Dwyane Wade vs Reggie Miller?

[TajDeni]

Re: Dwyane Wade vs Reggie Miller?

its obvious that alot of folks here have a lack of appreciation for reggie. which is their right to i suppose...

i mean since when was a player considered to be a franchise player who only has been in the nba for 9yrs and is 30yrs of aga consider past his prime?

ill tell you the real story....

b4 lebron showed up on team there were a growing number of fans (not me) who thought wade was the best player in the league. better than kobe, better than lebron. just that wade was on a bad team. (again not me)

but then a funny thing happened, lebron actually played side by side with wade on the same court night in and night out, and ppl started to realise beyond a shadow of a doubt that he this lebron guy is way better than this wade guy. it was kinda hard to tell from a far but up close yup its pretty clear cut.

it was only then that folks started saying that wade was past his prime to make excuses for the fact that wade dont look so all-time great standing next to a player who actually is all-time great. so now we have all this bs talk about how wade is past his prime 9yrs into his career. ok!

ftr, wade says physically he's never felt better and that his knee is 100% healed after having surgery on it. but guess that doesnt matter tho, since according to yall he's past his prime anyways.

[PrettyT11]

Re: Dwyane Wade vs Reggie Miller?

We have different forms of measurements. You need awards, I prefer wins.

Cool. Later.

Now this is funny. So this is what you try to go to when you have no answer?? So let's go about it your way and look at the guys I listed.Last I checked Hakeem has two titles and won both of those in the years you selected. Shaq has multiple titles and knocked Reggie out of the playoffs in one of the years you listed. Robinson was multiple titles and went to the WCF in one of those years mentioned. Stockton and Malone have multiple finals and made the WCF in the other year you mentioned. Ewing knocked Reggie out to get to the finals in one of those years. Pippen has multiple titles. Barkley has a finals on his resume. Kemp and Payton have a finals. Penny has a finals and knocked Reggie out to get there. So not only do those guys have the wins they also have the awards too. So again who of those guys was Reggie better than??

[DukeC]

Re: Dwyane Wade vs Reggie Miller?

its obvious that alot of folks here have a lack of appreciation for reggie. which is their right to i suppose...

i mean since when was a player considered to be a franchise player who only has been in the nba for 9yrs and is 30yrs of aga consider past his prime?

ill tell you the real story....

b4 lebron showed up on team there were a growing number of fans (not me) who thought wade was the best player in the league. better than kobe, better than lebron. just that wade was on a bad team. (again not me)

but then a funny thing happened, lebron actually played side by side with wade on the same court night in and night out, and ppl started to realise beyond a shadow of a doubt that he this lebron guy is way better than this wade guy. it was kinda hard to tell from a far but up close yup its pretty clear cut.

it was only then that folks started saying that wade was past his prime to make excuses for the fact that wade dont look so all-time great standing next to a player who actually is all-time great. so now we have all this bs talk about how wade is past his prime 9yrs into his career. ok!

ftr, wade says physically he's never felt better and that his knee is 100% healed after having surgery on it. but guess that doesnt matter tho, since according to yall he's past his prime anyways.

WHOA WHOA WHOA. WHOA.

Wade has been playing with Lebron the past 2 years.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html

He put up 25,5 and 6 his first year with Lebron. This was when they were going back and forth taking turns. He took 18 shots per game that season and was fully healthy IMO.

Then when Lebron started orchestrating more of the offense Wade averaged:

22, 5, and 5. He only took 17 shots per game.

With the best player in the league on his team....and injury riddled (He missed 17 regular season games including some of the playoffs I think).

So...yeah...Wade is still an all time great.

[InthePaint]

Re: Dwyane Wade vs Reggie Miller?

Now this is funny. So this is what you try to go to when you have no answer?? So let's go about it your way and look at the guys I listed.Last I checked Hakeem has two titles and won both of those in the years you selected. Shaq has multiple titles and knocked Reggie out of the playoffs in one of the years you listed. Robinson was multiple titles and went to the WCF in one of those years mentioned. Stockton and Malone have multiple finals and made the WCF in the other year you mentioned. Ewing knocked Reggie out to get to the finals in one of those years. Pippen has multiple titles. Barkley has a finals on his resume. Kemp and Payton have a finals. Penny has a finals and knocked Reggie out to get there. So not only do those guys have the wins they also have the awards too. So again who of those guys was Reggie better than??

In 1994/95 Reggie Miller was better than Patrick Ewing.
Again.

The Ewing that scored one point in game 3 vs the Pacers to lose 4-3 in the EC semis.

[TajDeni]

Re: Dwyane Wade vs Reggie Miller?

WHOA WHOA WHOA. WHOA.

Wade has been playing with Lebron the past 2 years.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html

He put up 25,5 and 6 his first year with Lebron. This was when they were going back and forth taking turns. He took 18 shots per game that season and was fully healthy IMO.

Then when Lebron started orchestrating more of the offense Wade averaged:

22, 5, and 5. He only took 17 shots per game.

With the best player in the league on his team....and injury riddled (He missed 17 regular season games including some of the playoffs I think).

So...yeah...Wade is still an all time great.

is that why there was rampant speculation that the heat should trade wade to further help lebron achieve his place in basketball lore? i didnt make that up did I?

look im not saying that wade is bum player not in the slightest, that would be silly, but im just coming at it from the pov that wade got his team and legacy high-jacked by LBJ. it was supoosed to be the avengers down in miami. and now we see its more like batman and robin. and to cover this up folks are tying to say that wade is past his prime.

i dont think wade is past his prime, he just doesnt look as great of a player standing next to lebron. like is 1 thing for lbj to be better than wade. its another thing for folks to think that wade was better than lebron, then folks realise wade is not.

then all this well wade is past his prime talk started popping up. again wade is not past his prime. maybe his game is just not as great as some folks wanna make it out to be.

[PrettyT11]

Re: Dwyane Wade vs Reggie Miller?

In 1994/95 Reggie Miller was better than Patrick Ewing.
Again.

So you pick out one guy. What about the other 11?? But even when you single out you try and point to one game and your so called fact about that one game was wrong. Ewing scored 11 points in that game three not one. Even with that his 11 points is still more than the 10 Reggie scored in game two. Nice try though.

[InthePaint]

Re: Dwyane Wade vs Reggie Miller?

So you pick out one guy. What about the other 11?? But even when you single out you try and point to one game and your so called fact about that one game was wrong. Ewing scored 11 points in that game three not one. Even with that his 11 points is still more than the 10 Reggie scored in game two. Nice try though.

So u needed me to prove all ten to be top ten?

What else do u need after Miller playoff average of 25 per vs Ewing's 19 per that Playoff. Or is the Knicks knocking the Pacers, going to the Finals in the shortened season somehow factor into 94/95 top ten ratings? Where the 36 year old played half the playoffs.

If im not mistaken you asked any the guys u listed. Now its all of them?

Ok then so in 94-95 witch of these guys was he better than
Hakeem, Shaq, David Robinson, Pippen, Barkley, Malone, Stockton, Penny, Kemp, Payton, Richmond, and Ewing??

"witch" one is it? all 12 or one?

.The visitors brought a Mason to Market Square Arena Saturday afternoon--forward Anthony Mason--proving that they must have known it would be bad. But no one could have imagined it would be this bad: Patrick Ewing scoring one point and missing all 10 of his shots and the New York Knicks setting an NBA playoff record for offensive futility while losing to the Indiana Pacers, 88-68.

[DukeC]

Re: Dwyane Wade vs Reggie Miller?

is that why there was rampant speculation that the heat should trade wade to further help lebron achieve his place in basketball lore? i didnt make that up did I?

look im not saying that wade is bum player not in the slightest, that would be silly, but im just coming at it from the pov that wade got his team and legacy high-jacked by LBJ. it was supoosed to be the avengers down in miami. and now we see its more like batman and robin. and to cover this up folks are tying to say that wade is past his prime.

i dont think wade is past his prime, he just doesnt look as great of a player standing next to lebron. like is 1 thing for lbj to be better than wade. its another thing for folks to think that wade was better than lebron, then folks realise wade is not.

then all this well wade is past his prime talk started popping up. again wade is not past his prime. maybe his game is just not as great as some folks wanna make it out to be.

1st Bolded: No, you didn't make it up.

That would be the equivalent of trading Amare from the Knicks because it's taking time for him and Melo to mesh.

Only idiots suggest that in seriousness.

2nd Bolded: Again, Lebron is the best player on the planet. No one is going to look as good or better than Lebron. Not when he's the most dominant player on the court all the time.

This is similar to Shaq and Kobe. No matter how good Kobe was, Shaq was still the most dominant player on the court. His impact was simply that big.

3rd Bolded: And everything you just said...with Wade not being the focal point of the offense and Lebron looking like the most dominant player on the planet....still puts up numbers equivalent to Reggie Miller's best year. Not to mention he's still an elite defender.

As far as the better player....I'll say it like this. Wade is more likely to stop Reggie than Reggie being able to stop Wade.

[PrettyT11]

Re: Dwyane Wade vs Reggie Miller?

So u needed me to prove all ten to be top ten?

What else do u need after Miller playoff average of 25 per vs Ewing's 19 per that Playoff. Or is the Knicks knocking the Pacers, going to the Finals in the shortened season somehow factor into 94/95 top ten ratings? Where the 36 year old played half the playoffs.

If im not mistaken you asked any the guys u listed. Now its all of them?



"witch" one is it? all 12 or one?

Clearly you are missing it here. You said he was "clearly" a top 10 player during this period of time. I listed 12 players and asked who on that list was he better than. If I show you 12 and you feel he was without question top 10 then you should say he is at least better than 3 of them to put him into a list of 10. If you only say one of those guys then it can be assumed you feel the other 11 are better than he is. That would then make him not a "clearly" top 10 player.

[ojandpizza]

@InThePaint - I think the one thing you are sort of off on is the thought that one player = wins. It's not like Reggie was playing a LeBron role here. He was on a very balanced team.

And putting him over Ewing is a tough call for me. Ewing played well on offense and defense, and averaged 24 and 11 that season. And everybody knows the caliber of bigs in the league around this time.

Reggie was at almost 20ppg and 3 assists. To me that just isn't enough to credit him solely for the teams wins. Best player on his team? Obviously. Carried this team? Not at all. This team, as well as most of his other Pacers teams, was a great example of how a balanced team can become a playoff team without a bonafide superstar.

The reason I included some of the guys on the list I added to the other list is because of how well rounded those players were when compared to Reggie.. Example Dumars who scored only 1 less PPG that season, he was a far better defender, a better ball handler, a better passer, and rebounded just as well despite being shorter..

Reggie was a better 3 point shooter. IMO that just isn't enough.

[ojandpizza]

All those dudes got knocked out of the Playoffs or didnt even make it.

Dumars - No
Grant Hill was a rookie
Tim Hardaway and Sprewell - No
Mutombo - No
Drexler - no playoffs
Barkley - yes
Mourning - no playoffs
Rodman - No

Four teams get to the Conference Finals. Four teams have team leaders.
Miller was one of those four.



Should I run a list of names in the same way?

True but playoffs is more of a team accomplishment especially in Reggie's case.

But on Grant Hill- who cares if he was a rookie? That guy had a more complete game his rookie season than Reggie EVER had.

Also that season he out scored Reggie, had over 6 rebounds to Reggie's 2, 5 assists to Reggie's 3, while also averaging 2 steals and a block per game.

C'mon man anybody watching back then knows that even as a rookie Hill was about as complete of a player as you could find.

[InthePaint]

Re: Dwyane Wade vs Reggie Miller?

True but playoffs is more of a team accomplishment especially in Reggie's case.

But on Grant Hill- who cares if he was a rookie? That guy had a more complete game his rookie season than Reggie EVER had.

Also that season he out scored Reggie, had over 6 rebounds to Reggie's 2, 5 assists to Reggie's 3, while also averaging 2 steals and a block per game.

C'mon man anybody watching back then knows that even as a rookie Hill was about as complete of a player as you could find.

Millers average usually went up in the Playoffs. What was Hill's in The Playoffs that season?
How does his average go up if its a "team accomplishment" in the Playoff in his case? Could u explain this. Running thru screens is less effort than creating off the dribble? Getting to the free throw line and hitting at a high rate is easier than passing? Just wondering.


Dont U already have Wade over Miller?

[ojandpizza]

Millers average usually went up in the Playoffs. What was Hill's in The Playoffs that season?
How does his average go up if its a "team accomplishment" in the Playoff in his case? Could u explain this. Running thru screens is less effort than creating off the dribble? Getting to the free throw line and hitting at a high rate is easier than passing? Just wondering.


Dont U already have Wade over Miller?

Nobody here is arguing against his or for anybody else's effort..

I'm saying I would rather have a guy who could score, rebound, facilitate for others, and play DEFENSE as opposed to the guy who scores, and comes off screens better..

Hill actually shot and made more free throws per game than Reggie did.. Reggie just shot a better percent, which honestly doesn't matter that much when you don't shoot that many anyways.

And nobody is trying to take away the fact that Reggie did have some great playoff performances. I've actually backed him on that in this thread too. But getting to the playoffs in the first place was never achieved by a dominant season performance from Reggie..

And yes I had Wade > Reggie

[BringTheHeat]

Re: Dwyane Wade vs Reggie Miller?

The whole "Wade looks better because of LBJ" is the dumbest thing I've ever read.

Who was the best player on the 08 Redeem Team again? A team made of stars, including precious Kobe Bryant.

Remember...this is right before the year he was the best player in the league.

[TajDeni]

Re: Dwyane Wade vs Reggie Miller?

The whole "Wade looks better because of LBJ" is the dumbest thing I've ever read.

Who was the best player on the 08 Redeem Team again? A team made of stars, including precious Kobe Bryant.

Remember...this is right before the year he was the best player in the league.

tough to call because you didnt specify who you were talking to, but just incase i was included in that based on some of my previous post. id read them again because that was not my sentiments. my sentiments is that lbj makes wade look worse. or more accurately than worse would be to say that lbjs greatness puts wades greatness in its proper context.

and 4 the record kobe actually willingly took a back seat on the '08 dream team to be the teams defacto defensive stopper. but again in the only 2 games team usa had any shot at losing, he was right there playing the key role in deciding the outcome. and thats important to say because he was pretty bad offensively the rest of the tourny. but when it was money time he showed up. and yes wade was right there also.

never ever thought wade was the best player in the league, just imo tho. look my opinion is not that wade isnt great because obviously he is. my opinion is that he simply isnt as great as some of the folks on here seem to think he is. i think on these boards he is slightly overrated.