who would you rather have, Dirk or Pau?

[JBH3]

Re: who would you rather have, Dirk or Pau?

Give me Dirk as a #1 for the simple fact that I've seen him do it better than Gasol when he was with Memphis.

This. Ill take the Guy who took his team to the finals as the indisputable leader of his team over the Guy who hasn't.

but...but..but...Gasol avg'd 1.5 more rebounds and .7 more blocks.

Really...

[Bornindamecca]

Re: who would you rather have, Dirk or Pau?

but...but..but...Gasol avg'd 1.5 more rebounds and .7 more blocks.

Really...

I don't know why you're being sarcastic. Ex's point wasn't that Pau is a better first option than Dirk. It's about how well Pau fits into his role as a 2nd option. So it's "I'd rather have a great 2nd option than a good/very good 1st option."

And being a good 1st option doesn't automatically make you a great 2nd option. You gotta be good at all of the roleplayer stuff like passing, defense and rebounding, and Pau is better at those things. He is a better overall interior player, and that's the basis of the choice.

Of course Dirk is a better 1 to 1 player. He's a stone cold killer offensively, but it's easier to build around Pau.

[OSUFan_88]

Re: who would you rather have, Dirk or Pau?

You know what this poll tells me?

There are 21 Lakers fans on these forums.

[slimm44]

Re: who would you rather have, Dirk or Pau?

I don't know why you're being sarcastic. Ex's point wasn't that Pau is a better first option than Dirk. It's about how well Pau fits into his role as a 2nd option. So it's "I'd rather have a great 2nd option than a good/very good 1st option."

And being a good 1st option doesn't automatically make you a great 2nd option. You gotta be good at all of the roleplayer stuff like passing, defense and rebounding, and Pau is better at those things. He is a better overall interior player, and that's the basis of the choice.

Of course Dirk is a better 1 to 1 player. He's a stone cold killer offensively, but it's easier to build around Pau.

Reply to bold - I guess I just don't understand this line of thinking, but to be fair...are we adding one of these players to an existing team, building from scratch, or something different? If we're talking about the Lakers, sure I'd take Gasol. He fits very well with the pieces they have there. But if we're talking about the Mavs, would you still rather have Pau? I definitely would not. If we're talking about starting from scratch, I pick the proven leader over the proven 2nd option. If we're playing one on one, I take Dirk due to his outside shot and advantage in ballhandling.

What scenario are we looking at while picking?

[dossier]

Re: who would you rather have, Dirk or Pau?

well i never really established it.

My question was who would you want more, no matter the situation

[Bornindamecca]

Re: who would you rather have, Dirk or Pau?

You know what this poll tells me?

There are 21 Lakers fans on these forums.

That's just no good for the discussion, man. If you have a point, make a point, but don't invalidate people's opinions with this kind of nonsense. It's not like we're comparing Rajon Rondo to Derek Fisher here. We're comparing two All Star player at the top of their position with different strengths and weaknesses. Pau Gasol has proven himself against the best defensive/rebounding frontcourt players(literally the best-Duncan, Howard, Garnett, Perkins) in the league at the championship level. You don't have to be a homer to see that.

That's just trolling right there, man. Don't be a troll.

Reply to bold - I guess I just don't understand this line of thinking, but to be fair...are we adding one of these players to an existing team, building from scratch, or something different? If we're talking about the Lakers, sure I'd take Gasol. He fits very well with the pieces they have there. But if we're talking about the Mavs, would you still rather have Pau? I definitely would not. If we're talking about starting from scratch, I pick the proven leader over the proven 2nd option. If we're playing one on one, I take Dirk due to his outside shot and advantage in ballhandling.

What scenario are we looking at while picking?

I look at the question rather literally: Who would you take?

Whenever I hear that question I think, "Well, I'm a GM and I'm trying to win a championship." In that scenario, I know that Pau Gasol is pretty much the ideal PF in today's league. He does all of the interior stuff we discussed, he's intelligent enough to strategize(an underdiscussed point-he follows Phil and Kob's plans to the T and executes like a boss) and very, very few people can guard him one on one.

Dirk is a great player, but at the end of the day, if my 7 footer is shooting 3s, who's rebounding? That's always my issue. Who does Dirk guard? I know who Pau guards. And I don't just mean in general. These are the questions I ask when building a team.

I'm not saying you can't win with Dirk. I'm sure you can build a team to win a chip with him. But I KNOW how to do that with Pau. As a 2nd option PF, Pau is ideal. As a 1st option PF, Dirk has some issues.

It's about taking ideal over "issues."

[slimm44]

Re: who would you rather have, Dirk or Pau?

I look at the question rather literally: Who would you take?

Whenever I hear that question I think, "Well, I'm a GM and I'm trying to win a championship." In that scenario, I know that Pau Gasol is pretty much the ideal PF in today's league. He does all of the interior stuff we discussed, he's intelligent enough to strategize(an underdiscussed point-he follows Phil and Kob's plans to the T and executes like a boss) and very, very few people can guard him one on one.

Dirk is a great player, but at the end of the day, if my 7 footer is shooting 3s, who's rebounding? That's always my issue. Who does Dirk guard? I know who Pau guards. And I don't just mean in general. These are the questions I ask when building a team.

I'm not saying you can't win with Dirk. I'm sure you can build a team to win a chip with him. But I KNOW how to do that with Pau. As a 2nd option PF, Pau is ideal. As a 1st option PF, Dirk has some issues.

It's about taking ideal over "issues."

It's already been proven that Dirk will get you 10 boards a game in the playoffs (and he raises his game all-around in May and June), so I don't know why you don't think he can hit the boards. He's not a monster there, but he's not a slouch, either. He also only takes 1-2 3's per game, while most of his shots come from deep-mid range, which still leaves him in pretty good position to get rebounds. The main advantage Gasol has is on defense, but Dirk's offensive advantage neutralizes that.

Dirk has shown that he can lead his team to the Finals, and except for the most controversial referring possible, almost won a ring. It has not been proven (and I don't think it's possible) that Pau can lead a team that deep into the playoffs. If you want a second fiddle, sure, Pau is a great choice, but if you're starting from scratch, why start with a Robin when you can get someone who has shown themselves to be Batman?

[JBH3]

Re: who would you rather have, Dirk or Pau?

Born:

Can I ask where you are coming with this idea that Pau is a better passer? Does that mean flashier? Smarter? More efficient? Because, statistically, the AST/TO ratio among both of them from last year is moot. They both produced 218 assists, and Dirk had only 6 more turnovers than Pau.

PLUS...ok....Dirk is passing to who? Haywood? Kidd? Butler? Terry? Marion? All very good, but none of which are Kobe, or Bynum in the paint. So to that I would say Dirks 218 in 81 games was much different than Pau's in 65 games...add to that, that again...there's that #24 guy there too.

Even career-wise Gasol doesn't jump out, so where is this coming from?

And one more thing...just to drive this home. Dirk had ONLY 6 more turnovers than Pau, and played in 16 more games. So I would say that Dirk is the better passer, especially if we consider him as a #1 option vs Pau as a #2.

You know what this poll tells me?

There are 21 Lakers fans on these forums.

well i never really established it.

My question was who would you want more, no matter the situation

And that answer is clearly Dirk; or at least should be...

[JBH3]

Re: who would you rather have, Dirk or Pau?

Lest we forget one more aspect in the Dirk > Gasol argument. Games...

Dirk, in 12 seasons has played no less than 76 games in any one season (except rookie year), AND has 6 80+ games played seasons.

Gasol...in 11 years, has eclipsed 70 games played 5x.

So...An elite, hard to defend, lights out 7 footer for 80 games, or a lesser offensive talent and marginally better rebounder for 60 or so games?

[slimm44]

Re: who would you rather have, Dirk or Pau?

C'mon guys, you know you're not supposed to use stats to back up arguments. What are you guys thinking?

[JBH3]

Re: who would you rather have, Dirk or Pau?

C'mon guys, you know you're not supposed to use stats to back up arguments. What are you guys thinking?

This forum is the only forum on this site that seems to devalue stats.

[slimm44]

Re: who would you rather have, Dirk or Pau?

This forum is the only forum on this site that seems to devalue stats.

I found this out recently in the deep-mid range game thread. Won't deter me from using them though, because when they're interpreted in an educated and unbiased way, they can tell a lot about a player's ability, even if they don't agree with someone's opinion.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: who would you rather have, Dirk or Pau?

OK but don't act like stats answer any topic black and white.

Most of them don't tell jack IMO. Just like the whole mid-range numbers when trying to leave Kobe out of that topic. As far as JB trying to be funny about the difference in numbers from Pau, well that's what it's come down to since you really have brought nothing valid to your argument.

Anyway if you can't understand my line of thinking I don't know how else to say it.

Dirk's style of play aint for me.

[dickey1331]

Re: who would you rather have, Dirk or Pau?

I would take Dirk 100% of the time.

[JBH3]

Re: who would you rather have, Dirk or Pau?

OK but don't act like stats answer any topic black and white.

Most of them don't tell jack IMO. Just like the whole mid-range numbers when trying to leave Kobe out of that topic. As far as JB trying to be funny about the difference in numbers from Pau, well that's what it's come down to since you really have brought nothing valid to your argument.

Anyway if you can't understand my line of thinking I don't know how else to say it.

Dirk's style of play aint for me.

WTF is "being funny"? I've provided an analysis. You say Pau's a better passer. I say Dirk had the same amount of dimes, only 6 more turnovers, and played in 15 more games. Adding to the fact HE is the #1 option, and Pau is passing to Kobe, Bynum, etc...

I've provided a stat, an argument to back it up, and I get nothing in return. Only a "meaningless stat" remark overall. I give up....

Ok...you like Pau. I get it. You feel he's the better "piece" to pair with a Kobe or something comparable. Yay. Except the topic was who would you rather have hands down, w/o a Kobe on-board. You have to start w/ a player like Dirk, then add a Gasol.