The Finals: Cleveland Cavaliers vs. Golden St. Warriors Part 2

[DieHardYankee26]

Re: The Finals: Cleveland Cavaliers vs. Golden St. Warriors Part 2

Why would you mention players who dont fit the criteria though? I'm not interested in dogging on Steph Curry in the slightest but the MVP has made it to the finals around what? 13-14 times out of the last 25 years? I don't think the circumstances are all that specific....

Well I don't even think the guy who wins MVP every year is the guy who I think should so I'd start there, also because why does it when matter that he won MVP? Is it worse for him to score 8 less than it is for LeBron to score 8.9 simply because D Rose was voted MVP that year? Is it worse that he's scoring 8 less when some dudes haven't made it at all. Even if the stat you said is right, that would mean out of 25 years almost half of them the MVP didn't even make the finals so I don't know why I'd hold his lesser scoring against him more than a guy who didn't even get there.

It's an issue of what is trying to be proven to me. If the point is Steph scored a ton in the regular season but less now, then I'd include the LeBron point in there. If the point is Steph won MVP but didn't show up in the Finals, I'd think it relevant that other MVP's LITERALLY didn't show up lol. I dont think the award is relevant now. It was for the best player in the regular season. He was that. I just don't see the relevance of MVP there, as that's just a perception award. There's an unnecessary qualifier.

[VDusen04]

Re: The Finals: Cleveland Cavaliers vs. Golden St. Warriors Part 2

Steve Nash scored 0 PPG in the Finals as an MVP 2 years in a row lol, this stat is meaningless.

Also I found that thread on Reddit and someone in there posted that LeBron averaged 8.9 less than his regular season averages in the 2011 Finals he just wasn't MVP. This is a very specific set of circumstances to fill even if it doesn't seem that way.

I don't think the stat is meaningless, but I do agree that it probably means less than many will probably want it to. This series has featured one very bad Curry shooting performance (4-15 in a big win), some incredible contributions from his Warriors teammates that required less of him offensively (perhaps in part due to the focus on limiting him personally), two blowouts that kept his minutes to 30 or less, a 38-point showing, then a 25-pointer while his teammate was in human torch mode.

If the point is merely, "Dude's not playing as well as he can." Then, yeah, true.

But then again, when you have two days off in-between each game, it's going to be a breeding ground for hot takes (TRADE KYRIE), wild conclusions (LEBRON DOESN'T HAVE THE LOOK), assumptions (CAVS ARE DONE! NO! WARRIORS ARE DONE!), and the complete exhaustion of any and all statistical breakdowns (DRAYMOND'S MISSED 20% OF HIS TEAM'S GAMES IN THE FINALS!)—some taking context into account, most not.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: The Finals: Cleveland Cavaliers vs. Golden St. Warriors Part 2

Well I don't even think the guy who wins MVP every year is the guy who I think should so I'd start there, also because why does it when matter that he won MVP? Is it worse for him to score 8 less than it is for LeBron to score 8.9 simply because D Rose was voted MVP that year? Is it worse that he's scoring 8 less when some dudes haven't made it at all. Even if the stat you said is right, that would mean out of 25 years almost half of them the MVP didn't even make the finals so I don't know why I'd hold his lesser scoring against him more than a guy who didn't even get there.

It's an issue of what is trying to be proven to me. If the point is Steph scored a ton in the regular season but less now, then I'd include the LeBron point in there. If the point is Steph won MVP but didn't show up in the Finals, I'd think it relevant that other MVP's LITERALLY didn't show up lol. I dont think the award is relevant now. It was for the best player in the regular season. He was that. I just don't see the relevance of MVP there, as that's just a perception award. There's an unnecessary qualifier.

Fair points, and to be honest, you could probably dissect all the blurbs like this that are put out here. I suppose the idea is that the MVP of the league more than anyone should elevate his game on that stage....of course there are a lot of underlying factors you can't identify just looking at the numbers.

Like i said, I wasn't advocating the stat- I just thought it was pretty straightforward....you raise some good questions though...

[areobee401]

Re: The Finals: Cleveland Cavaliers vs. Golden St. Warriors Part 2

I don't think the stat is meaningless, but I do agree that it probably means less than many will probably want it to (series has featured one very bad Curry shooting performance (4-15 in a big win), some incredible contributions from his Warriors teammates that required less of him offensively (perhaps in part due to the focus on limiting him personally), two blowouts that kept his minutes to 30 or less, a 38-point showing, then a 25-pointer while his teammate was in human torch mode.

If the point is merely, "Dude's not playing as well as he can." Then, yeah, true.

But then again, when you have two days off in-between each game, it's going to be a breeding ground for hot takes (TRADE KYRIE), wild conclusions (LEBRON DOESN'T HAVE THE LOOK), assumptions (CAVS ARE DONE! NO! WARRIORS ARE DONE!), and the complete exhaustion of any and all statistical breakdowns (DRAYMOND'S MISSED 20% OF HIS TEAM'S GAMES IN THE FINALS!)—some taking context into account, most not.

You missed my favorite (CAVS SHOULD THINK ABOUT NOT PLAYING KEVIN LOVE AT ALL) take. This was a real thing after games 1 and 2.

[areobee401]

Re: The Finals: Cleveland Cavaliers vs. Golden St. Warriors Part 2

Craig Sager will work as a sidleline reporter for ESPN Thursday night.

[phenom1990]

Re: The Finals: Cleveland Cavaliers vs. Golden St. Warriors Part 2

Craig Sager will work as a sidleline reporter for ESPN Thursday night.

I was hoping this would happen since the WCF ended.

[King_B_Mack]

Re: The Finals: Cleveland Cavaliers vs. Golden St. Warriors Part 2

Craig Sager will work as a sidleline reporter for ESPN Thursday night.

Cool move by ESPN, can't even hate them for this. Craig LOVES his job and it's good to see him get the chance to do what he loves for what could be the last basketball game of the season and could (hopefully not) be the last postseason basketball game of his life.

[wwharton]

Re: The Finals: Cleveland Cavaliers vs. Golden St. Warriors Part 2

Fair points, and to be honest, you could probably dissect all the blurbs like this that are put out here. I suppose the idea is that the MVP of the league more than anyone should elevate his game on that stage....of course there are a lot of underlying factors you can't identify just looking at the numbers.

Like i said, I wasn't advocating the stat- I just thought it was pretty straightforward....you raise some good questions though...

I also think too much heat gets put on the best player when they take a dip in the finals. Teams have to gameplan for one team, and they often throw everything but the kitchen sink at the best player and force others to beat them. It was similar when the Lakers won and everyone was getting on Kobe while Gasol "outplayed" him. The reality is the Celtics did all they could to stop Kobe and he (surprisingly for him) helped move the ball to get Gasol good looks.

The Warriors have plenty of other capable options so they just move the ball. Curry has really only had one BAD game. But even in games he's scored a lot he's made some questionable passes and taken some ill advised 3's (even for him). I think there's room to criticize but this is probably the wrong angle to do it.

[23]

Re: The Finals: Cleveland Cavaliers vs. Golden St. Warriors Part 2

I also think too much heat gets put on the best player when they take a dip in the finals. Teams have to gameplan for one team, and they often throw everything but the kitchen sink at the best player and force others to beat them. It was similar when the Lakers won and everyone was getting on Kobe while Gasol "outplayed" him. The reality is the Celtics did all they could to stop Kobe and he (surprisingly for him) helped move the ball to get Gasol good looks.

The Warriors have plenty of other capable options so they just move the ball. Curry has really only had one BAD game. But even in games he's scored a lot he's made some questionable passes and taken some ill advised 3's (even for him). I think there's room to criticize but this is probably the wrong angle to do it.

Except Harrison Barnes

[The 24th Letter]

Re: The Finals: Cleveland Cavaliers vs. Golden St. Warriors Part 2

[cima]

Re: The Finals: Cleveland Cavaliers vs. Golden St. Warriors Part 2

You missed my favorite (CAVS SHOULD THINK ABOUT NOT PLAYING KEVIN LOVE AT ALL) take. This was a real thing after games 1 and 2.

Yeah benching him entirely is foolish but to be fair, you expect a lot more out of your MAX player than the 9/6 on 37% shooting that he's providing.

His situation is kind of fascinating. He works just fine in his role on the Cavs against 28 other teams in the league. But the one he doesn't just happens to be the champs. So it's like...do you get rid of a guy that can help you against 97% of the league but not the outlier 3%? But that outlier is likely the team you have to beat to win it all...very interesting dilemma, not sure if we've seen anything like it before.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: The Finals: Cleveland Cavaliers vs. Golden St. Warriors Part 2

Am I crazy to think that him being out can have the same effect that Kendrick Perkins getting hurt in Game 6 of the 2010 Finals had on the Celtics?

They had the bodies to withstand the impact of losing him at the time, but then watching the last game and a half of that series, you can tell he was missed.

Serious question BTW.

[cima]

Re: The Finals: Cleveland Cavaliers vs. Golden St. Warriors Part 2

Am I crazy to think that him being out can have the same effect that Kendrick Perkins getting hurt in Game 6 of the 2010 Finals had on the Celtics?

They had the bodies to withstand the impact of losing him at the time, but then watching the last game and a half of that series, you can tell he was missed.

Serious question BTW.

Definitely. Bogut was playing somewhere around 15 minutes at C. Draymond can't play center the entire game and when he's not, now you're gonna have Festus, Floppy, or Mo in there, and Cavs' eyes are gonna light up. Those 15 minutes are going to be absolutely crucial.

[BleacherBum2310]

Re: The Finals: Cleveland Cavaliers vs. Golden St. Warriors Part 2

Warriors net rating w/Bogut is -9.3, +7.0 without him. They will miss him because their others options are horrible when they play a big.

[ojandpizza]

Re: The Finals: Cleveland Cavaliers vs. Golden St. Warriors Part 2

For all the talk about Curry looking hurt I really feel as if something looks off about Love.

Regardless, it is odd and you do question his fit moving forward. The games he plays well they likely could have won regardless, the games they really need the extra option he's kind of a no show. It's an odd dilemma.

Ideally you could find a better fit or fits, we said that before the trade even happened though.. But realistically you've got a tiny window to compete for a ring and this team has made two straight finals and already found chemistry as a core. You keep him and he can't produce against GS you may never win a ring, you trade him and it's a poor fit you also may never win a ring. It's a tricky situation, but I believe they're basically stuck rolling with him regardless.

Even if it is just a "bad fit", or poor role, no team will offer what he's worth after this production dip. So I'm not sure them trading him would be a good idea anyways.




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