CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

[The 24th Letter]

the players went on strike for more money? unless I have this lockout thing completely wrong, thats not accurate...

[King_B_Mack]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

I bet "journeyman" actors and actresses don't make nearly the coin that the leading role does...

Q: how much is anyone worth? A: whatever someone will pay them.

We just willy-nilly throw this idea out that these guys SHOULD be paid around $14 million per if they're a star. Who says? Maybe the NBA owners are now saying those days are over. Yes, many owners are to blame for this, but the system is so screwed up that you almost have to overpay for a guy...

But at the end of the day I don't care if these guys ever play again or not. If many of them start defecting overseas, I bet they won't make the kind of money they want, and it will end up being 1) out of spite, and 2) the idea that making something is better than nothing.

Yes, because people running studios aren't stupid enough to pay those people top dollars knowing they can't carry a movie themselves. The second question doesn't even make sense. If the Lakers make 340 million dollars in a year, you're trying to tell me it's not fair for Kobe to get at least 14 million of that money since he'll be the primary reason for that number. Sure some of that will come down to Lakers that came before him, but the revenues for the team in a given year would probably be significantly less if Kobe was not apart of that team and they were trotting out a lineup of say...Smush Parker, Shannon Brown, Ron Artest, Lamar Odom and Andrew Bynum.

No one complains man........but those guys aren't "on strike" for more. Those guys try and keep their salaries as low key as possible.

If Bill Gates said tomorrow "I am not going to do anything more until I get paid more"......95% of people would say "well, screw you and go __ off. You won't be missed".

This is the problem the NBA players have now......their "claims of harship" have only just put in the spotlight how easy they have it. Not a good look.

And the NBA players aren't on strike for more so pretty much everything you said here is irrelevent. The players are being locked out, not on strike, there's a difference and they aren't asking for more, they're trying to keep what they already have though they have expressed willingness to give back some of what they're getting.

EDIT: And now that I think about it...actors and actresses hold out for more money all the damn time. Guys have turned down staring roles in movies/shows that have turned out to be huge box office/ratings successes because the pay wasn't enough, people have been replaced in shows/films for holding out for more money or a new contract. That entire post you made was pure fabrication man.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

good point with the actors/actressess

at the end of the day The players have earned the money theyve recieved, (that is what their JOB pays) and they have the right to protect that..

dont get me wrong, sacrifices kn BOTH sides need to be made to make this work...

even good ol boy Kevin "Id play basketball for nothing" Durant has turned into Kevin "were not going to back down" Durant during these times...

[J_Posse]

Perfect example is Terrence Howard and his decision to not be in Iron Man 2. Why? He wanted to be payed the most, as he was in Iron Man, so they re-casted and gave his part to Don Cheadle. A lot of people are over paid, especially on Wall Street and Big Oil, but people only complain about athletes because they're in the public view.

Sent from my M860 using Tapatalk

[TheMatrix31]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

Why don't people complain that Big Oil, Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg and Oprah Winfrey make too much money????

They most definitely do complain.


The league and teams need to get to the point where an expiring contract is no longer the most valuable thing possible. Not related to the discussion right now really, but a general observation nonetheless.

[Court_vision]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

EDIT: And now that I think about it...actors and actresses hold out for more money all the damn time. Guys have turned down staring roles in movies/shows that have turned out to be huge box office/ratings successes because the pay wasn't enough, people have been replaced in shows/films for holding out for more money or a new contract. That entire post you made was pure fabrication man.

Comparing an actor with a sports player is just...............stupid. Honestly, absolutely stupid.

An actor either takes a role or not. if not, the show goes on and another actor takes the job. The product goes on.

If the NBA guys won't play.......the game itself gets damaged. Fans lose interest, the product stops.

If these guys sit out 12 months, you watch the game drop back to early 2000 levels. Maybe some of you are kids, but I still remember the damage the last lock out did. I still know people who only "just" came back to the game the past few years. Months of publicity about players getting $10 million a year gradually slow burns it's way into people's minds.......the same people who then don't renew season tickets, don't go to games, don't watch on tv. Everyone loses with a lock out.

[mkharsh33]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

Actors/Actresses don't work under a salary cap...the NBA does. Kobe is only worth what the system will allow him to be paid. No movie stars have to deal with this.

To use KingBMack's argument above: the NBA has to do away with the salary cap altogether and use MLB's system. That way the Lakers can pay Kobe the way the Yankees would...and the Sacramento Kings can become the Pirates of the league, only hoping to compete with young kids that are brought up in the system, knowing it could be 19 years before you even play above .500 ball because there just isn't any money.

I can't remember who said this quote, but I believe it was an older baseball player from a previous era: "In my day a guy batting .220 was a utility player. Today he's called a multimillionaire." Bottom feeder players in the NBA are overpaid, and that is what the owners want to fix... Yes, they created that, but now they want to change this. I don't blame them. I love 1) shorter contracts because guys have to actually earn them more often, and therefore they play harder (Eddy Curry). And I love when 2) lower paid players become a success story and earn a contract instead of being paid, say, $3.5 million as the 10th man on the bench whose greatest skill is hand clapping, back patting and first off the bench after timeouts are called high-fiving...

[23]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

I think we all agree that there is a problem...even with guys earning contracts...after that year they tone it back down and relax, and we've seen it time and time again


The need is to fix the current system and do it in a way to where it doesnt happen again 5 years down the line. I think on both sides the love of money has ruined the game of basketball and thats not being said here.

I could care less about which multi millionaire makes more or less than another. Their tax brackets allow them the same luxuries and free stuff anyway, and they all run in the same circle

Whats being lost here is the game being damaged, owners operating at continual loses which could lead to a folding league, and whiny rich people mad at eachother over who should have the most

SMH

[da ThRONe]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

I think the players have a great point. What's expected of them isn't being reduced, but their pay is being asked to. If any of us was in this position where we were asked to do the same for less we wouldn't like it. If we had the ability to fight and not lose our jobs or earn create bad blood at the work place we would. So why so much ill will against players?

[mkharsh33]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

I'm think the players have a great point. What's expected of them isn't being reduced, but their pay is being asked to. If any of us was in this position where we were asked to do the same for less we wouldn't like it. If we had the ability to fight and not lose our jobs or earn create bad blood at the work place we would. So why so much ill will against players?

Let's set aside "value" for a moment... Leaving that thought on the backburner, and consider reality: poor people often resent rich people, correct?

I don't think a lot of people resent players being paid...it's the exorbitant amount they are being paid. And when they're making the money they are, and start making complaints, it just doesn't sit well with people. Is that unfair? Honestly, it doesn't matter...the perception becomes a reality.

We are in tough, tough economic times, the likes of which we have not seen in a long while. You can call it a downturn, rut, recession or depression - but the term doesn't matter. Unemployment is 9.2% in the U.S. Common sense (and having empathy toward those who actually purchase the tickets) says this is NOT a *good time* to start complaining about your wages, when your pay puts you in the top tier in the world. Everyone has a right to make as much as they can...but to whine when you are VERY WELL paid just isn't wise.

But if anyone is foolish enough to make the comparative argument that a teacher (for example) making $45K asked to cut back to $42K a year IS EQUAL TO asking an NBA player making $15 MILLION a year to cut back to $12M is laughable... This is not an apples to apples argument...

[The 24th Letter]

I'm think the players have a great point. What's expected of them isn't being reduced, but their pay is being asked to. If any of us was in this position where we were asked to do the same for less we wouldn't like it. If we had the ability to fight and not lose our jobs or earn create bad blood at the work place we would. So why so much ill will against players?

I assume "none of that should matter" since they make alot of money...

or this idea that NBA players just started to enjoy being paid handsomely during the 2000's.....and "back then" wouldve settled for whatever they got because they "love the game so much"

[da ThRONe]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

Let's set aside "value" for a moment... Leaving that thought on the backburner, and consider reality: poor people often resent rich people, correct?

I don't think a lot of people resent players being paid...it's the exorbitant amount they are being paid. And when they're making the money they are, and start making complaints, it just doesn't sit well with people. Is that unfair? Honestly, it doesn't matter...the perception becomes a reality.

We are in tough, tough economic times, the likes of which we have not seen in a long while. You can call it a downturn, rut, recession or depression - but the term doesn't matter. Unemployment is 9.2% in the U.S. Common sense (and having empathy toward those who actually purchase the tickets) says this is NOT a *good time* to start complaining about your wages, when your pay puts you in the top tier in the world. Everyone has a right to make as much as they can...but to whine when you are VERY WELL paid just isn't wise.

But if anyone is foolish enough to make the comparative argument that a teacher (for example) making $45K asked to cut back to $42K a year IS EQUAL TO asking an NBA player making $15 MILLION a year to cut back to $12M is laughable... This is not an apples to apples argument...

It's sad we are so condition to be dumb we rather hate on people in position to better themselves or maintain their situation. Instead of questioning and/or demanding the same fair treatment in our careers and from our lawmakers. It's almost depressing, but since it isn't sports related i'll leave it alone.

[Drewski]

Let's set aside "value" for a moment... Leaving that thought on the backburner, and consider reality: poor people often resent rich people, correct?

I don't think a lot of people resent players being paid...it's the exorbitant amount they are being paid. And when they're making the money they are, and start making complaints, it just doesn't sit well with people. Is that unfair? Honestly, it doesn't matter...the perception becomes a reality.

We are in tough, tough economic times, the likes of which we have not seen in a long while. You can call it a downturn, rut, recession or depression - but the term doesn't matter. Unemployment is 9.2% in the U.S. Common sense (and having empathy toward those who actually purchase the tickets) says this is NOT a *good time* to start complaining about your wages, when your pay puts you in the top tier in the world. Everyone has a right to make as much as they can...but to whine when you are VERY WELL paid just isn't wise.

But if anyone is foolish enough to make the comparative argument that a teacher (for example) making $45K asked to cut back to $42K a year IS EQUAL TO asking an NBA player making $15 MILLION a year to cut back to $12M is laughable... This is not an apples to apples argument...

Very true. I've always believed in perception is reality, and this is so true here. At the end of the day its all individual perception for anyone who looks at this sad situation.

The players have the right to want every penny. Just like I have the right to drink(eat at that point? Ick) milk that's been sitting out for a week. Doesn't mean its the best thing to do.

I was happy to read Ray Allen say its embarrassing to be haggling when theres already a ridiculous amount of money in play across the board for everyone to get their piece of the money pie. Just too bad everyone wants the biggest piece with the most frosting.

Sent from the free throw line

[bigeastbumrush]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

Instead of enjoying summer league games in Vegas, PP is having a good time making "some change" on the side. Nice to see him doing 'regular stuff' with average joes.

The Boston Celtics star cruised through his first session of play at the 2011 World Series of Poker, more than doubling his chip stack from 30,000 to 62,750 and positioning himself nicely for the second session on Monday. The nine-time All-Star is one of a number of celebrities in the field. Others include Jason Alexander and Ray Romano.

This is the first time Pierce is playing in the main event. Though he's been known to frequent the poker room at the Foxwoods Casino in Massachusetts, he's new to major tournaments.
"I think poker has really helped me develop patience and that helps me in everything I do in life," Pierce told PokerListings.com. "It helps me on the basketball court, to be more patient and to be more of a thinking player and to be smarter out there."

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Paul-Pierce-is-doing-surprisingly-well-at-the-Wo?urn=nba-wp6268

[J_Posse]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

Let's set aside "value" for a moment... Leaving that thought on the backburner, and consider reality: poor people often resent rich people, correct?

I don't think a lot of people resent players being paid...it's the exorbitant amount they are being paid. And when they're making the money they are, and start making complaints, it just doesn't sit well with people. Is that unfair? Honestly, it doesn't matter...the perception becomes a reality.

We are in tough, tough economic times, the likes of which we have not seen in a long while. You can call it a downturn, rut, recession or depression - but the term doesn't matter. Unemployment is 9.2% in the U.S. Common sense (and having empathy toward those who actually purchase the tickets) says this is NOT a *good time* to start complaining about your wages, when your pay puts you in the top tier in the world. Everyone has a right to make as much as they can...but to whine when you are VERY WELL paid just isn't wise.

But if anyone is foolish enough to make the comparative argument that a teacher (for example) making $45K asked to cut back to $42K a year IS EQUAL TO asking an NBA player making $15 MILLION a year to cut back to $12M is laughable... This is not an apples to apples argument...

Teachers, police officers and firefighters are civil servants, no one profits financially from the work they do (I'm going to school to become a teacher mind you). The NBA on the other hand is a source of entertainment and generates billions of dollars annually. The players are the biggest part of that entertainment value, so they deserve a reasonable cut of the revenue grossed. If the owners all want to see a profit then they should have increased revenue sharing and spend less on player salaries. Instead, we have them spend $500+ million in present and future pay last summer, while turning around and crying poor this year/summer. I call bull****.

The players shouldn't have to sacrifice and help stop the owners overspending, which I thought they resolved with the '98-'99 strike/lockout, when the owners could just learn some restraint.

Please, a system like baseball would be far worse for all parts involved not in New York, Chicago, Boston, Los Angeles, Philadelphia and Dallas. That is the last thing I want to see for the NBA or the fans of small market teams.