2012 NBA Draft Discussion

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  • OSUFan_88
    Outback Jesus
    • Jul 2004
    • 25642

    #121
    Re: 2012 NBA Draft Discussion

    Originally posted by Dice
    And in terms of NBA ready, Kyrie was much of a question mark as Rivers is. The fact that Irving only played 10 games is a question within itself in terms of durability.
    Just to show you how wrong you are.

    Kyrie, in 11 games, scored 17.5 points, had 4.3 assists, shot 52.9% in 27 minutes per game.

    Austin, in 34 games, scored 15.5 points, had 2.1 assists, shot 43.3% in 33.2 minutes per game.

    Kyrie blew away his competition in college and was clearly ready for the NBA, Austin barely even could keep up and clearly is not ready for the NBA.
    Too Old To Game Club

    Urban Meyer is lol.

    Comment

    • ProfessaPackMan
      Bamma
      • Mar 2008
      • 63852

      #122
      Re: 2012 NBA Draft Discussion

      OSU, do you also happen to have the numbers for Seth Curry as well which show the differences between playing with Irving and playing with Rivers?

      I know from watching dook play, Curry/Rivers did not look comfortable playing together at all, especially compared to Irving/Curry.
      #RespectTheCulture

      Comment

      • Dice
        Sitting by the door
        • Jul 2002
        • 6627

        #123
        Re: 2012 NBA Draft Discussion

        Originally posted by OSUFan_88
        Just to show you how wrong you are.

        Kyrie, in 11 games, scored 17.5 points, had 4.3 assists, shot 52.9% in 27 minutes per game.

        Austin, in 34 games, scored 15.5 points, had 2.1 assists, shot 43.3% in 33.2 minutes per game.

        Kyrie blew away his competition in college and was clearly ready for the NBA, Austin barely even could keep up and clearly is not ready for the NBA.
        That's all fine and dandy BUT his numbers was never the question. It was his durability. 11 games doesn't sound like a lot of games. Heck Greg Oden played more games in college than Irving. That right there could raise a red flag. Many raised the argument that 11 games was not enough of a sample size. Who knows what his numbers would have looked like if he's played 30+ games? Yes, the 11 games numbers were good BUT let's not make Irving like he was a 'sure fire' pick last year. It's all relative when it comes to hindsight. I'm glad Irving is blossoming and looks to be the rookie of the year.

        And as far as numbers in college. Russell Westbrook averaged 12 ppg and 4 asst/game and he's one of the better PG's in the league. Rajon Rondo at Kentucky averaged 11 ppg and about 5 apg. Zack Randolph averaged 10 ppg in his one year at MSU and he's one of the better big men in the league.

        So you see what I'm getting at. The numbers don't tell me the whole story. NOW, it's not like this kid is gonna be the number one pick. He'll be projected to be mid-first round, if he drops that low. BUT to measure ones 'readiness' off of numbers is clearly a misleading practice.

        And as far as Austin Rivers and his competition, he did score 29 points and hit the game winner against Kendal Marshall and UNC. A guy who'll be going in the first round as well. So to say he couldn't keep up with the competition is not entirely the case.
        I have more respect for a man who let's me know where he stands, even if he's wrong. Than the one who comes up like an angel and is nothing but a devil. - Malcolm X

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        • Hassan Darkside
          We Here
          • Sep 2003
          • 7561

          #124
          Re: 2012 NBA Draft Discussion

          Originally posted by Dice
          That's all fine and dandy BUT his numbers was never the question. It was his durability. 11 games doesn't sound like a lot of games. Heck Greg Oden played more games in college than Irving. That right there could raise a red flag. Many raised the argument that 11 games was not enough of a sample size. Who knows what his numbers would have looked like if he's played 30+ games? Yes, the 11 games numbers were good BUT let's not make Irving like he was a 'sure fire' pick last year. It's all relative when it comes to hindsight. I'm glad Irving is blossoming and looks to be the rookie of the year.

          And as far as numbers in college. Russell Westbrook averaged 12 ppg and 4 asst/game and he's one of the better PG's in the league. Rajon Rondo at Kentucky averaged 11 ppg and about 5 apg. Zack Randolph averaged 10 ppg in his one year at MSU and he's one of the better big men in the league.

          So you see what I'm getting at. The numbers don't tell me the whole story. NOW, it's not like this kid is gonna be the number one pick. He'll be projected to be mid-first round, if he drops that low. BUT to measure ones 'readiness' off of numbers is clearly a misleading practice.

          And as far as Austin Rivers and his competition, he did score 29 points and hit the game winner against Kendal Marshall and UNC. A guy who'll be going in the first round as well. So to say he couldn't keep up with the competition is not entirely the case.
          So Kyrie didn't look NBA ready just because of his injury history (which still pales in comparison to Oden's) despite playing about just as well after coming back from injury during the toughest stretch in the season?
          [NYK|DAL|VT]
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          • SidVish
            2010,13,15,16 CHAMPS!
            • Apr 2003
            • 11743

            #125
            Re: 2012 NBA Draft Discussion

            I think Kidd-Gilchrist is the second best player in this draft behind Davis. He does everything well. He'll need to work on his jumper but he can attack the basket, score, rebound, and defend. The more I see him the more I like him as an NBA player. He plays both ends of the floor.
            "You got it man. I don't watch hockey." SidVish
            "I thought LeBron James was just going to be another addition to help me score."
            Ricky Davis
            "The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." Albert Einstein

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            • ProfessaPackMan
              Bamma
              • Mar 2008
              • 63852

              #126
              Re: 2012 NBA Draft Discussion

              Yes, the 11 games numbers were good BUT let's not make Irving like he was a 'sure fire' pick last year.
              Ummm, he WAS!!!

              Who else was worthy of going number 1 last year? Kemba Walker? Enes Kanter? Tristian Thompson? Jimmy Butler? MarShon Brooks?? LOL

              Any team would've been a damn fool to not take Kyrie with the top pick(and this before anybody knew he would be playing this well in the NBA)just like any team would be a damn fool to not take Anthony Davis #1, assuming he comes out this year.

              He'll be projected to be mid-first round, if he drops that low. BUT to measure ones 'readiness' off of numbers is clearly a misleading practice.

              And as far as Austin Rivers and his competition, he did score 29 points and hit the game winner against Kendal Marshall and UNC. A guy who'll be going in the first round as well. So to say he couldn't keep up with the competition is not entirely the case.
              Yeah and CJ McCullum dropped 34 on him and bounced him and the rest of the dookies outta that 1st rd too so yeah.

              Again I ask, outside of that one game, what has he shown to make anyone think he'll be even at least a significant contributer in the NBA? He was terribly inconsistent as crap all year, especially in his last 5 games where you're supposed to start playing your best ball, especially if you're considering going pro.

              But oh well, if he wants to go pro then go ahead but I don't think it's arguable that he could certainly do alot better if he stayed another year(aka Top 5) and anybody that watched him play would say the samething.
              #RespectTheCulture

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              • BlueNGold
                Hall Of Fame
                • Aug 2009
                • 21817

                #127
                Re: 2012 NBA Draft Discussion

                I think MKG is who I want the Cavs to draft, assuming they can even get that high in the draft to pick him.

                I've hardly actually seen a lot of these guys in this draft class play, but just from the things I read and whatnot, MKG and Perry Jones seem the most interesting for the Cavs to me.
                Originally posted by bradtxmale
                I like 6 inches. Its not too thin and not too thick. You get the support your body needs.



                Comment

                • Dice
                  Sitting by the door
                  • Jul 2002
                  • 6627

                  #128
                  Re: 2012 NBA Draft Discussion

                  Well, let's just say this. We'll all agree to disagree. I know some of you have questions about Austin and rightly so. BUT just looking at numbers(which wasn't bad) is a very misleading way of scouting someones readiness. I've posted numbers of some good NBA players who had mediocre numbers in college and no one has argued them down.

                  I myself wasn't saying that Irving wasn't NBA ready BUT it wasn't like he was without question marks. It wasn't like he was the 'sure fire' guy to be number one. That's all I was saying about Irving.

                  Whether we think Austin Rivers is ready or not, none of us will know until he suits up next year in an NBA uniform and starts playing. Around this time next year, we'll see who was correct.
                  I have more respect for a man who let's me know where he stands, even if he's wrong. Than the one who comes up like an angel and is nothing but a devil. - Malcolm X

                  Comment

                  • BleacherBum2310
                    All Star
                    • Aug 2010
                    • 7107

                    #129
                    Re: 2012 NBA Draft Discussion

                    Umm, Derrick Williams? I'd say Kyrie was the majority decision as the 1st pick. I wouldn't say sure fire as well.

                    Also On Rivers, he won't be the 1st guy to be drafted on his potential and won't be the last.
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                    • Dice
                      Sitting by the door
                      • Jul 2002
                      • 6627

                      #130
                      Re: 2012 NBA Draft Discussion

                      Originally posted by ProfessaPackMan
                      Ummm, he WAS!!!

                      Who else was worthy of going number 1 last year? Kemba Walker? Enes Kanter? Tristian Thompson? Jimmy Butler? MarShon Brooks?? LOL
                      I guess you missed the guy who was the second pick in the draft that scored 34 against Duke and bounced them out of the tournament.
                      I have more respect for a man who let's me know where he stands, even if he's wrong. Than the one who comes up like an angel and is nothing but a devil. - Malcolm X

                      Comment

                      • OSUFan_88
                        Outback Jesus
                        • Jul 2004
                        • 25642

                        #131
                        Re: 2012 NBA Draft Discussion

                        Only people who watched just the Tournament thought Williams should have gone number one. Williams always has been and will be a guy without a position in the NBA.

                        As for Seth Curry, there was no major difference between his year with Rivers and with Irving other than his 3pt % was 5% higher with Irving.
                        Too Old To Game Club

                        Urban Meyer is lol.

                        Comment

                        • ProfessaPackMan
                          Bamma
                          • Mar 2008
                          • 63852

                          #132
                          Re: 2012 NBA Draft Discussion

                          Not at all because nobody still considered taking him over Kyrie, outside of maybe 2-3 people(who basically ONLY watched him in the NCAAs last year). Not to mention, Kyrie had the bigger upside out of the two(which in the NBA Draft, upside >.)so yeah, he was a sure fire pick.

                          And even with Kyrie missing all those games, you've never anything about him being drafted anywhere other than 1.
                          #RespectTheCulture

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                          • Dice
                            Sitting by the door
                            • Jul 2002
                            • 6627

                            #133
                            Re: 2012 NBA Draft Discussion

                            So I guess scouts don't watch the tournament?

                            And I know what your getting at because sometimes just basing a player off the tournament can be misleading as well. BUT it's not like they totally ignore it.

                            And it's not like Williams was crap in the regular season. He did have 19/8 numbers. BUT that's those nasty numbers again. And just as OSU touched on, Williams issue on why he wasn't the number one pick was that he was a tweener. Nothing to do with his stats, which was pretty damn good. If Williams was 6'10 or 6'11, I would have pegged him as the number one pick.
                            I have more respect for a man who let's me know where he stands, even if he's wrong. Than the one who comes up like an angel and is nothing but a devil. - Malcolm X

                            Comment

                            • OSUFan_88
                              Outback Jesus
                              • Jul 2004
                              • 25642

                              #134
                              Re: 2012 NBA Draft Discussion

                              Originally posted by ProfessaPackMan
                              Not at all because nobody still considered taking him over Kyrie, outside of maybe 2-3 people(who basically ONLY watched him in the NCAAs last year). Not to mention, Kyrie had the bigger upside out of the two(which in the NBA Draft, upside >.)so yeah, he was a sure fire pick.

                              And even with Kyrie missing all those games, you've never anything about him being drafted anywhere other than 1.
                              Pack, I'm not trying to correct you or anything, but you should probably go back and read the 2011 draft discussion. There were a ton of people who thought the Cavaliers were idiots for not drafting Williams and Knight.
                              Too Old To Game Club

                              Urban Meyer is lol.

                              Comment

                              • Dice
                                Sitting by the door
                                • Jul 2002
                                • 6627

                                #135
                                Re: 2012 NBA Draft Discussion

                                It's almost the same argument from 2008 when some thought the Bulls were crazy for drafting Derrick Rose and not Michael Beasley claiming they already had a point guard in Kirk Hinrich. Yeah, right
                                I have more respect for a man who let's me know where he stands, even if he's wrong. Than the one who comes up like an angel and is nothing but a devil. - Malcolm X

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