CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

[Eman5805]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><tr><td style="background-image: url('/vBulletin/images/quotes/04.gif');width:37px;height:1px;" width="37">
</td> <td style="background-image: url('/vBulletin/images/quotes/00.gif');width:100%;height:1px;" width="100%"> The whole idea that owners need an agreement to protect themselves from their own incompetence is simply laughable.
</td></tr></tr></tbody></table>

Maybe I'm naive, but what is so wrong with setting up a system where you don't crush your franchises hopes of success because someone makes a multi-million dollar mistake?

[mkharsh33]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

This is why Bill Simmons is a borderline NBA genius. Of course he makes too much sense for the arrogant David Stern to give this a sniff. Will take you a bit of time to read this, but please do so:

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/6749669/if-ruled-nba-world

[DonWuan]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

This is why Bill Simmons is a borderline NBA genius. Of course he makes too much sense for the arrogant David Stern to give this a sniff. Will take you a bit of time to read this, but please do so:

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/...uled-nba-world

I wish I had time to post more on OP because no one in north florida(Tallahassee) are basketball fans.

But that article was a good read. With boring drafts on Nba Tv, i really needed that. About to read the LeBronDown article, this should be interesting.

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/6640925/time-lebrondown-part-ii

[Court_vision]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

RAY ALLEN SPEAKS THE TRUTH!!!!!


Ray Allen On NBA Lockout "It's Embarrassing"

http://sports.yahoo.com/video/player/nba/25844322;_ylt=AvgtrF0xezzZrn74qMb6bji8vLYF#nba/25882615

[da ThRONe]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

This is why Bill Simmons is a borderline NBA genius. Of course he makes too much sense for the arrogant David Stern to give this a sniff. Will take you a bit of time to read this, but please do so:

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/...uled-nba-world

This article was off when it came to the main points IMO. He talks about players contracts being based on all-star appearances, when it's a huge popularity contest. He talks about the sport needing large markets, when we see the most successful sport in this country clearly doesn't rely on big markets.

He talks about thinking out of the box then say they should carry on business as usual in the areas they should be changing. The problem with basketball is a lack of parity and a regular season that is viewed by many as irrelevant. I think it's laughable that he suggest gimmicks to improve the sport, either that or contraction of franchises. The one thing I think he had a good point with was sponsorship on the jersey's.

The money in sports is tv related. The NBA has to find a way to make the regular season more convenient to watch and add some urgency to those games. They have to capture the very thing that brings people to the post season and apply it to the regular season. My suggestion is to contract the regular season like I stated here http://www.operationsports.com/forum...post2042570949.

[23]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

RAY ALLEN SPEAKS THE TRUTH!!!!!


Ray Allen On NBA Lockout "It's Embarrassing"

http://sports.yahoo.com/video/player...F#nba/25882615

Totally agree with Ray

[Outcast]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

RAY ALLEN SPEAKS THE TRUTH!!!!!


Ray Allen On NBA Lockout "It's Embarrassing"

http://sports.yahoo.com/video/player...F#nba/25882615

Ray Allen is a smart person, the game is more important to him than his own greed, and he knows that very few people have the opportunity to make millions by playing a sport that they like

[23]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

It actually sounds like Ray has a vision, more than I can say for Billy Hunter or Derek Fisher and some of these owners

Thats the problem...but we already knew this new what have you done for me lately generation is selfish

[WTF]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

Very nicely said Ray. NBAPU, please take notes from Ray.

[mkharsh33]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

Yeah, but (da Throne) the NBA will NEVER contract their season, so you need to move to Plan B...

There is NO WAY they will ever shorten down the season because the loss of income would be too much. Now, I haven't come over to that thread, so I don't know what you guys have discussed. But if the starting point to your proposed solutions to fixing the NBA is a shortened season, it won't happen.

Simmons does have some wild ideas (he's a sensational journalist, of which we'd all agree), but through his humor and quirkiness he does provide some good food for thought.

Just out of curiosity, how do you think his All-Star wage scale is flawed - meaning: who should have been an All-Star that hasn't? Or maybe this: making certain statistical qualifiers? I know the rebuttal will be, "well, that will create selfishness which isn't good for the game." IMO, the NBA is a selfish game by nature... But the whole system is flawed and needs fixed. Like I said, I don't care if they ever play another game ever again. I once loved basketball, but not anymore. The reason why I actually did watch the Mavericks-Heat series was (like many) my dislike for the Heat, but MORESO the way the Mavericks played - they reminded me of how basketball was once played, something that Rick Carlisle and many of their players acknowledged. Maybe there's something to this that the NBA should look at: many don't like the "new" NBA...

[23]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

I like the idea of a tier system, but the all defense teams and first team nba are no longer by the work they do but either by reputation or bias and popularity

Thats what makes that so terrible... now I love his tournament idea because i think the playoffs would be super exciting with these guys fighting for their lives every single game

The less games thing is not happening, from a practical nor from a common sense standpoint, and most of us dont agree with it

[Dice]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

This article was off when it came to the main points IMO. He talks about players contracts being based on all-star appearances, when it's a huge popularity contest. He talks about the sport needing large markets, when we see the most successful sport in this country clearly doesn't rely on big markets.

He talks about thinking out of the box then say they should carry on business as usual in the areas they should be changing. The problem with basketball is a lack of parity and a regular season that is viewed by many as irrelevant. I think it's laughable that he suggest gimmicks to improve the sport, either that or contraction of franchises. The one thing I think he had a good point with was sponsorship on the jersey's.

The money in sports is tv related. The NBA has to find a way to make the regular season more convenient to watch and add some urgency to those games. They have to capture the very thing that brings people to the post season and apply it to the regular season. My suggestion is to contract the regular season like I stated here http://www.operationsports.com/forum...post2042570949.

In a way, I agree with you on not including all-star appearances in determining a tier level system. I'd rather just stick with appearances on the All-NBA teams. OR have a more of a point system of what a players contributions were to a team. And with that, have a system where it ties into the success of the team. So for example, give players a certain amount of points for leading the team in scoring, rebounds or assists. And if they're the leading a team in points, rebounds or assists that's either a division winner or a 50+ winning team then double the points. And if their leading a team statistically on a conference winning team triple the points. And statistic leaders on a championship team quadruples the points. Of course, it's going to need a ton of revision but a point system like that ALONG with the all-star game appearances and ALL NBA appearances would balance out the tier system.

I do disagree with you and agree with Simmons on the league needing large market teams. I've said this many times here BUT I don't know why people want the NBA to mirror the NFL model. The NBA is not the NFL and it will never be the NFL. And trust me when I say this, I love basketball more than I love football. BUT the reality of it is the NFL is much more popular than the NBA. As Simmons stated in the article, what sport can generate billions of viewers around the world in their championship game and not worry about who are the participants in the contest? If the Superbowl was on the same day as game 7 of the NBA Finals, the Superbowl would get more viewers. Even if the Superbowl had the Jaguars playing the Cardinals AND the Lakers was playing the Heat in that game 7. The Superbowl would still draw more viewers. He also points out on how popular the NFL can be without being in the second largest market in LA for some years. Can you imagine the devastation if the league was to move or contract the Lakers?

The NBA only needs about 25 teams. Sorry, but that's the reality. Through the eyes of an average sports fan, the NFL is identified by the teams. In the NBA, it's identified by it's players. And if there are some identifiable teams in the NBA by a non-sports fan, it's be a few franchises. So if you ask a causal fan in Russia to name some NBA teams, he'd give you the Bulls, Lakers, Celtics, Knicks and maybe one other team.

The Bulls is another example of what star power does for the league and franchises. Before 1984, the Bulls were relatively an average NBA franchise that was basically obscure and irrelevant outside of basketball fans. BUT after taking a ride through the Jordan era, people in China know about the Bulls. And Jordan has not played with the Bulls since 1998 and they still hold this popularity. So why is the league marketing players instead of teams and where did it start? Give thanks to the so-called "Best Commissioner in Sports History". David Stern.

[ffaacc03]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

Nothing new to the elemental info we know but just another interesting take from one of the host of this embarrasing drama: the NBA lockout.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/sam_amick/07/08/maurice.evans.lockout.qa/index.html?sct=nba_t2_a4

[da ThRONe]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

In a way, I agree with you on not including all-star appearances in determining a tier level system. I'd rather just stick with appearances on the All-NBA teams. OR have a more of a point system of what a players contributions were to a team. And with that, have a system where it ties into the success of the team. So for example, give players a certain amount of points for leading the team in scoring, rebounds or assists. And if they're the leading a team in points, rebounds or assists that's either a division winner or a 50+ winning team then double the points. And if their leading a team statistically on a conference winning team triple the points. And statistic leaders on a championship team quadruples the points. Of course, it's going to need a ton of revision but a point system like that ALONG with the all-star game appearances and ALL NBA appearances would balance out the tier system.

The problem here is deciding who is who. I think CP3 is in the agruement for best player in the league. Some may say I'm a homer or flat crazy. I don't think Dirk is in the discussion for best player in the game. Some may think I'm crazy for that. The point is people see things completely differently at times. How can we a system that's based on public perception and not front office guys ability to do their F-ING jobs?

I do disagree with you and agree with Simmons on the league needing large market teams. I've said this many times here BUT I don't know why people want the NBA to mirror the NFL model. The NBA is not the NFL and it will never be the NFL. And trust me when I say this, I love basketball more than I love football. BUT the reality of it is the NFL is much more popular than the NBA. As Simmons stated in the article, what sport can generate billions of viewers around the world in their championship game and not worry about who are the participants in the contest? If the Superbowl was on the same day as game 7 of the NBA Finals, the Superbowl would get more viewers. Even if the Superbowl had the Jaguars playing the Cardinals AND the Lakers was playing the Heat in that game 7. The Superbowl would still draw more viewers. He also points out on how popular the NFL can be without being in the second largest market in LA for some years. Can you imagine the devastation if the league was to move or contract the Lakers?

The NBA has never tried to market all it's teams. They have always given unfair advantages to large market teams and then said "Hey Bucks fans come out and see the Lakers tonight". So how can we say something won't work when it's never been tried? Yeah before the internet and the massive appeal of ESPN large markets had to dominate. IMO that formula is out dated. Most casual fans are fickle and will support what ever team thats hot.

The reason the NFL can sell any team is because that's how they market their sport. They keep it fair so no matter how crappy your team is they are a few good decision away from being competitive. This would be even more possible in basketball because you only need to get lucky and aquire one guy to change the franchise.

The NBA only needs about 25 teams. Sorry, but that's the reality. Through the eyes of an average sports fan, the NFL is identified by the teams. In the NBA, it's identified by it's players. And if there are some identifiable teams in the NBA by a non-sports fan, it's be a few franchises. So if you ask a causal fan in Russia to name some NBA teams, he'd give you the Bulls, Lakers, Celtics, Knicks and maybe one other team.

Once again I disagree. IMO the number of teams is less relevant then the number of games and how the league is marketed. The "Flex cap" if it's tight enough can very well make the league more even and as as a result more important. I feel if we have more casual fans caring about the Bobcats vs. the T'wovles the better the league will be overall. Trying to build the league around a hand full of teams is flawed logic to me. The product itself is dynamic enough to market on it's on. The game is great on t.v. (better than football IMO) the shelf life of players are way longer than football and there's way less players per team so the talent pool isn't a concern.

The Bulls is another example of what star power does for the league and franchises. Before 1984, the Bulls were relatively an average NBA franchise that was basically obscure and irrelevant outside of basketball fans. BUT after taking a ride through the Jordan era, people in China know about the Bulls. And Jordan has not played with the Bulls since 1998 and they still hold this popularity. So why is the league marketing players instead of teams and where did it start? Give thanks to the so-called "Best Commissioner in Sports History". David Stern.

Once again IMO this may have been good for the game 25-30 years ago, but now it isn't. T.V. is where the money is. The more you can get people interest in every team the better ratings for the sport will be. If the league allows the Lakers, Knicks, Celtics, Miami(which was a little different because they took pay cuts) etc to out bid the smaller markets aquire all the talent. Then have the league only market these guys than casual fans will only want to watch those few teams and ignore all the other teams.

If the league feels like the small market teams aren't important why should Joe Casual Fan?

[da ThRONe]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

After thinking about this for the past couple of months this is what I want in the new CBA

-BRI(net) split of 50-50 players/owners
-Flex cap starting at 58 million.
A floor of 48million<the least a team can spend>
A ceiling of 68million<the most a team can spend>
*Every year the cap would be adjusted based on the BRI
-Luxury tax of 3 to 1 for every dollar a team goes over 58 million cap
-Reduced regular season games from 82 to 56
-Start the season in December
-Best of 5 series throughout the playoffs
-Better geographically divisional alignment
-Raising divisional games +2<from 4 to 6>
-Have all games played on Tuesdays, Thursday, and Saturdays
*With exceptions to seasonal games
-End Bird rule
-End MLE
-Restrit contracts longer than 5 years
*2nd to last year team option
*Last year player option
-End qualifing offers