NBA Lockout and Collective Bargaining Agreement Discussion

[l3ulvl]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Bargaining Agreement Discussion

I don't get the player hate for not caving, but nobody is saying hey owners how about you guys get off your high horse and meet the players at X amount.

Some people have the "might is right" logic. Just because the owners are in a position of power don't mean there case is just. Likewise I have shifted to calling the players out because at this point both sides are losing. They both are willing to cut the baby in half just to prove a point and that's dumb. Now I'm calling both sides out not just the side with the "ZERO" leverage.

Because the owners don't have to compromise. The players are in a position where there is no choice. The owners can just say "ok lets cancel the season" and the players don't get paid. The players are playing russian roulette with a fully loaded pistol.

[da ThRONe]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Bargaining Agreement Discussion

Because the owners don't have to compromise. The players are in a position where there is no choice. The owners can just say "ok lets cancel the season" and the players don't get paid. The players are playing russian roulette with a fully loaded pistol.

The point is that kind of logic doesn't deserve any support. Just because you can strong arm your way into getting what you want doesn't mean you should especially at the expense of the season. The owners should be held accountable for they're part in this, but some people rather just ignore their tactics and call out the players. The owners could have just as easily said ok to 52% just like the players could have agree to 50%. Both parties should be receiving heat for missed games at this point.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Bargaining Agreement Discussion

Yes. Yes they should. That's exactly what it means. That's the entire point of everything. Of the word "leverage", of the word "negotiations", of everything.

That is EXACTLY what it's all about. Thinking otherwise is just utopian nonsense where the owners are supposed to just sing kumbaya with the players even though they have all the power.

No.

[l3ulvl]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Bargaining Agreement Discussion

The point is that kind of logic doesn't deserve any support. Just because you can strong arm your way into getting what you want doesn't mean you should especially at the expense of the season. The owners should be held accountable for they're part in this, but some people rather just ignore their tactics and call out the players. The owners could have just as easily said ok to 52% just like the players could have agree to 50%. Both parties should be receiving heat for missed games at this point.

It's not supporting the owners, it's accepting it. The players have refused to do that and are costing themselves money, and the fans enjoyment. The whole "siding" thing is silly to me, fans are just angry that the players are ignorant to the facts in front of them and stubbornly sticking to these dumb slogans instead of acknowledging their backs are against the wall. Sign the damn papers and lets get some basketball.

[da ThRONe]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Bargaining Agreement Discussion

It's not supporting the owners, it's accepting it. The players have refused to do that and are costing themselves money, and the fans enjoyment. The whole "siding" thing is silly to me, fans are just angry that the players are ignorant to the facts in front of them and stubbornly sticking to these dumb slogans instead of acknowledging their backs are against the wall. Sign the damn papers and lets get some basketball.

Once again I hold both parties equally responible now. The owners can just as easily take the high road for the sake of the fans. Because they have the leverage they get a pass. This is what I don't understand. Slogan or no slogan both sides are being stubborn. Wrong is wrong, but yet some people are putting all the blame with the players. I don't understand this when the owners clearly had their agenda, that's if anything is more a fault for the current state of the NBA, yet because they have leverage that makes them the relieves them of their part in all of this? Makes no sense to me.

[The 24th Letter]

Yes. Yes they should. That's exactly what it means. That's the entire point of everything. Of the word "leverage", of the word "negotiations", of everything.

That is EXACTLY what it's all about. Thinking otherwise is just utopian nonsense where the owners are supposed to just sing kumbaya with the players even though they have all the power.

No.

Stopped at "negotiations"...that word and that logic don't match up....at all.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Bargaining Agreement Discussion

Because the owners don't have to compromise. The players are in a position where there is no choice. The owners can just say "ok lets cancel the season" and the players don't get paid. The players are playing russian roulette with a fully loaded pistol.

True, which is what gets me.....

They worked out most of the system issues that would increase the supposed competitve balance they were so called seeking....so to cancel the season b\c of this sticking point is pure greed.

and this is who people are rolling with.....

[l3ulvl]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Bargaining Agreement Discussion

Once again I hold both parties equally responible now. The owners can just as easily take the high road for the sake of the fans. Because they have the leverage they get a pass. This is what I don't understand. Slogan or no slogan both sides are being stubborn. Wrong is wrong, but yet some people are putting all the blame with the players. I don't understand this when the owners clearly had their agenda, that's if anything is more a fault for the current state of the NBA, yet because they have leverage that makes them the relieves them of their part in all of this? Makes no sense to me.

I think it still stems from the public being jealous of the players for getting paid huge bucks to play a game. We look at it as fans and think "come on guys, this game has brought you fame and fortune, taking a slight cut will still bring you fame and fortune, so what's the problem?"

[CharliePrince]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Bargaining Agreement Discussion

It's not supporting the owners, it's accepting it. The players have refused to do that and are costing themselves money, and the fans enjoyment. The whole "siding" thing is silly to me, fans are just angry that the players are ignorant to the facts in front of them and stubbornly sticking to these dumb slogans instead of acknowledging their backs are against the wall. Sign the damn papers and lets get some basketball.

basically this ^

truthfully, I can't wait til Nov 15 comes.. that's really when you'll see a lot of serious movement I believe because the players will start losing paychecks and that's when things get real

I personally don't expect to see a season before Christmas but we are getting dangerously close to just cancelling the season outright

Nov15 and when those paychecks stop coming in, that's when the players will be like let's just go play some ball

[23]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Bargaining Agreement Discussion

The players already want to play

Its Hunter and the Union holding them up

[The 24th Letter]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Bargaining Agreement Discussion

Never saw this posted...

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To all NBA players who stand unified against the godless owners, read these words of warning from a former NHL player about the reality of losing an entire season:

"It's not worth it. Get a deal done," former Dallas Stars forward Bill Guerin said during a phone call last week.

There was not a single NHL player during the Great Lockout of 2004-05 who was a bigger proponent of the union's fight than this man. No one believed in the cause more than Guerin, and to hear him admit this is a bit stunning.

"I learned a big lesson: It's not a partnership. It's their league, and you are going to play when they want," he said.

Today, Guerin has hindsight and his experience serves as a giant caution to any player who thinks losing a game, much less an entire season, to this lockout is a good idea. His message is simple: Get what you can; start playing; you are not going to win what you think.

"It is not worth it to any of them to burn games or to burn an entire year. Burning a year was ridiculous," Guerin said. "It wasn't worth me giving up $9 million a year, or 82 games plus the playoffs, then having a crappy year and being bought out.... Guys in the NBA making $15 million or however much better think long and hard about this."
The NBA is stuck in a nasty labor fight with the players' union, and the league already canceled the first couple of weeks of the regular season.
NBA Commissioner David Stern has cautioned that if a deal isn't done soon there will be no games through Christmas, at least.

When reflecting on the NHL lockout that wiped out the entire 2004-05 season, Guerin sounds like a man who had reality shoved down his throat. There is no bitterness in his voice, just truths, which aren't necessarily positive. The truth is Guerin, or any player, really isn't in charge as long as those who are cutting the checks are unified. If it doesn't sound that much different than your job, it's because it's not.

"We could have waited two years and they would have waited us out -- I would have given an extra 2 percent back to play that year," Guerin said. "When you are in the heat of battle, and you are fired up, you don't think what they are doing is right. But it's not about what is right or wrong -- it's their league. It's theirs. I feel, personally, I didn't like guys giving up a year of their career, for what? A few less bucks? Guys are making more money now than they ever have."

Much of what is taking place right now between the players and owners sounds and feels very similar to the early days of the NHL lockout in 2004. Stern has total autonomy. No owner is talking, which means Stern has solidarity and leverage.

"The only thing you can die in the battlefield for in something like this is guaranteed contracts; everything else is nickel-and-dime stuff and it's not worth it," Guerin said.

Guerin, 41, is retired, and works part time as an assistant for the Pittsburgh Penguins.

He lives with his wife and their four children in Long Island, N.Y., and can do so because he took care of his money while he played.
With the economy in a full dog paddle, and the Occupy Wall Street movement gaining traction, neither side appears to be winning the PR battle. No one sides with owners because they embody the "Big Bank/Wall Street" element that has become all that is wrong with the world.

We all know by now that just because they reduce their costs means they will certainly not pass the savings on to the consumer. They pass the savings on to themselves.

Meanwhile, no one cares about guys who play basketball for a six-figure check.

"People say it's OK for ownership to make money because they worked hard to make money and afford to buy a sports franchise," Guerin said. "But the athlete is dumb and good at his sport and fortunate to play sports and make millions."

This reminds me of the Chris Rock bit on Rich vs. Wealth: "Here is the difference," Rock says, "Shaq is rich. The man that signs his check is wealthy. I ain't talking about rich, I'm talking about wealth."

This stupid thing could end today, tomorrow, next month or whenever.
Most of us have problems that don't compare so we don't care about this. For the vast majority of us, the NBA is a luxury rather than a need. We don't really need the NBA, because it's just a movie.

Guerin sounds like a man who learned this lesson, and one of the many truths that exist in our world.
"For so long, I thought so long and hard about it," he said. "But when you think about it, I tell guys it wasn't worth it."

[Rocky]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Bargaining Agreement Discussion

True, which is what gets me.....

They worked out most of the system issues that would increase the supposed competitve balance they were so called seeking....so to cancel the season b\c of this sticking point is pure greed.

and this is who people are rolling with.....

There are still not a hard cap, there are still guaranteed contracts, there is no still no major franchise tag (that we know of)....and to most observers, if the owners really wanted to go for the jugular and get these concessions, they would ultimately get them. I'm not on any side but I am smart enough to realize that this is the best deal the players are going to get.

You're right man, it is greed on both sides...but unfortunately for the players the greedy people with the most money usually win. That's the REALITY...and the sooner the players accept it...the sooner we can see some basketball.

[VanCitySportsGuy]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Bargaining Agreement Discussion

Fisher sent Jason Whitlock a letter threatening to sue him over his article. Whitlock said he is speaking the truth so he's not going to retract his story.

Kinda sad it's November and this is the kind of basketball related stuff we are talking about.

[OSUFan_88]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Bargaining Agreement Discussion

Opening Night was supposed to be tonight.

Instead, both teams were in court rather than on it.

**** this lockout.

[goh]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Bargaining Agreement Discussion

Los Angeles is so peaceful and quiet. It's really quite nice.

No love for the Kings?

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7179759/nba-lockout-nbpa-meet-thursday-discuss-move-sources-say

Video says the owners are getting behind cancelling the season and it'll drop to 46. They've been very kind in all this so far. I would've gone straight cut throat on them already.