CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

[Dice]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

Give me a break man you know this generation is way more selfish than some old guys who got paid peanuts to play basketball

Its not even a contest. Nobody is questioning anybodies love for the game, but I am definitely seeing what the love of money does

Sure we can look at their salaries now and say it's peanuts. BUT your not looking at the bigger picture of worth and profit margins of the NBA and at that economic times. Bill Russell got a $25,000 signing bonus from the Celtics. At that time, anybody making $25,000 a year was considered a middle class salary.

[23]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

Drewski... Agreed

Dice.... thats fine and dandy man, i have no issues with that. There is a huge spirit of non appreciation here on both sides is what im saying.

The nba is the one who started this its a business crap.. it turned into what you see now, no loyalty, hardly any stable teams, and players go with the money wind


da throne.... my job is not by contract status, and the truth is if Ive made 40 50 60 70 evne over 100 million.... I no doubt have a smaller window to complain about anything. .. They could easily do like Spreewell, say its not enough then retire

People was all over Spree for what he said, and its no different here... these ridiculous salaries trickle down to the so called fans and alot of them arent even worth it, whether you believe that or not, things are way out of order

[Drewski]

Drewski... Agreed

Dice.... thats fine and dandy man, i have no issues with that. There is a huge spirit of non appreciation here on both sides is what im saying.

The nba is the one who started this its a business crap.. it turned into what you see now, no loyalty, hardly any stable teams, and players go with the money wind


da throne.... my job is not by contract status, and the truth is if Ive made 40 50 60 70 evne over 100 million.... I no doubt have a smaller window to complain about anything. .. They could easily do like Spreewell, say its not enough then retire

People was all over Spree for what he said, and its no different here... these ridiculous salaries trickle down to the so called fans and alot of them arent even worth it, whether you believe that or not, things are way out of order

Exactly. Can't vacuum this conversation. I'd be pissed if my boss told me is be making less money next year. But I'm not making even 5 million a year. You better believe any average, every day, person could stretch 5 million dollars for probably the rest of their lives. Complaining about making 4 instead of 5 year is distasteful in the current economic situation and the players need to wake up and realize they aren't immune either.

Sent from the free throw line

[ffaacc03]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

Players and owners are both right and wrong on their stances, as they are pretty subjective ... ultimatelly, this would all be on who has the more leverage to make the other concede instead of who deserves to ...

By nature, owners have more leverage as not only are they the employers and more wealthy but they were the ones who lockout the players ... so having a significant amount of players playing overseas undeniably gives them more leverage ... to what extend ? ... it remains to be seen, but to me, it depends on the amount and stature of those players and not on the amount of $ they get to play overseas ... is it a long term viable option ? ... not, for none, but it doesnt matter as no business (and the NBA is a business) can harmlessly wistand more than 1 lost season, period.

In sum, to me, going to play overseas helps getting an agreement sooner, be it by little or by much ... I hope this to be resolve soon, but honestly seems like not ... NCAA basketball and 2K will have to suffice my need to relate with the sport in the meantime.

[Drewski]

I once felt the players gained leverage by going over seasbut really, the NBA offers more than euro ever could. Even under a new cba there's more money to be made. More competition to be had. More fame to be claimed. And its back home on the states. You think all these guys want to uprooted their lives,including their families,
.and move to Greece? Not most. And even if the league "lost" a few guys to euro, it wouldn't matter. They'd be replaced. Any superstar knows nothing compares to the nba treatment. Role players are replaceable. Fill in guys are drafted every year., and those drafters cost less than an aging vet who's job is to sit on the bench. The owners aren't risking anything, in my opinion, watching their guys go over seas. If anything its keeping their players names circulating dl when they get back to the nba theyre as popular as ever if not more after going on a euro trip and dominating.

Sent from the free throw line

[23]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

I actually think threatening to take your ball and go home is fruitless, especially going to a lesser league

The first time a club decided they're going to make Deron wait 2 months before he gets his first paycheck he'll get upset and leave

[Dice]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

Exactly. Can't vacuum this conversation. I'd be pissed if my boss told me is be making less money next year. But I'm not making even 5 million a year. You better believe any average, every day, person could stretch 5 million dollars for probably the rest of their lives. Complaining about making 4 instead of 5 year is distasteful in the current economic situation and the players need to wake up and realize they aren't immune either.

Sent from the free throw line

You absolutely correct on this conversation. I highly agree that the player will have to make concessions on this next CBA for the stability of the league. I just don’t like the campaign of the owners and David Stern putting sole blame on players salaries as the reason why the NBA is unstable financially. And to me, the popular opinion seems to rest on this claim. Which to me is misleading.

What I see here is a matter of pride with the players. Players don’t like to be blamed for the NBA’s financial troubles because in the eyes of the public, owners will always get the benefit of the doubt. And I can understand the sediments of the players. No one wants to be blamed for something they had no control over. BUT in this case, the players may have to swallow their pride for the greater good. As someone said, ‘no one has ever choked to death after swallowing their pride’.

And as with any relationship(business or personal) communication is always the key. If David Stern and these “New Jack” owners would stop playing gangster and Billy Hunter and some of the player reps stop acting like someone is going to eat their first born, then there could be a civil discussion on getting a deal done.

If the owners would have just reached out and said, “Hey, we ****ed up the money. Can you help us out?” I’m pretty sure the player would have made the concessions necessary for the next CBA. Instead, it was more of like, “LOOK, I wasted a whole bunch of money and I need more….HEY, I like that chain you got on. (Pulls out gun) Run dat chain before a bust a cap in yo ***!”

[Drewski]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

You absolutely correct on this conversation. I highly agree that the player will have to make concessions on this next CBA for the stability of the league. I just don’t like the campaign of the owners and David Stern putting sole blame on players salaries as the reason why the NBA is unstable financially. And to me, the popular opinion seems to rest on this claim. Which to me is misleading.

What I see here is a matter of pride with the players. Players don’t like to be blamed for the NBA’s financial troubles because in the eyes of the public, owners will always get the benefit of the doubt. And I can understand the sediments of the players. No one wants to be blamed for something they had no control over. BUT in this case, the players may have to swallow their pride for the greater good. As someone said, ‘no one has ever choked to death after swallowing their pride’.

And as with any relationship(business or personal) communication is always the key. If David Stern and these “New Jack” owners would stop playing gangster and Billy Hunter and some of the player reps stop acting like someone is going to eat their first born, then there could be a civil discussion on getting a deal done.

If the owners would have just reached out and said, “Hey, we ****ed up the money. Can you help us out?” I’m pretty sure the player would have made the concessions necessary for the next CBA. Instead, it was more of like, “LOOK, I wasted a whole bunch of money and I need more….HEY, I like that chain you got on. (Pulls out gun) Run dat chain before a bust a cap in yo ***!”

100%.

Its not the players fault things are where they are, if owners are throwing out their money the way they were, what are players supposed to say? No?

You can blame the players for following the money and not taking lesser offers to stick with their teams (loyalty issue), but it happens everywhere like that. It's hard to turn down lucrative situations, it's human nature. Whether it's right or wrong is beside the point. What it is, is natural.

I agree - if the owners had taken a different approach things could be looking drastically different. Instead, it's like... Hey bro you kicked my dog whyd you do that... while the players are like hey bro that dog just dropped a deuce on my front porch and then peed on my daily morning newspaper.

[23]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

I think what we arent hearing is how the agents are playing a big part in the players ears in this fiascal as well

The owners screwed up but abided by a CBA that allowed players pay raises each year, but David Stern definitely did not have the interest of the game at heart moreso than money and thats evident

Its not that the players are going to take cuts, its going to have to be a more permanent system if they all want the nba to survive and thats the sticking point, this is it

Right now things can never be the exact same

[Drewski]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

I think what we arent hearing is how the agents are playing a big part in the players ears in this fiascal as well

The owners screwed up but abided by a CBA that allowed players pay raises each year, but David Stern definitely did not have the interest of the game at heart moreso than money and thats evident

Its not that the players are going to take cuts, its going to have to be a more permanent system if they all want the nba to survive and thats the sticking point, this is it

Right now things can never be the exact same

Oh no doubt. This CBA is alot more important than either side getting the biggest piece of cake, and that also is lost in this lockout hype. It's beyond unfortunate that they are unable to discuss this situation with more than the next 2-3 years of salaries in mind. If both sides could just sit down, stop being so apprehensive, and work together on a new CBA that will help the league balance out some of these anomalies, I think they could come up with something that makes both sides very happy. This whole mad rush to get the CBA done before the deadline, or in a week, is incorrect. It's going to take a ton of critical thinking on both ends to find the right median, and until they are working together for the same goal, that will never happen. Just two kids pouting in their sandboxes.

My sandbox needs more sand. No mine.

It's like... stop arguing and put your sand together and start making some castles.

[da ThRONe]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

It seems like with any form of entertainment when the focus shift from presenting a quality product to increasing revenue they end up ruining the product and sales fall.

It's sad how both side approach a billions of dollar investment. What kills me is how they spend months to years saying something is unacceptable or they won't compromise on an issue. Only to later compromise or flat out cave in. Instead of both side coming to the table from the beginning saying we're flexible everywhere but here are our key issues we want to change/stay the same.

[23]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

The stuff theyre saying is fake anyway

we're in this together

we wont break

we're unified

we're going to europe


Just shut up already and either deal or dont deal

As much as Spree deserved to get lambasted and he did lol.... he quit and never stuck his head back in the curtain

[Dice]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

I think what we arent hearing is how the agents are playing a big part in the players ears in this fiascal as well

The owners screwed up but abided by a CBA that allowed players pay raises each year, but David Stern definitely did not have the interest of the game at heart moreso than money and thats evident

Its not that the players are going to take cuts, its going to have to be a more permanent system if they all want the nba to survive and thats the sticking point, this is it

Right now things can never be the exact same

That’s an interesting take.

If they are behind the scenes then expect the NBA to file an unfair labor practice grievance with the National Labor Relations Board. This incident happened in 1995 when David Falk tried to convince Jordan, Ewing and some of the other players he represented to decertify the union.

It seemed like as soon as the NBA filed, they reached an agreement almost immediately. Not versed on labor laws, BUT I’m assuming that agents aren’t suppose to interfere with negotiations between the NBA and the union.

And as far with the ‘overseas’ jump tactic, that still could work to the players advantage. However, I agree that it’s just talk. That tactic cannot succeed unless they get the right people involved.

[23]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

For that to work, they'd need Euro league officials, coaches, to decertify and form another union abroad... it would be a massive effort to even make the owners blink at something like this

[Drewski]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

For that to work, they'd need Euro league officials, coaches, to decertify and form another union abroad... it would be a massive effort to even make the owners blink at something like this

Agreed. Everyone will be back to the NBA once the smoke settles. Those who don't come back are likely replaceable. Those who get injured, that will be on those specific players, not the owners or the teams at all. All these players going overseas does is gather more international interest in the league. Somewhere, David Stern is laughing and