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**sonofsiam** · 07-14-2004, 01:20 AM

Re: Do the Kobe critics even know the basics?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
SportsmanTO said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Squint said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
SportsmanTO said:
Just want to pick up on the "team was built around a center." You do realize that the triangle was used in Chicago and they never had a center that was more than above average.

<hr /></blockquote>

You do know that the Triangle Offense was originally created around the center, right? The triple post offense.

<hr /></blockquote>

Hmm that may be true but i'm talking about the way Phil Jackson coached it especially in Chicago. I mean a team that can win with Bill Cartwright at center has to have production elsewhere.

But this is verging off the subject but if i'm wrong then sorry

<hr /></blockquote>

No, it was a good point and Squints reply was spot on. I guess the key point is, the pieces were built to suit Shaq.

Look, Kobe is probably the worlds biggest w@nker and he may well be a bad team mate. However, if we are judging this purely as a basketball thing, then all of us should reserve judgement until he has his 'own' team.

It may well be a massive failure and he may come back to the pack. Let's see.

23 · 07-14-2004, 01:24 AM

Re: Do the Kobe critics even know the basics?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Slip said:
But honestly, it goes both way with the comparisons because of it.

Of course you cant say Kobe isnt near Jordan or never will be because of the fact that he is only 25, and Jordan had a GREAT career, so let Kobe's career play out and see what happens.

Then, for this same reason, you cant say he is near Jordan. You really cant debate either side.

<hr /></blockquote>

Do you realize what MJ did individually by his 3rd year? Something noone has done since in the L.

23 · 07-14-2004, 01:24 AM

Re: Do the Kobe critics even know the basics?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Slip said:
But honestly, it goes both way with the comparisons because of it.

Of course you cant say Kobe isnt near Jordan or never will be because of the fact that he is only 25, and Jordan had a GREAT career, so let Kobe's career play out and see what happens.

Then, for this same reason, you cant say he is near Jordan. You really cant debate either side.

<hr /></blockquote>

Do you realize what MJ did individually by his 3rd year? Something noone has done since in the L.

23 · 07-14-2004, 01:24 AM

Re: Do the Kobe critics even know the basics?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Slip said:
But honestly, it goes both way with the comparisons because of it.

Of course you cant say Kobe isnt near Jordan or never will be because of the fact that he is only 25, and Jordan had a GREAT career, so let Kobe's career play out and see what happens.

Then, for this same reason, you cant say he is near Jordan. You really cant debate either side.

<hr /></blockquote>

Do you realize what MJ did individually by his 3rd year? Something noone has done since in the L.

**sonofsiam** · 07-14-2004, 01:26 AM

Re: Do the Kobe critics even know the basics?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
KDRE said:

MJ didn't curse Phil out. He knew Phil was important to winning. Kobe just didn't care. MJ never got Phil fired, or Pip traded or any of this madness Kobe is in the middle of.

<hr /></blockquote>

How soon they all forget. You do know MJ got one coach fired and multiple team mates traded.

In the end, he WON. And basically, that's all that matters. If Kobe wins, it will be the same.

**sonofsiam** · 07-14-2004, 01:26 AM

Re: Do the Kobe critics even know the basics?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
KDRE said:

MJ didn't curse Phil out. He knew Phil was important to winning. Kobe just didn't care. MJ never got Phil fired, or Pip traded or any of this madness Kobe is in the middle of.

<hr /></blockquote>

How soon they all forget. You do know MJ got one coach fired and multiple team mates traded.

In the end, he WON. And basically, that's all that matters. If Kobe wins, it will be the same.

**sonofsiam** · 07-14-2004, 01:26 AM

Re: Do the Kobe critics even know the basics?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
KDRE said:

MJ didn't curse Phil out. He knew Phil was important to winning. Kobe just didn't care. MJ never got Phil fired, or Pip traded or any of this madness Kobe is in the middle of.

<hr /></blockquote>

How soon they all forget. You do know MJ got one coach fired and multiple team mates traded.

In the end, he WON. And basically, that's all that matters. If Kobe wins, it will be the same.

23 · 07-14-2004, 01:30 AM

Re: Do the Kobe critics even know the basics?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
sonofsiam said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
KDRE said:

MJ didn't curse Phil out. He knew Phil was important to winning. Kobe just didn't care. MJ never got Phil fired, or Pip traded or any of this madness Kobe is in the middle of.

<hr /></blockquote>

How soon they all forget. You do know MJ got one coach fired and multiple team mates traded.

In the end, he WON. And basically, that's all that matters. If Kobe wins, it will be the same.

<hr /></blockquote>

You mean Collins? You know Collins got fired trying to get Krause fired right? He also as I said didn't curse out a winnig HOF coach, or backstab him to get him the pink slip or go on public record saying how he didn't care for him as a person.

23 · 07-14-2004, 01:30 AM

Re: Do the Kobe critics even know the basics?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
sonofsiam said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
KDRE said:

MJ didn't curse Phil out. He knew Phil was important to winning. Kobe just didn't care. MJ never got Phil fired, or Pip traded or any of this madness Kobe is in the middle of.

<hr /></blockquote>

How soon they all forget. You do know MJ got one coach fired and multiple team mates traded.

In the end, he WON. And basically, that's all that matters. If Kobe wins, it will be the same.

<hr /></blockquote>

You mean Collins? You know Collins got fired trying to get Krause fired right? He also as I said didn't curse out a winnig HOF coach, or backstab him to get him the pink slip or go on public record saying how he didn't care for him as a person.

23 · 07-14-2004, 01:30 AM

Re: Do the Kobe critics even know the basics?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
sonofsiam said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
KDRE said:

MJ didn't curse Phil out. He knew Phil was important to winning. Kobe just didn't care. MJ never got Phil fired, or Pip traded or any of this madness Kobe is in the middle of.

<hr /></blockquote>

How soon they all forget. You do know MJ got one coach fired and multiple team mates traded.

In the end, he WON. And basically, that's all that matters. If Kobe wins, it will be the same.

<hr /></blockquote>

You mean Collins? You know Collins got fired trying to get Krause fired right? He also as I said didn't curse out a winnig HOF coach, or backstab him to get him the pink slip or go on public record saying how he didn't care for him as a person.

**Leon** · 07-14-2004, 01:33 AM

Re: Do the Kobe critics even know the basics?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
sonofsiam said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
KDRE said:

MJ didn't curse Phil out. He knew Phil was important to winning. Kobe just didn't care. MJ never got Phil fired, or Pip traded or any of this madness Kobe is in the middle of.

<hr /></blockquote>

How soon they all forget. You do know MJ got one coach fired and multiple team mates traded.

In the end, he WON. And basically, that's all that matters. If Kobe wins, it will be the same.

<hr /></blockquote>

Name these teammates please.

From what I remember, most if not all of Krause's moves had nothing to do with MJ wanting people traded or signed. He, in fact, did the opposite, he pissed Jordan off with his deals. Some great, some not.

**Leon** · 07-14-2004, 01:33 AM

Re: Do the Kobe critics even know the basics?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
sonofsiam said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
KDRE said:

MJ didn't curse Phil out. He knew Phil was important to winning. Kobe just didn't care. MJ never got Phil fired, or Pip traded or any of this madness Kobe is in the middle of.

<hr /></blockquote>

How soon they all forget. You do know MJ got one coach fired and multiple team mates traded.

In the end, he WON. And basically, that's all that matters. If Kobe wins, it will be the same.

<hr /></blockquote>

Name these teammates please.

From what I remember, most if not all of Krause's moves had nothing to do with MJ wanting people traded or signed. He, in fact, did the opposite, he pissed Jordan off with his deals. Some great, some not.

**Leon** · 07-14-2004, 01:33 AM

Re: Do the Kobe critics even know the basics?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
sonofsiam said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
KDRE said:

MJ didn't curse Phil out. He knew Phil was important to winning. Kobe just didn't care. MJ never got Phil fired, or Pip traded or any of this madness Kobe is in the middle of.

<hr /></blockquote>

How soon they all forget. You do know MJ got one coach fired and multiple team mates traded.

In the end, he WON. And basically, that's all that matters. If Kobe wins, it will be the same.

<hr /></blockquote>

Name these teammates please.

From what I remember, most if not all of Krause's moves had nothing to do with MJ wanting people traded or signed. He, in fact, did the opposite, he pissed Jordan off with his deals. Some great, some not.

**sonofsiam** · 07-14-2004, 01:36 AM

Re: Do the Kobe critics even know the basics?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
KDRE said:
Question, if we are comparing Kobe to Jordan , why does Kobe need something tailor made to his game.

As you seem to want to imply, the triangle wasn't tailor made for Jordan's game. Yet he used it as a lethal weapon against his opponents.

Why then is was the triangle not good enough for Kobe Bryant? Is Kobe special? Is Kobe better than his Airness?

Jordan, like Shaq, wanted to leave after Jackson left. Apparently, Jordan not only had no problem with adapting his game to the system, he embraced it.

Kobe, no so. Maybe if they had kept Jackson and dumped Shaq, Kobe could have seen the beauty of this "stifling" offense, the same offense that stifled Jordan.

Next please.

<hr /></blockquote>

Okay..............because your slowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww........the system and pieces were not built for Kobe. Is that hard to work out. I didn't see the Bulls dump it into their Centre. I didn't see the "role players" built around the post game.

In 3 years, this arguement will be reduntant. The simple facts are, I don't know if it will all work. I don't know if Kobe will ever end up at MJ's level. Larry Brown thinks he can. So does Rudy T. But, facts are, neither of them can be sure.

I never professed it will work out. I merely said "here's his chance". As someone who is not a Laker fan, I won't lose any sleep if it fails miserably. It will be interesting though as a basketball fan.

Of course though, KDRE knows better than us all. Next please, move along son, KDRE is here to tell us what will work or not.In fact, KDRE why on earth aren't you a GM in the NBA. You know more about basketball and players talent levels and personalitities than all of us combined.

I feel so honoured to even share this board with you champion. Your the man

**sonofsiam** · 07-14-2004, 01:36 AM

Re: Do the Kobe critics even know the basics?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
KDRE said:
Question, if we are comparing Kobe to Jordan , why does Kobe need something tailor made to his game.

As you seem to want to imply, the triangle wasn't tailor made for Jordan's game. Yet he used it as a lethal weapon against his opponents.

Why then is was the triangle not good enough for Kobe Bryant? Is Kobe special? Is Kobe better than his Airness?

Jordan, like Shaq, wanted to leave after Jackson left. Apparently, Jordan not only had no problem with adapting his game to the system, he embraced it.

Kobe, no so. Maybe if they had kept Jackson and dumped Shaq, Kobe could have seen the beauty of this "stifling" offense, the same offense that stifled Jordan.

Next please.

<hr /></blockquote>

Okay..............because your slowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww........the system and pieces were not built for Kobe. Is that hard to work out. I didn't see the Bulls dump it into their Centre. I didn't see the "role players" built around the post game.

In 3 years, this arguement will be reduntant. The simple facts are, I don't know if it will all work. I don't know if Kobe will ever end up at MJ's level. Larry Brown thinks he can. So does Rudy T. But, facts are, neither of them can be sure.

I never professed it will work out. I merely said "here's his chance". As someone who is not a Laker fan, I won't lose any sleep if it fails miserably. It will be interesting though as a basketball fan.

Of course though, KDRE knows better than us all. Next please, move along son, KDRE is here to tell us what will work or not.In fact, KDRE why on earth aren't you a GM in the NBA. You know more about basketball and players talent levels and personalitities than all of us combined.

I feel so honoured to even share this board with you champion. Your the man

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Do the Kobe critics even know the basics?

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