NBA Lockout and Collective Bargaining Agreement Discussion

[The 24th Letter]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

He was definitely reaching on some things...

but whats true in there....is definitely true...whether you want to ignore it or not....
you can honestly write a player article just as long....something tells me it wouldnt get any pushback though

at the end of the day, its on the players to fold....its really not about how fair it is..

[TheMatrix31]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

I hate the players even more BECAUSE they're making me support Stern and Sarver.

Utterly loathsome.

[23]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

He was definitely reaching on some things...

but whats true in there....is definitely true...whether you want to ignore it or not....
you can honestly write a player article just as long....something tells me it wouldnt get any pushback though

at the end of the day, its on the players to fold....its really not about how fair it is..

Yeah he's reaching

He just told us that the owners are rich

Thats a super - DUH right there

They've lost money, thats known, but this is not why the NBA is where it is right now, its here because someone doesn't know when they dont have a leg to stand on and would rather nix anything in the realm of common sense just to keep their pride up

Vince Carter said it's over

[aholbert32]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

He was definitely reaching on some things...

but whats true in there....is definitely true...whether you want to ignore it or not....
you can honestly write a player article just as long....something tells me it wouldnt get any pushback though

at the end of the day, its on the players to fold....its really not about how fair it is..

What was true? Other than the stuff about Sterling (which has no bearing on the CBA) what else was true?

[WTF]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

I don't understand how these reporters keep saying that the owners wouldn't show the books to the union... I stopped reading the article right there.

The owners have, Like Aaron said. Stop trying to spin it off like they're 100% fabricating that they're losing money. Granted, some of their claims may have been fluff.. but the Union have seen the books, and even conceded that they were showing a loss. Their attorneys (Players Assoc) have seen the books... Billy Hunter has seen the books. Unsure if the players have seen them, but their representatives and lawyers have seen the books.

What's so hard to understand? Anyone who is going to post an article, should at least know a little bit about what's going on.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

To be fair to 24th, we all know WHY the NBA is where they are.

We just don't understand why we are STILL here at this point when they should be getting reading for Opening Night in a week instead. That's the part that makes no sense at all.

[23]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

I think thats more of a blog than it is like a real reporter story

That guy was way off into the bias with that, and no professional editor would allow his paper or site to call any of his readers imbeciles lol

[cjonesfan921]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

I'll go through all of his points.

1)

The owners are blatantly lying about how much money they’re losing. How do we know? They won’t show anyone their books.

They COULD be lying, but you don't know this for sure. He is making a huge assumption and passing it as factual.

2)

Even if some of the teams are losing money on paper, there’s a good chance it’s in a large part due to playing numbers with how much rent they pay to themselves in the arenas many of the teams own.

Again, this is a huge assumption. I'm an accountant and yes, numbers can, and always have, been tinkered with. I would say 50% of my clients purposely run losses. However, I know this as a fact, he doesn't, he is assuming. It COULD very well be happening.

The same as #2 for #3-#5.

6)

Owners don’t lose money by owning a team.

Another assumption, this man is consistent at least. You can't just take one example and generalize. Aholbert had a nice rebuttal to this point.

7)

In case you didn’t notice, there’s a huge recession going on that has been drilling a lot of businesses since 2007 (the Dow Jones still hasn’t come within 1000 points of where it was that year). Even if teams are legitimately losing money and not just through accounting trickery, that’s part of the normal business cycle that has been hurting thousands of large companies in the past four years. Changing the future system based on what’s happening now by taking from the workers in order to guarantee profits for the guy at the very top is not something anyone should support, no matter what the specific details are.

And all these large companies have had numerous layoffs and cutbacks. This is how business works. NBA is a business. If the NBA is not making money,(relatively speaking) then changes to the business model will be made. They (owners) will develop a model that assures a profit at the year end. This is commonplace in the business world.

8)

Correct me if I’m wrong, but shouldn’t a business have to actually make some good decisions to be guaranteed profits? We all recognize that there are plenty of teams that make stupid decision after stupid decision, usually just to make a short-term profit without an eye on the long-term success of the franchise (Exhibit A: Robert Sarver of the Suns), so I can’t say I feel real sympathetic when I find out that those same teams claim to be losing money. Don’t go signing non-All Stars like Rudy Gay to max contracts before complaining you can’t make money every year.

Yes, a business should make intelligent decisions. No, they should not be bailed out. No, this is not rewarding them for making mistakes. The system was broken, clearly. Teams, some of them, had to overspend to get someone to come to them. Players were running the league, unfortunately. They had a great CBA and took advantage, as well they should. However, as mentioned earlier, they will get the short end here, at least that's how it will play out right now.

Same, as above, for #9.

Aholbert covered #10-#11 very nicely.

#12 seems a lot more like envy than anything else. Yes, it would be awesome to own the Knicks, I probably would get a 'boner' but that doesn't mean I wouldn't want to make a profit. It's a business.

13)

You like the league because of the players, not because of the owners.

I like my team and the sport of basketball. Yes, the players are the ones playing it, but, I have learned, 95% of these guys don't give a damn about us, the fans. While people say neither do the owners, the owners are smart enough to realize, at least, that they need the fans.

14)

Similarly, almost all of the owners ever were born with a giant silver spoon in their mouths while the vast majority of the players were born into middle- or low-income households and actually had to work hard to get where they are.

Again, there is definitely some envy here. Also, I know a ton of people who work hard and can barely feed their family. A lot of these players don't know what hard work is. The average person will go through college and have an insane amount of debt that won't be paid off 'till later on in life, heavy burden. I, and am sure many others, don't sympathize with players who got, most of them, a free education just because they had some height and could dribble a ball.

15)

Some fans have an issue with “thuggish” players making so much money because they get arrested occasionally for having guns, marijuana, or whatever on them. Trust me, the players’ indiscretions have nothing on the stuff many of the owners have been charged with and accused of – just go read up on Clippers’ owner Donald Sterling’s endless list of racist and sexist dealings in his professional life and tell me you got a problem with Michael Beasley’s recreational weed habit.

So, he wants to discredit the owners because they were spoon-fed according to him, but also wants us to forget about the players upbringing, hypocrisy.

16)

This can be a little tricky to understand, but there really is no reason owners should be losing money if the players are always taking home 57% of the Basketball Related Income. That is a set percentage, meaning for years the owners have been getting right around 43% of all BRI, and that BRI total keeps going up each year. So if the owners are always making 43% of the moolah, and that moolah keeps getting bigger (ticket sales up, TV viewership up, more visibility overseas, etc.), why are they now losing money? The only way owners could collectively be in the red is if they’re now mishandling that 43%, which seems to be a perfect reason to open the books and see what they’re doing with it

I am now convinced this man is an idiot. Earlier he acknowledges the tough economic times, and now he is completely disregarding it in his assessment. I'm sure the income from the BRI grew every year. The point is, the expenses the owners endured, outgrew that income. (extremely feasible, considering the times, hell, just look at us in the real world, our expenses are sky rocketing.) Also, another point aholbert brought up, inflation. Anyway, you guys get the idea.

17)

The owners are not negotiating in good faith.

-____-


That is all.

[The 24th Letter]

What was true? Other than the stuff about Sterling (which has no bearing on the CBA) what else was true?

Im not sure what you mean?

You just said "Im not saying its fair but...."

Its clear the owners have as much of a hand in this crap as the players, I thought we established that a while back.

We all know that its in the players hands now....the majority of us should get that....but I thought we were off the whole owners are saints thing 10 pages ago lol

[cjonesfan921]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

I don't understand how these reporters keep saying that the owners wouldn't show the books to the union... I stopped reading the article right there.

The owners have, Like Aaron said. Stop trying to spin it off like they're 100% fabricating that they're losing money. Granted, some of their claims may have been fluff.. but the Union have seen the books, and even conceded that they were showing a loss. Their attorneys (Players Assoc) have seen the books... Billy Hunter has seen the books. Unsure if the players have seen them, but their representatives and lawyers have seen the books.

What's so hard to understand? Anyone who is going to post an article, should at least know a little bit about what's going on.

Honestly, I would say 98% of the players wouldn't know what to look for, if given the 'books' to look at for themselves.

[The 24th Letter]

apparantley not, lol

[mvb34]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

The idiot Shawn Marion was talking the other day about getting an unemployment check in the mail for his Grandma or relative or something.

Why is anybody related to Shawn Marion collecting unemployment checks?

Shouldnt those go to people who actually, like, need it? SMH.

Why not? Shawm Marion is employed not them... If I had high Sports contract the only person I'll hooked would be my momma..

[aholbert32]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

Im not sure what you mean?

You just said "Im not saying its fair but...."

Its clear the owners have as much of a hand in this crap as the players, I thought we established that a while back.

We all know that its in the players hands now....the majority of us should get that....but I thought we were off the whole owners are saints thing 10 pages ago lol

You said "Whats true in there....is definitely true". I'm asking what was true in that article. He lied about the books. His recession analysis is poor. Everything else has nothing to do with the CBA.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

Most of that stuff is about what you want to believe,

but as far as the equal greed, negotiation tactics and bad decision making I completely agree....

[Dice]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

Well, I re-iterate my stance. I'm like most of you where I do want to see basketball this year. And it's no surprise that I'm pro-player, despite the fact that they have painted themselves in a corner. They do have a part in this mess BUT not as much as the owners.

And to give you another truth about me, I hate owners and will not side with them at all. Even if by some miraculous event of the players taking it up the rear end will effectively end the lockout, I could give a **** about them. Even at the expense of gaining an NBA season. There may be one or two owners I can respect BUT overall they are scum.

NOW, do I think the player will win this? If I was a betting man, No. There ship has sailed. BUT if I was the union, I’d use legal leverage as well. May not work, but heck right now you’d try anything. The owners to me aren’t bargaining in good faith. Stern is a liar as well as Silver. And the owners aren’t saying nothing because nothing but lies will be coming out of their mouths as well.

NOW we can call Hunter and Fisher liars as well, but what they’re lying about is how much of an *** kicking their getting and making it seem that it’s not all that bad and they still have options. When in reality, you’re taking a beating like Tyson on Spinks and your options are just about exhausted.

I myself think that if the legal battle does not go the way of the players, we won’t see an NBA season.

But here’s something that I’m going to predict. Let’s say there is a deal this year and they save the season, I’m willing to bet that the deal will not be in favor of the owners and here why.

The owners are very adamant about getting a deal in their favor, even at the expense of losing a season. While all along, the original plan WAS TO LOSE A SEASON. NOW in the other corner, you got the superstars. The 13 or so players who’s running the union and there not backing down as well. Here’s the scenario, those superstars aren’t going to be hurting anytime soon financially. They can keep up with the finances just as long as the owners can. And for those who keep using the phrase, ‘the players losing money’, NO ONE IS LOOSING MONEY. MISSING MONEY will be the appropriate term. But no one is going into the players bank accounts and subtracting money they already have. Same with the owners. Those superstars who are standing their ground know that they are the ones who have the leverage and not union as a whole. While the lower tier players will suffer, it’s basically a moot point for them to break ranks and cross the union lines. No one is going to care if a guy like Kelvin Martin or Keith Bogans is just ready to play and sign any deal that’ll get them on the court. Because it’s not about them, it’s about the superstars and the owners know that. OK, so if the lower tier players break ranks and cut their own deal then so what? What good will the NBA be if your best stars are CJ Watson or JJ Reddick? Are you going to watch the NBA without the best players on the planet? Kobe, LeBron, Melo and Wade know they hold the cards and have leverage. Why do you think they keep pumping this world tour deal? There telling you that they are the NBA and if they want to bust the union ranks then go right ahead. BUT if your NBA is consisting of Matt Barnes as the best player for the Lakers and Landry Fields as the best player for the Knicks, then go right ahead. The NBA will not be the same if those 13 players are not playing. And if anybody thinks different is living in a fantasy world.

And trust me, those superstars will not be pan handling in your local neighborhood anytime soon just because they don’t have a place in the NBA. Those guys will be just fine. Will they not make as much? Not even close. BUT those guys could retire now and still live comfortably. So in all, the NBA is worthless without the superstars. They can try to hold out as long as they can to see if a new crop of superstars emerge from the college ranks but LeBron has some years to go before he’s taken off the mantle of one of the best players in the world. Wade and Kobe might be a little on the decline. BUT guys like Rose, Durant and Howard are some of the best players on the planet now and in their early 20’s. So good luck finding some college players better than them.