Kobe or MJ?

**LedouxRoc** · 06-10-2004, 01:58 PM

Re: Kobe or MJ?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Sonicmage said:
There's not much debate here.

Everybody talks about Kobe's game-tying shot for Game 2 but not that he took that stupid 3-point attempt a minute before that put them in that situation to begin with. The difference with Jordan is that he might have made that same game-tying shot, but he would NEVER have taken that ill-advised shot before it. Unlike with Kobe, no one would ever once question MJ's moves. If MJ were to commit a turnover or get his shot blocked, more often than not, it was not because of his own mistakes, but because the defender was simply better than him on that play. Kobe can make plays that make people ask "What the heck are you doing?!!" There's the difference.

<hr /></blockquote>

Kobe had to take that first three. LA was down by six with 40secs left on the clock and 1 timeout. The fact that Shaq made the 3pt play is the only reason the Lakers could have been in the position to tie the game, a 2 pointer wouldn't cut it. It was quick shot time.

You know when someone is idolized to much, when you start saying that they never make mistakes.

Jordan > Kobe, but at the same time, Jordan was not GOD.

**SonicMage** · 06-10-2004, 02:12 PM

Re: Kobe or MJ?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
LedouxRoc said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Sonicmage said:
There's not much debate here.

Everybody talks about Kobe's game-tying shot for Game 2 but not that he took that stupid 3-point attempt a minute before that put them in that situation to begin with. The difference with Jordan is that he might have made that same game-tying shot, but he would NEVER have taken that ill-advised shot before it. Unlike with Kobe, no one would ever once question MJ's moves. If MJ were to commit a turnover or get his shot blocked, more often than not, it was not because of his own mistakes, but because the defender was simply better than him on that play. Kobe can make plays that make people ask "What the heck are you doing?!!" There's the difference.

<hr /></blockquote>

Kobe had to take that first three. LA was down by six with 40secs left on the clock and no timeouts. The fact that Shaq made the 3pt play is the only reason the Lakers could have been in the position to tie the game, a 2 pointer wouldn't cut it. It was quick shot time.

You know when someone is idolized to much, when you start saying that they never make mistakes.

Jordan > Kobe, but at the same time, Jordan was not GOD.

<hr /></blockquote>

I said more often than not, not never. I hate having to repeat myself. Oh, and I dont "idolize" Jordan, but I do think he is the greatest player ever at his position, despite the fact that I grew up in LA. He just knew where he had to be, when to be there, and how to get there...the ultimate student of the game.

Any good coach will tell you that you don't need a three when down by 6 with 40 seconds left to go, especially not a forced one. Take the three if its open (which it wasn't), otherwise take the quick two and then foul the other team.

**SonicMage** · 06-10-2004, 02:12 PM

Re: Kobe or MJ?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
LedouxRoc said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Sonicmage said:
There's not much debate here.

Everybody talks about Kobe's game-tying shot for Game 2 but not that he took that stupid 3-point attempt a minute before that put them in that situation to begin with. The difference with Jordan is that he might have made that same game-tying shot, but he would NEVER have taken that ill-advised shot before it. Unlike with Kobe, no one would ever once question MJ's moves. If MJ were to commit a turnover or get his shot blocked, more often than not, it was not because of his own mistakes, but because the defender was simply better than him on that play. Kobe can make plays that make people ask "What the heck are you doing?!!" There's the difference.

<hr /></blockquote>

Kobe had to take that first three. LA was down by six with 40secs left on the clock and no timeouts. The fact that Shaq made the 3pt play is the only reason the Lakers could have been in the position to tie the game, a 2 pointer wouldn't cut it. It was quick shot time.

You know when someone is idolized to much, when you start saying that they never make mistakes.

Jordan > Kobe, but at the same time, Jordan was not GOD.

<hr /></blockquote>

I said more often than not, not never. I hate having to repeat myself. Oh, and I dont "idolize" Jordan, but I do think he is the greatest player ever at his position, despite the fact that I grew up in LA. He just knew where he had to be, when to be there, and how to get there...the ultimate student of the game.

Any good coach will tell you that you don't need a three when down by 6 with 40 seconds left to go, especially not a forced one. Take the three if its open (which it wasn't), otherwise take the quick two and then foul the other team.

**SonicMage** · 06-10-2004, 02:12 PM

Re: Kobe or MJ?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
LedouxRoc said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Sonicmage said:
There's not much debate here.

Everybody talks about Kobe's game-tying shot for Game 2 but not that he took that stupid 3-point attempt a minute before that put them in that situation to begin with. The difference with Jordan is that he might have made that same game-tying shot, but he would NEVER have taken that ill-advised shot before it. Unlike with Kobe, no one would ever once question MJ's moves. If MJ were to commit a turnover or get his shot blocked, more often than not, it was not because of his own mistakes, but because the defender was simply better than him on that play. Kobe can make plays that make people ask "What the heck are you doing?!!" There's the difference.

<hr /></blockquote>

Kobe had to take that first three. LA was down by six with 40secs left on the clock and no timeouts. The fact that Shaq made the 3pt play is the only reason the Lakers could have been in the position to tie the game, a 2 pointer wouldn't cut it. It was quick shot time.

You know when someone is idolized to much, when you start saying that they never make mistakes.

Jordan > Kobe, but at the same time, Jordan was not GOD.

<hr /></blockquote>

I said more often than not, not never. I hate having to repeat myself. Oh, and I dont "idolize" Jordan, but I do think he is the greatest player ever at his position, despite the fact that I grew up in LA. He just knew where he had to be, when to be there, and how to get there...the ultimate student of the game.

Any good coach will tell you that you don't need a three when down by 6 with 40 seconds left to go, especially not a forced one. Take the three if its open (which it wasn't), otherwise take the quick two and then foul the other team.

**49ersrule23** · 06-10-2004, 03:33 PM

Re: Kobe or MJ?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Leon said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
49ersrule23 said:
This is a question right.

This a no-brainer. MJ,MJ,MJ. As clutch as Kobe is Michael Jordan is still the greatest under pressure.

One sentence: 1997 Utah Game 6

<hr /></blockquote>

1998, not 1997. Unless of course, you're talking about Game 5, 1997.

<hr /></blockquote>

Excuse me, 1998 Game 6. Also Game 5 1997 would work also.

**49ersrule23** · 06-10-2004, 03:33 PM

Re: Kobe or MJ?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Leon said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
49ersrule23 said:
This is a question right.

This a no-brainer. MJ,MJ,MJ. As clutch as Kobe is Michael Jordan is still the greatest under pressure.

One sentence: 1997 Utah Game 6

<hr /></blockquote>

1998, not 1997. Unless of course, you're talking about Game 5, 1997.

<hr /></blockquote>

Excuse me, 1998 Game 6. Also Game 5 1997 would work also.

**49ersrule23** · 06-10-2004, 03:33 PM

Re: Kobe or MJ?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Leon said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
49ersrule23 said:
This is a question right.

This a no-brainer. MJ,MJ,MJ. As clutch as Kobe is Michael Jordan is still the greatest under pressure.

One sentence: 1997 Utah Game 6

<hr /></blockquote>

1998, not 1997. Unless of course, you're talking about Game 5, 1997.

<hr /></blockquote>

Excuse me, 1998 Game 6. Also Game 5 1997 would work also.

**MartinDihigo** · 06-10-2004, 03:59 PM

Re: Kobe or MJ?

It is not even close. I could see how a young guy could think Kobe(or tmac,garnett and maybe someone else) is as good because they didn't see Mike as a young man. I saw Mike's progression from the time he joined the NBA. If you didn't see Mike actually play before like 1995 you have no idea how good he was.

No doubt Kobe is good.
On any given play , on any single move or sequence Kobe Bryant can be as good as Mike. Kobe is a great player , he has mastered a lot of the same techniques that Jordan had mastered. In some ways their game is very similar. The difference of Mike was his intensity, his leadership , his ability to use his ability to affect the outcome of the game.

The difference really stands out when looking at longterm like seasons and career or when looking at tough playoff games. (anyone can score 40+ in a regular season game against the warriors)
In a tough game Kobe is able to score 25 and maybe hit an amazing shot. If Kobe is off he can defer to Shaq. Shaq tends to be the unstoppable one on the team but this is Kobe vs Mike not shaq... You know kobe will play big in a playoff game and at the end if its close ,Kobe can take and Make big shots. Thats not how Mike was - Jordan would Take Over the toughest games. He would make his team win, even if the other team had more talent Jordan would make his team win most of the time. Over the course of seasons Jordan didn't let his team slack and play when the felt like it - he tried to win 60 or more games. In playoffs he would score 40 or 50 points if necessary. It wasn't like his team was so good that they just coasted through the first 31/2 qrts like the lakers do. Jordan carried his team all game - he was the only real reason for them to win. If he sensed a bad game and they were gonna lose like the lakers played in game 1 , he would have stepped it up and tried to force a win and trust me , he would probably make the game closer and maybe give his team a shot to win. Game 2 would have been a blowout win. there wouldn't have been a final big shot or overtime. Mike was as unstoppable as Shaq and he didn't need anyone to throw an entry pass. He would have embarassed Chauncy or Rip. And he shot like 50% from the field.
Jordan tried so hard all the time and it showed even though he made things look easy. He even worked the roleplayers hard in practice, and was famous for getting more out of his teammates.
If you put Kobe on a some of the teams Jordan won with , they would not have won as much. Maybe some of the games but not as many. If you gave Jordan a Shaq instead of a luc Longley The Bulls could have won every game they were healthy. They would have like 75 wins. Who did jordan have most of the time ? Pippen ? come on.

If you saw both guys play in their Prime (not their twilight) then it is not even close.

**MartinDihigo** · 06-10-2004, 03:59 PM

Re: Kobe or MJ?

It is not even close. I could see how a young guy could think Kobe(or tmac,garnett and maybe someone else) is as good because they didn't see Mike as a young man. I saw Mike's progression from the time he joined the NBA. If you didn't see Mike actually play before like 1995 you have no idea how good he was.

No doubt Kobe is good.
On any given play , on any single move or sequence Kobe Bryant can be as good as Mike. Kobe is a great player , he has mastered a lot of the same techniques that Jordan had mastered. In some ways their game is very similar. The difference of Mike was his intensity, his leadership , his ability to use his ability to affect the outcome of the game.

The difference really stands out when looking at longterm like seasons and career or when looking at tough playoff games. (anyone can score 40+ in a regular season game against the warriors)
In a tough game Kobe is able to score 25 and maybe hit an amazing shot. If Kobe is off he can defer to Shaq. Shaq tends to be the unstoppable one on the team but this is Kobe vs Mike not shaq... You know kobe will play big in a playoff game and at the end if its close ,Kobe can take and Make big shots. Thats not how Mike was - Jordan would Take Over the toughest games. He would make his team win, even if the other team had more talent Jordan would make his team win most of the time. Over the course of seasons Jordan didn't let his team slack and play when the felt like it - he tried to win 60 or more games. In playoffs he would score 40 or 50 points if necessary. It wasn't like his team was so good that they just coasted through the first 31/2 qrts like the lakers do. Jordan carried his team all game - he was the only real reason for them to win. If he sensed a bad game and they were gonna lose like the lakers played in game 1 , he would have stepped it up and tried to force a win and trust me , he would probably make the game closer and maybe give his team a shot to win. Game 2 would have been a blowout win. there wouldn't have been a final big shot or overtime. Mike was as unstoppable as Shaq and he didn't need anyone to throw an entry pass. He would have embarassed Chauncy or Rip. And he shot like 50% from the field.
Jordan tried so hard all the time and it showed even though he made things look easy. He even worked the roleplayers hard in practice, and was famous for getting more out of his teammates.
If you put Kobe on a some of the teams Jordan won with , they would not have won as much. Maybe some of the games but not as many. If you gave Jordan a Shaq instead of a luc Longley The Bulls could have won every game they were healthy. They would have like 75 wins. Who did jordan have most of the time ? Pippen ? come on.

If you saw both guys play in their Prime (not their twilight) then it is not even close.

**MartinDihigo** · 06-10-2004, 03:59 PM

Re: Kobe or MJ?

It is not even close. I could see how a young guy could think Kobe(or tmac,garnett and maybe someone else) is as good because they didn't see Mike as a young man. I saw Mike's progression from the time he joined the NBA. If you didn't see Mike actually play before like 1995 you have no idea how good he was.

No doubt Kobe is good.
On any given play , on any single move or sequence Kobe Bryant can be as good as Mike. Kobe is a great player , he has mastered a lot of the same techniques that Jordan had mastered. In some ways their game is very similar. The difference of Mike was his intensity, his leadership , his ability to use his ability to affect the outcome of the game.

The difference really stands out when looking at longterm like seasons and career or when looking at tough playoff games. (anyone can score 40+ in a regular season game against the warriors)
In a tough game Kobe is able to score 25 and maybe hit an amazing shot. If Kobe is off he can defer to Shaq. Shaq tends to be the unstoppable one on the team but this is Kobe vs Mike not shaq... You know kobe will play big in a playoff game and at the end if its close ,Kobe can take and Make big shots. Thats not how Mike was - Jordan would Take Over the toughest games. He would make his team win, even if the other team had more talent Jordan would make his team win most of the time. Over the course of seasons Jordan didn't let his team slack and play when the felt like it - he tried to win 60 or more games. In playoffs he would score 40 or 50 points if necessary. It wasn't like his team was so good that they just coasted through the first 31/2 qrts like the lakers do. Jordan carried his team all game - he was the only real reason for them to win. If he sensed a bad game and they were gonna lose like the lakers played in game 1 , he would have stepped it up and tried to force a win and trust me , he would probably make the game closer and maybe give his team a shot to win. Game 2 would have been a blowout win. there wouldn't have been a final big shot or overtime. Mike was as unstoppable as Shaq and he didn't need anyone to throw an entry pass. He would have embarassed Chauncy or Rip. And he shot like 50% from the field.
Jordan tried so hard all the time and it showed even though he made things look easy. He even worked the roleplayers hard in practice, and was famous for getting more out of his teammates.
If you put Kobe on a some of the teams Jordan won with , they would not have won as much. Maybe some of the games but not as many. If you gave Jordan a Shaq instead of a luc Longley The Bulls could have won every game they were healthy. They would have like 75 wins. Who did jordan have most of the time ? Pippen ? come on.

If you saw both guys play in their Prime (not their twilight) then it is not even close.

**CharlieBrown** · 06-10-2004, 04:02 PM

Re: Kobe or MJ?

What a question.

**CharlieBrown** · 06-10-2004, 04:02 PM

Re: Kobe or MJ?

What a question.

**CharlieBrown** · 06-10-2004, 04:02 PM

Re: Kobe or MJ?

What a question.

**Air23** · 06-10-2004, 04:35 PM

Re: Kobe or MJ?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
MartinDihigo said:
It is not even close. I could see how a young guy could think Kobe(or tmac,garnett and maybe someone else) is as good because they didn't see Mike as a young man. I saw Mike's progression from the time he joined the NBA. If you didn't see Mike actually play before like 1995 you have no idea how good he was.

No doubt Kobe is good.
On any given play , on any single move or sequence Kobe Bryant can be as good as Mike. Kobe is a great player , he has mastered a lot of the same techniques that Jordan had mastered. In some ways their game is very similar. The difference of Mike was his intensity, his leadership , his ability to use his ability to affect the outcome of the game.

The difference really stands out when looking at longterm like seasons and career or when looking at tough playoff games. (anyone can score 40+ in a regular season game against the warriors)
In a tough game Kobe is able to score 25 and maybe hit an amazing shot. If Kobe is off he can defer to Shaq. Shaq tends to be the unstoppable one on the team but this is Kobe vs Mike not shaq... You know kobe will play big in a playoff game and at the end if its close ,Kobe can take and Make big shots. Thats not how Mike was - Jordan would Take Over the toughest games. He would make his team win, even if the other team had more talent Jordan would make his team win most of the time. Over the course of seasons Jordan didn't let his team slack and play when the felt like it - he tried to win 60 or more games. In playoffs he would score 40 or 50 points if necessary. It wasn't like his team was so good that they just coasted through the first 31/2 qrts like the lakers do. Jordan carried his team all game - he was the only real reason for them to win. If he sensed a bad game and they were gonna lose like the lakers played in game 1 , he would have stepped it up and tried to force a win and trust me , he would probably make the game closer and maybe give his team a shot to win. Game 2 would have been a blowout win. there wouldn't have been a final big shot or overtime. Mike was as unstoppable as Shaq and he didn't need anyone to throw an entry pass. He would have embarassed Chauncy or Rip. And he shot like 50% from the field.
Jordan tried so hard all the time and it showed even though he made things look easy. He even worked the roleplayers hard in practice, and was famous for getting more out of his teammates.
If you put Kobe on a some of the teams Jordan won with , they would not have won as much. Maybe some of the games but not as many. If you gave Jordan a Shaq instead of a luc Longley The Bulls could have won every game they were healthy. They would have like 75 wins. Who did jordan have most of the time ? Pippen ? come on.

If you saw both guys play in their Prime (not their twilight) then it is not even close.

<hr /></blockquote>

A with this post, this debate is ended.

**Air23** · 06-10-2004, 04:35 PM

Re: Kobe or MJ?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
MartinDihigo said:
It is not even close. I could see how a young guy could think Kobe(or tmac,garnett and maybe someone else) is as good because they didn't see Mike as a young man. I saw Mike's progression from the time he joined the NBA. If you didn't see Mike actually play before like 1995 you have no idea how good he was.

No doubt Kobe is good.
On any given play , on any single move or sequence Kobe Bryant can be as good as Mike. Kobe is a great player , he has mastered a lot of the same techniques that Jordan had mastered. In some ways their game is very similar. The difference of Mike was his intensity, his leadership , his ability to use his ability to affect the outcome of the game.

The difference really stands out when looking at longterm like seasons and career or when looking at tough playoff games. (anyone can score 40+ in a regular season game against the warriors)
In a tough game Kobe is able to score 25 and maybe hit an amazing shot. If Kobe is off he can defer to Shaq. Shaq tends to be the unstoppable one on the team but this is Kobe vs Mike not shaq... You know kobe will play big in a playoff game and at the end if its close ,Kobe can take and Make big shots. Thats not how Mike was - Jordan would Take Over the toughest games. He would make his team win, even if the other team had more talent Jordan would make his team win most of the time. Over the course of seasons Jordan didn't let his team slack and play when the felt like it - he tried to win 60 or more games. In playoffs he would score 40 or 50 points if necessary. It wasn't like his team was so good that they just coasted through the first 31/2 qrts like the lakers do. Jordan carried his team all game - he was the only real reason for them to win. If he sensed a bad game and they were gonna lose like the lakers played in game 1 , he would have stepped it up and tried to force a win and trust me , he would probably make the game closer and maybe give his team a shot to win. Game 2 would have been a blowout win. there wouldn't have been a final big shot or overtime. Mike was as unstoppable as Shaq and he didn't need anyone to throw an entry pass. He would have embarassed Chauncy or Rip. And he shot like 50% from the field.
Jordan tried so hard all the time and it showed even though he made things look easy. He even worked the roleplayers hard in practice, and was famous for getting more out of his teammates.
If you put Kobe on a some of the teams Jordan won with , they would not have won as much. Maybe some of the games but not as many. If you gave Jordan a Shaq instead of a luc Longley The Bulls could have won every game they were healthy. They would have like 75 wins. Who did jordan have most of the time ? Pippen ? come on.

If you saw both guys play in their Prime (not their twilight) then it is not even close.

<hr /></blockquote>

A with this post, this debate is ended.

Kobe or MJ?

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