2012 NBA Draft Discussion

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  • Yeah...THAT Guy
    Once in a Lifetime Memory
    • Dec 2006
    • 17294

    #91
    Re: 2012 NBA Draft Discussion

    Originally posted by jeebs9
    So this Anthnoy Davis guy is the next big thing. When a SF has a 5 inch growth jump. You have a scary player.

    But again... guys I don't believe in Harrison Barnes one bit. He is not a top 5 player. I just don't see what other people are talking about. Marvin Williams 2.0
    I think Barnes style is very similar to a less-emotional today's Paul Pierce (meaning the way Pierce plays today but with less emotion if that makes sense).

    And yeah, I think Fab will be either an early 2nd round or late 1st round pick if he does a very good job in the combine, but I don't see anyway he can come back to Syracuse. This city hates his guts, especially now that the rumor going around is that it wasn't academics or a drug test that got him failed, but something as avoidable as violating his restraining order from his ex (the one that he broke her car mirror earlier).
    NFL: Bills
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    • Nathan_OS
      MVP
      • Jun 2011
      • 4465

      #92
      Originally posted by Ruff Ryder
      I don't think Thomas Robinson is that raw of a player, especially in comparison to other bigs in this class (Drummond, PJIII). He may lack a perimeter game but I think he'll develop a decent midrange shot. He's tenacious, big, and physical and that will bode well for him in the league. I'm curious about how he'll measure in the combine.

      Tyshawn will get drafted just because the PG class is shallow this year. I don't think he's a pure PG though and I question his ability to run an offense in the NBA. He's also been pretty turnover prone this year.

      Also, I'm not impressed with Barnes either. I don't think he's that athletic, I don't think he can create his own shot either.
      Well Tyshawn didn't play too bad yesterday. I think he can be really good.

      Thomas Robinson can shoot lol. And he could attack from the perimeter. So he'll be tough for guys to guard in the NBA.

      He's also very crafty.

      Dude really looks like a Football player

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      • ProfessaPackMan
        Bamma
        • Mar 2008
        • 63852

        #93
        Re: 2012 NBA Draft Discussion

        Originally posted by Ruff Ryder
        I don't think Thomas Robinson is that raw of a player, especially in comparison to other bigs in this class (Drummond, PJIII). He may lack a perimeter game but I think he'll develop a decent midrange shot. He's tenacious, big, and physical and that will bode well for him in the league. I'm curious about how he'll measure in the combine.

        Tyshawn will get drafted just because the PG class is shallow this year. I don't think he's a pure PG though and I question his ability to run an offense in the NBA. He's also been pretty turnover prone this year.

        Also, I'm not impressed with Barnes either. I don't think he's that athletic, I don't think he can create his own shot either.
        Tyshawn reminds me of Sherron Collins a little bit.
        #RespectTheCulture

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        • TheBrothers24
          SD/LA Chargers?
          • Sep 2007
          • 1915

          #94
          Re: 2012 NBA Draft Discussion

          Fab Melo= Haseem Thabeet. Maybe because I only watched the Cuse games that were on tv but I don't see how he is any different from Thabeet. I guess the benefit is teams won't wast a 1st round pick on him

          Dion Waiters= Bigger/slower version of Ben Gordon. Not a starter but more than capable of being a 6th man and giving you about 15 a game off the bench.

          Harrison Barnes= Bigger version of Rip hamilton. Not a franchise player by any means(there may be only 3 in this draft Davis, Kidd- Gilchrist & Robinson). Draft Barnes as a complementary player who you can get open shots for. After watching every game for two years, it's safe to say he will never be a one on one player but his jumper will get him drafted in the top of this draft. He will look great at the combine because he games is suited for drills. Do not expect him to be the face of the franchise because he doesn't have the personality for that. He's the Kobe Bryant "keeps to himself" type but without the whole "I'm an *******" part.
          "This is for all of my peoples who understand and truly recognize. Some won't get it and for that i won't apologize"- Talib Kweli

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          • Nathan_OS
            MVP
            • Jun 2011
            • 4465

            #95
            Originally posted by TheBrothers24
            Fab Melo= Haseem Thabeet. Maybe because I only watched the Cuse games that were on tv but I don't see how he is any different from Thabeet. I guess the benefit is teams won't wast a 1st round pick on him

            Dion Waiters= Bigger/slower version of Ben Gordon. Not a starter but more than capable of being a 6th man and giving you about 15 a game off the bench.

            Harrison Barnes= Bigger version of Rip hamilton. Not a franchise player by any means(there may be only 3 in this draft Davis, Kidd- Gilchrist & Robinson). Draft Barnes as a complementary player who you can get open shots for. After watching every game for two years, it's safe to say he will never be a one on one player but his jumper will get him drafted in the top of this draft. He will look great at the combine because he games is suited for drills. Do not expect him to be the face of the franchise because he doesn't have the personality for that. He's the Kobe Bryant "keeps to himself" type but without the whole "I'm an *******" part.
            Lol if he's anyway alike with Kobe he must be good.

            I think you guys are undermining this kid. He could really be good

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            • ProfessaPackMan
              Bamma
              • Mar 2008
              • 63852

              #96
              Re: 2012 NBA Draft Discussion

              Nobody is saying he's not going to be any good. Just saying he's not going to be as great in the Pros as people once thought he would.

              And am I the only one who thinks the NBA Combine is really overrated?
              #RespectTheCulture

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              • Yeah...THAT Guy
                Once in a Lifetime Memory
                • Dec 2006
                • 17294

                #97
                Re: 2012 NBA Draft Discussion

                Originally posted by TheBrothers24
                Fab Melo= Haseem Thabeet. Maybe because I only watched the Cuse games that were on tv but I don't see how he is any different from Thabeet. I guess the benefit is teams won't wast a 1st round pick on him

                Dion Waiters= Bigger/slower version of Ben Gordon. Not a starter but more than capable of being a 6th man and giving you about 15 a game off the bench.
                [AlexBrady]
                I think Melo is more coordinated than Thabeet and seems to be a legitimately good defender rather than just someone that has a huge size advantage. Still a big time work in progress, but he's shown pretty decent development in his game in all aspects from last year to this year. Started adding a little bit of a shot from the free throw line, his free throws got substantially better as the season went on, starting to get better at reading the defense, does an excellent job of sliding into help position and taking charges, etc.

                Waiters has bust all over him in my opinion. Played like absolute crap for msot of the season this year, shaky jumpshot + awful mechanics, undersized SG/not good enough handles for a PG, flat out bad zone defender, not a willing passer, falls in love with the jumpshot, forces things way too often, etc.

                [/AlexBrady]
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                • Bad_Intentions
                  All Star
                  • Oct 2002
                  • 5392

                  #98
                  Re: 2012 NBA Draft Discussion

                  Originally posted by Yeah...THAT Guy
                  I think Barnes style is very similar to a less-emotional today's Paul Pierce (meaning the way Pierce plays today but with less emotion if that makes sense).
                  What scares me about Barnes is i'm not confident in his ability to get his own shot in the NBA. His stock has really plummeted this year.

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                  • TheBrothers24
                    SD/LA Chargers?
                    • Sep 2007
                    • 1915

                    #99
                    Re: 2012 NBA Draft Discussion

                    Originally posted by Nathan_OS
                    Lol if he's anyway alike with Kobe he must be good.

                    I think you guys are undermining this kid. He could really be good

                    Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk
                    He could be really good but not franchise star good. He will more than likely average between 16-20 his whole career which is good for a #2 or #3 option at the SF. He is average at best defensively & rarely tries to fight through screens when guarding shooters. He doesn't rebound very well & that is not something you just wake up one night and develop in the pros. He is a spot up shooter with great work ethic(which works in his favor). Will that translate into what is expected of a top pick? Guess we will find out.

                    Originally posted by ProfessaPackMan
                    Nobody is saying he's not going to be any good. Just saying he's not going to be as great in the Pros as people once thought he would.

                    And am I the only one who thinks the NBA Combine is really overrated?
                    I do as well but a lot of scouts don't & base their decisions off them.
                    "This is for all of my peoples who understand and truly recognize. Some won't get it and for that i won't apologize"- Talib Kweli

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                    • Bad_Intentions
                      All Star
                      • Oct 2002
                      • 5392

                      #100
                      Re: 2012 NBA Draft Discussion

                      Barnes = Danny Granger?

                      What about UNC's other players? Who's declaring? Marshall, Henson, even i've heard some say McAdoo should come out? What's the deal unc fans?

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                      • TheBrothers24
                        SD/LA Chargers?
                        • Sep 2007
                        • 1915

                        #101
                        Re: 2012 NBA Draft Discussion

                        Originally posted by Yeah...THAT Guy
                        [AlexBrady]
                        I think Melo is more coordinated than Thabeet and seems to be a legitimately good defender rather than just someone that has a huge size advantage. Still a big time work in progress, but he's shown pretty decent development in his game in all aspects from last year to this year. Started adding a little bit of a shot from the free throw line, his free throws got substantially better as the season went on, starting to get better at reading the defense, does an excellent job of sliding into help position and taking charges, etc.

                        Waiters has bust all over him in my opinion. Played like absolute crap for msot of the season this year, shaky jumpshot + awful mechanics, undersized SG/not good enough handles for a PG, flat out bad zone defender, not a willing passer, falls in love with the jumpshot, forces things way too often, etc.

                        [/AlexBrady]
                        So you agree with him that Melo is a good defender but work in progress on the offensive end? How is that any different from Thabeet? Did Thabeet not show improvement in his game while at UCONN? I'm being serious because I don't follow the Big East besides what games come on ESPN.

                        AS for Waiters, everything he described is Ben Gordon. Gordond did and does now all those negatives he wrote about Waiters. Also I thought Waiters was the best player for you guys this year? That's why I compared them.

                        I know you follow Cuse so I'm just trying to get an understanding from the limited games I saw them play.
                        "This is for all of my peoples who understand and truly recognize. Some won't get it and for that i won't apologize"- Talib Kweli

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                        • Yeah...THAT Guy
                          Once in a Lifetime Memory
                          • Dec 2006
                          • 17294

                          #102
                          Re: 2012 NBA Draft Discussion

                          Originally posted by TheBrothers24
                          So you agree with him that Melo is a good defender but work in progress on the offensive end? How is that any different from Thabeet? Did Thabeet not show improvement in his game while at UCONN? I'm being serious because I don't follow the Big East besides what games come on ESPN.

                          AS for Waiters, everything he described is Ben Gordon. Gordond did and does now all those negatives he wrote about Waiters. Also I thought Waiters was the best player for you guys this year? That's why I compared them.

                          I know you follow Cuse so I'm just trying to get an understanding from the limited games I saw them play.
                          Regarding the Fab vs. Thabeet comparison, I think Fab is more of a legitimately good defender, whereas Thabeet was a decent defender, but his height and length allowed him to get away with some bad habits on both ends. Fab (this year, definitely not last year) runs the floor much better than Thabeet did. I mean, there were plenty of times this year where Fab would outrun the other team's guards and pick up easy points that way if Waiters or Joseph or Scoop missed a layup. And Thabeet really didn't do anything offensively besides seal guys on his hip and get that lob pass over the top for some layups. While most of Fab's points this year came on alley oops and tip-in's, he showed flashes of being able to shoot from the elbows, flashed a hook shot and turn around fadeaway on some rare occasions, and displayed a pretty good ability to find cutters (but REALLY has to work on actually making the pass, because he had a lot of passes sail out of bounds). If he gets his head on straight, he has a lot of potential, much like Thabeet did, but I think he's a few steps ahead of Thabeet as far as skill/fundamentals go, but obviously Thabeet had that rare size that you don't see very often.

                          Waiters was by far our most talented player. Before Fab was suspended for the first time, he was shooting 51% from the floor, somewhere around 40% from 3, and averaging like 15 per game. But once Fab got suspended, he shot around 34% from the floor the rest of the year and in the 20s from 3 point range I believe. He started settling for jumpers way too often and didn't let the game just come to him anymore. He finally figured it out in the Big East tournament where he carried us again, but that was it. Him and Southerland were both flat out awful for the majority of the season. It was Joseph, CJ Fair, Fab, and Scoop that held down the fort pretty consistently. Everyone fell in love with Waiters because he would jump a passing lane and get a steal and then have a highlight reel dunk. He's a guy that seems to have a knack for making things happen, and he loves the pressure. But yeah, for probably over half the season, he was legitimately terrible in just about every way, and when he isn't jumping lanes and getting steals, he's getting caught out of position in the zone and giving up wide open 3 after wide open 3 (Scoop was even worse because he did that while not even attempting to jump passing lanes lol).

                          Edit: It's really amazing how far Fab came in two seasons. It's night and day. But yeah, there's a lot of untapped potential there. I still remember in one of his first games with Syracuse, he caught the ball just inside the 3 point line, ripped to his left, dribbled twice and then hop stepped to the right before turning it over. But just the fact that we had a guy that's a legit 7 footer attempting a move that you really only see from guards was pretty awesome. I was much higher on Fab in his freshman season than most of the people here at Syracuse that wanted to kill the guy.

                          Edit x2: And to clarify, while I think Waiters was our most talented player this year, just for the record, I think Michael Carter-Williams will end up being a much better player. I think he'll end up being a top 3 PG in school history by the time he's done here. His feel for the game is flat out incredible for a freshman, and he was our 2nd best perimeter defender this year behind Triche, 2nd best shooter behind Triche (maybe 3rd behind Scoop but Scoop is very hot and cold), 2nd best midrange game behind Triche, and he's our best passer and most willing passer too. He's going to be a stud next year. Everyone at Syracuse fully expects him to be our starting PG and that he'll likely be the guy that makes our team go.
                          Last edited by Yeah...THAT Guy; 03-26-2012, 03:15 PM.
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                          • PlusTheHarm
                            Pro
                            • Jan 2012
                            • 506

                            #103
                            Re: 2012 NBA Draft Discussion

                            I think saying he has bust written all over him is a little harsh, but I get what you're saying. Might not have been a career year, and it was already speculated that he'd be moving on, but he has shown his ability to buy in when he decided to stay, come off the bench, and play within the system. I think his potential is quite high, not going to suggest he is capable of becoming an elite player in the league (cause he won't) but that talent could have him providing a solid option as a role player. Might not have been the prettiest of years, statistically or not, but it wasn't either for a lot of the Orange and the team as a whole. Was a strange year considering they were coming in with one of their best classes. It's the talent level, the potential, that drives half these guys through the draft anyways. Too early to call him a bust, and I think it's pretty encouraging to see him play within the system this year. Dude could've bolted, played somewhere else a year and moved on, but didn't. That counts for something in my mind and I know it wasn't like he couldn't have gone somewhere else.

                            As for Fab ... big strides compared to last year, but still remains to be seen if he can develop any legitimate offense. Always fun to see how guys transition and half of these cats roll in on potential anyways, so not sure why this is any different. The risky big man. Agreed on the 2nd, be shocked if he went 1st.

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                            • jfsolo
                              Live Action, please?
                              • May 2003
                              • 12965

                              #104
                              Re: 2012 NBA Draft Discussion

                              Originally posted by OSUFan_88
                              Harrison Barnes would do well to stay in another year.

                              He needs to learn some go to moves before anyone would draft him in the top ten. I think if he does declare and gets drafted in the top ten, some team will be very disappointed with him.

                              I don't think that Barnes has the physical tools to improve the aspects of his game that are clearly sub par. I actually think that he should go, because there still seems to be some scouts and GM's that think he's worthy of being picked in the lottery. I personally think that one more year will expose his flaws more and turn him into a late first round selection, which is where he should be drafted, IMO.
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                              • Yeah...THAT Guy
                                Once in a Lifetime Memory
                                • Dec 2006
                                • 17294

                                #105
                                Re: 2012 NBA Draft Discussion

                                Originally posted by PlusTheHarm
                                I think saying he has bust written all over him is a little harsh, but I get what you're saying. Might not have been a career year, and it was already speculated that he'd be moving on, but he has shown his ability to buy in when he decided to stay, come off the bench, and play within the system. I think his potential is quite high, not going to suggest he is capable of becoming an elite player in the league (cause he won't) but that talent could have him providing a solid option as a role player. Might not have been the prettiest of years, statistically or not, but it wasn't either for a lot of the Orange and the team as a whole. Was a strange year considering they were coming in with one of their best classes. It's the talent level, the potential, that drives half these guys through the draft anyways. Too early to call him a bust, and I think it's pretty encouraging to see him play within the system this year. Dude could've bolted, played somewhere else a year and moved on, but didn't. That counts for something in my mind and I know it wasn't like he couldn't have gone somewhere else.

                                As for Fab ... big strides compared to last year, but still remains to be seen if he can develop any legitimate offense. Always fun to see how guys transition and half of these cats roll in on potential anyways, so not sure why this is any different. The risky big man. Agreed on the 2nd, be shocked if he went 1st.
                                Yeah I think they both have a lot of potential, but I think Waiters will end up getting drafted in the 13-17 range and I don't think an ok role player is living up to the expectations of a border-line lottery pick. Waiters has a LOT of work to do on his game if he wants to be a starter in the NBA in my opinion.
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