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**nkhera1** · 07-13-2004, 09:01 PM

Re: Do the Kobe critics even know the basics?

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KDRE said:
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I think he was talking about best guard, and besides not winning those awards doesn't mean he is a great player. He has all-nba first team and all-nba defensive team awards which is pretty good

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If he was talking about guards then he should and would have said that wouldn't he, but he didn't which means you are assuming and going off of something that was never said. I also never said he wasn't a great player, but as he said, he also isn't the greatest since MJ either

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i agree with you there as of right now. We'll see what happens once kobe gets his own team

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jordan did that as well to some degree, and i know jordan is the g.o.a.t and that kobe still has to catch up in skill level.

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MJ didn't curse Phil out. He knew Phil was important to winning. Kobe just didn't care. MJ never got Phil fired, or Pip traded or any of this madness Kobe is in the middle of.

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yeah its not the same circumstances but he helped get doug collins fired, i heard he punched a player in practice once (read it in some stupid book at borders)

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So who cares that noone complained then. Now they are complaining, and its not like shaq couldn't have done it without bryant. I mean you take away shaq and kobe and this team won't even be able to win 5 games, thats how bad the rest of the team is.

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If they gave it to him, then they shouldn't complain now because it was their fault in the first place. I see that there are so many what have you done for me lately fans on the Lakers wagon. Those aren't loyal fans, those are stick with you if you win fans, and if not then oh well hollywood type fans. With just Shaq, they couls win more games than they would with just Kobe and we all know it. Dont know the teammates now because if I'm not mistaken, it was guys like Bob H orry and Fisher who saved the Lakers in PLAYOFF games and contributed to those wins. You seem so unappreciative

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yeah they saved them, but every team gets lucky. Like tim duncan's shot. also those players are important but like i said thake kobe or shaq off and that team can't win 5 games. And i'm not a lakers fan i am a suns fan and i'm not a kobe fan i am actually a jordan fan and i do beleive he was the greatest ever and that kobe won't be as good, but i do believe kobe is the best 2 right now

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you are mistaken. unless you count a washed up horace grant or ron harper (for one year) as mj's teammates. so that is a pretty useless post there.

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you are sad that you mis understand the value of the experience and what guys like Ho Grant Harper, and Phil and his team brought to the Lakers. Again, unappreciative. Fans like this dont deserve a winning team

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again i hate the lakers, but i no playoff experience is valuable but i would rather have someone who can play a little here and there.

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yeah your definetely right here. He is selfish, but i do think he cares about winning. Besides he has made the game a lot easier for shaq as well by driving and drawing the defense so that he can feed the rock to shaq.

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Actually, Shaq is the one who made it easier for Kobe. Did you watch the games? Are you okay? Shaq demanded the doubles and triples not Kobe. Your blinders are on full blast because you missed what the rest of the world saw. There is a reason Shaq was referred to as the most dominant and not Kobe

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i know shaq made the game a hell of a lot easier for bryant but kobe also made it easier for shaq. and my blinders are on full blast when i say amare stoudamire is going to be the best player next year (though i believe it will happen in about 2 or 3 years). and before this year i would have totally agreed with you but i saw some games and shaq got some help from kobe

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And there you have it, you made some valid points but i countered with what i thought was valid.

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Well, you tried, and I appreciate that, but look at what you've said and honestly think "do I really believe this myself

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i believe myself more than i believe you. I can't see how you can convince me that a horace grant sitting on the bench injured is a valuable asset to a team

**Brankles** · 07-14-2004, 12:06 AM

Re: Do the Kobe critics even know the basics?

KDRE... you know you got em beat when all they can say is... "you're the biggest Kobe ***** of all time..."

These guys can't back up anything they say... they just throw out the "*****" line every time you make Kobe not look like he's the second coming of Christ...

I'm with KDRE on the fact that Kobe is a great player. Possibly the best SG since MJ. Not the best player, however. I give Kobe his props... but you guys overdo it... Kobe is what he is... a good defender, a good offensive player, a great clutch player... but he's also selfish, controlling, egotistical, and lives in his own dream world... IMO, Tim Duncan, Shaq and KG are better than Kobe... if you look at stats... yes they are... if you look at trophies and awards... yes they are... if you look at the impact they make on their teams... yes they are....

I know that Kobe fans can't back up half the stuff they say... unless you consider "*****" a great comeback line...

Holla

**Brankles** · 07-14-2004, 12:06 AM

Re: Do the Kobe critics even know the basics?

KDRE... you know you got em beat when all they can say is... "you're the biggest Kobe ***** of all time..."

These guys can't back up anything they say... they just throw out the "*****" line every time you make Kobe not look like he's the second coming of Christ...

I'm with KDRE on the fact that Kobe is a great player. Possibly the best SG since MJ. Not the best player, however. I give Kobe his props... but you guys overdo it... Kobe is what he is... a good defender, a good offensive player, a great clutch player... but he's also selfish, controlling, egotistical, and lives in his own dream world... IMO, Tim Duncan, Shaq and KG are better than Kobe... if you look at stats... yes they are... if you look at trophies and awards... yes they are... if you look at the impact they make on their teams... yes they are....

I know that Kobe fans can't back up half the stuff they say... unless you consider "*****" a great comeback line...

Holla

**Brankles** · 07-14-2004, 12:06 AM

Re: Do the Kobe critics even know the basics?

KDRE... you know you got em beat when all they can say is... "you're the biggest Kobe ***** of all time..."

These guys can't back up anything they say... they just throw out the "*****" line every time you make Kobe not look like he's the second coming of Christ...

I'm with KDRE on the fact that Kobe is a great player. Possibly the best SG since MJ. Not the best player, however. I give Kobe his props... but you guys overdo it... Kobe is what he is... a good defender, a good offensive player, a great clutch player... but he's also selfish, controlling, egotistical, and lives in his own dream world... IMO, Tim Duncan, Shaq and KG are better than Kobe... if you look at stats... yes they are... if you look at trophies and awards... yes they are... if you look at the impact they make on their teams... yes they are....

I know that Kobe fans can't back up half the stuff they say... unless you consider "*****" a great comeback line...

Holla

**Dynasty4Kobe** · 07-14-2004, 12:16 AM

Re: Do the Kobe critics even know the basics?

People are getting way to anal about some of this stuff.

This is like the 33025608th thread about Kobe Bryant resulting in a hating vs. fanboyism debate.

I don't see what the big deal is just because guys like KDRE and Brankles "Hate" (if you want to call it that) on Kobe. I think gives more life to the forum. You come here to talk basketball, and I can guarentee you that you will never be able to talk basketball if everyone says the same damn thing. Personally, I think it is pretty cool to talk to these so-called haters.

People just have to realize: it is opinion vs. opinion, not fact vs. fact.

**Dynasty4Kobe** · 07-14-2004, 12:16 AM

Re: Do the Kobe critics even know the basics?

People are getting way to anal about some of this stuff.

This is like the 33025608th thread about Kobe Bryant resulting in a hating vs. fanboyism debate.

I don't see what the big deal is just because guys like KDRE and Brankles "Hate" (if you want to call it that) on Kobe. I think gives more life to the forum. You come here to talk basketball, and I can guarentee you that you will never be able to talk basketball if everyone says the same damn thing. Personally, I think it is pretty cool to talk to these so-called haters.

People just have to realize: it is opinion vs. opinion, not fact vs. fact.

**Dynasty4Kobe** · 07-14-2004, 12:16 AM

Re: Do the Kobe critics even know the basics?

People are getting way to anal about some of this stuff.

This is like the 33025608th thread about Kobe Bryant resulting in a hating vs. fanboyism debate.

I don't see what the big deal is just because guys like KDRE and Brankles "Hate" (if you want to call it that) on Kobe. I think gives more life to the forum. You come here to talk basketball, and I can guarentee you that you will never be able to talk basketball if everyone says the same damn thing. Personally, I think it is pretty cool to talk to these so-called haters.

People just have to realize: it is opinion vs. opinion, not fact vs. fact.

**Brankles** · 07-14-2004, 12:26 AM

Re: Do the Kobe critics even know the basics?

I agree with you on that aspect... I enjoy having an intelligent discussion about something... not goin
"You're a sack rider"
"You're a *****"
"No, you're a sack rider"
"No, you're a *****"

Anyone that wants to have a debate about something... talk about the topic and the facts, don't make up opinions that are totally false, and don't, for just the reason you disagree with them, call them "names" and whatnot... use your mind... and if you can't do that, then don't use anything at all...

There's a few Kobe fans out there that I got respect for, that put up a good argument, and make good points. Dynasty4Kobe is one of them... and jordan is one of them (sometimes)... it just seems like the rest of you don't take any facts or other people's opinions into hand... some of you are really close-minded... and that could be said about me... but like I've said before, I believe Kobe is a top 5 player in the league right now... and he has the potential to be the best... but right now, he's not proven much else, otherwise...

Holla

**Brankles** · 07-14-2004, 12:26 AM

Re: Do the Kobe critics even know the basics?

I agree with you on that aspect... I enjoy having an intelligent discussion about something... not goin
"You're a sack rider"
"You're a *****"
"No, you're a sack rider"
"No, you're a *****"

Anyone that wants to have a debate about something... talk about the topic and the facts, don't make up opinions that are totally false, and don't, for just the reason you disagree with them, call them "names" and whatnot... use your mind... and if you can't do that, then don't use anything at all...

There's a few Kobe fans out there that I got respect for, that put up a good argument, and make good points. Dynasty4Kobe is one of them... and jordan is one of them (sometimes)... it just seems like the rest of you don't take any facts or other people's opinions into hand... some of you are really close-minded... and that could be said about me... but like I've said before, I believe Kobe is a top 5 player in the league right now... and he has the potential to be the best... but right now, he's not proven much else, otherwise...

Holla

**Brankles** · 07-14-2004, 12:26 AM

Re: Do the Kobe critics even know the basics?

I agree with you on that aspect... I enjoy having an intelligent discussion about something... not goin
"You're a sack rider"
"You're a *****"
"No, you're a sack rider"
"No, you're a *****"

Anyone that wants to have a debate about something... talk about the topic and the facts, don't make up opinions that are totally false, and don't, for just the reason you disagree with them, call them "names" and whatnot... use your mind... and if you can't do that, then don't use anything at all...

There's a few Kobe fans out there that I got respect for, that put up a good argument, and make good points. Dynasty4Kobe is one of them... and jordan is one of them (sometimes)... it just seems like the rest of you don't take any facts or other people's opinions into hand... some of you are really close-minded... and that could be said about me... but like I've said before, I believe Kobe is a top 5 player in the league right now... and he has the potential to be the best... but right now, he's not proven much else, otherwise...

Holla

**Leon** · 07-14-2004, 12:47 AM

Re: Do the Kobe critics even know the basics?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Squint said:
KDRE--

Where are the Jordan lovers complaining about his 30-35 shots a night, getting Doug Collins fired, and being THE single biggest ball hog the NBA has ever seen? They aren't in this forum, because most of the Jordan lovers of today didn't start watching Jordan play until the second of his threepeat title runs.

I'm not bashing Jordan. He did what he had to do when he was a young player, but cut Kobe some slack and allow him to finally come of age.

<hr /></blockquote>

Michael Jordan didn't get Doug Collins fired, Doug Collins got himself fired. Besides the coaching style, if I remember correctly from what I read, Collins tried to get Krause fired through Reinsdorf which resulted in Reinsdorf firing Collins.

Just to pitch in, 30-35 during his 80's years was fine because he was their SINGLE scoring threat. Lakers had Shaq and Kobe then last year GP and Malone to go along with them. But now, I'm guessing Kobe's justified to shoot around that range since he's "alone".

Anyway, you can bash each other now, even though there was the same topic about this a couple of threads down.

Play nice fellas.

**Leon** · 07-14-2004, 12:47 AM

Re: Do the Kobe critics even know the basics?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Squint said:
KDRE--

Where are the Jordan lovers complaining about his 30-35 shots a night, getting Doug Collins fired, and being THE single biggest ball hog the NBA has ever seen? They aren't in this forum, because most of the Jordan lovers of today didn't start watching Jordan play until the second of his threepeat title runs.

I'm not bashing Jordan. He did what he had to do when he was a young player, but cut Kobe some slack and allow him to finally come of age.

<hr /></blockquote>

Michael Jordan didn't get Doug Collins fired, Doug Collins got himself fired. Besides the coaching style, if I remember correctly from what I read, Collins tried to get Krause fired through Reinsdorf which resulted in Reinsdorf firing Collins.

Just to pitch in, 30-35 during his 80's years was fine because he was their SINGLE scoring threat. Lakers had Shaq and Kobe then last year GP and Malone to go along with them. But now, I'm guessing Kobe's justified to shoot around that range since he's "alone".

Anyway, you can bash each other now, even though there was the same topic about this a couple of threads down.

Play nice fellas.

**Leon** · 07-14-2004, 12:47 AM

Re: Do the Kobe critics even know the basics?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Squint said:
KDRE--

Where are the Jordan lovers complaining about his 30-35 shots a night, getting Doug Collins fired, and being THE single biggest ball hog the NBA has ever seen? They aren't in this forum, because most of the Jordan lovers of today didn't start watching Jordan play until the second of his threepeat title runs.

I'm not bashing Jordan. He did what he had to do when he was a young player, but cut Kobe some slack and allow him to finally come of age.

<hr /></blockquote>

Michael Jordan didn't get Doug Collins fired, Doug Collins got himself fired. Besides the coaching style, if I remember correctly from what I read, Collins tried to get Krause fired through Reinsdorf which resulted in Reinsdorf firing Collins.

Just to pitch in, 30-35 during his 80's years was fine because he was their SINGLE scoring threat. Lakers had Shaq and Kobe then last year GP and Malone to go along with them. But now, I'm guessing Kobe's justified to shoot around that range since he's "alone".

Anyway, you can bash each other now, even though there was the same topic about this a couple of threads down.

Play nice fellas.

23 · 07-14-2004, 12:53 AM

Re: Do the Kobe critics even know the basics?

Question, if we are comparing Kobe to Jordan , why does Kobe need something tailor made to his game.

As you seem to want to imply, the triangle wasn't tailor made for Jordan's game. Yet he used it as a lethal weapon against his opponents.

Why then is was the triangle not good enough for Kobe Bryant? Is Kobe special? Is Kobe better than his Airness?

Jordan, like Shaq, wanted to leave after Jackson left. Apparently, Jordan not only had no problem with adapting his game to the system, he embraced it.

Kobe, no so. Maybe if they had kept Jackson and dumped Shaq, Kobe could have seen the beauty of this "stifling" offense, the same offense that stifled Jordan.

Next please.

23 · 07-14-2004, 12:53 AM

Re: Do the Kobe critics even know the basics?

Question, if we are comparing Kobe to Jordan , why does Kobe need something tailor made to his game.

As you seem to want to imply, the triangle wasn't tailor made for Jordan's game. Yet he used it as a lethal weapon against his opponents.

Why then is was the triangle not good enough for Kobe Bryant? Is Kobe special? Is Kobe better than his Airness?

Jordan, like Shaq, wanted to leave after Jackson left. Apparently, Jordan not only had no problem with adapting his game to the system, he embraced it.

Kobe, no so. Maybe if they had kept Jackson and dumped Shaq, Kobe could have seen the beauty of this "stifling" offense, the same offense that stifled Jordan.

Next please.

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Do the Kobe critics even know the basics?

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