the Heat we need to target.
                                But it's not a direct comparison between Noah and Melo. It is about what the move would do to our team. Like I have said before and what Mack is saying now that move would only slightly improve our team and doesn't really get us any closer to the championship while taking up more of our cap room. It would be a different story if we had a trash player on the wing but Deng is a solid player who gives us 18 a night and is easily a better defender than Melo and slightly better rebounder. So again the only gain is points. As far as Noah goes you don't just give away double double guys who are still improving. Especially when the guys behind him are either trash, too old te counted on as a full time starter, or unproven and very raw rookies.

                                As far as Orlando goes yes Dwight can still beast on Noah but he will serve a lot better than Thomas and the rook can. You can't just dismiss Orlando and say we only can concern ourself with the Heat. As long as they have Dwight down there with shooters around him they will be a problem. The only team to beat Orlando the past two years is the Celtics and Lakers. Those just happen to be the two teams that can try or play Dwight one on one and force the other guys to beat you. The gameplan to beat Orlando is to play Dwight one on one and force those others guys to beat you. With Thomas and the rook we have no hope of trying that or it will look like the Magic vs Hawks playoff series last year.

                                So at the end of the day right now we are a second round playoff team and could put up a fight there. If we brought in Melo we will still be in that same spot while giving 20 plus million a year and having no inside defense. That doesn't sound like a great move to make to me.

                                Comment

                                Working...