2017 Offseason Thread

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

As already mentioned in here a few days ago and now again thanks to Zach Lowe. The Bucks offer is better. Middleton is already Crowder (or better) and Brogdon is what you hope you're getting out of that Brooklyn pick. Add in the first round pick they'd include and Cavs are set for now and when LeBron walks out that door.


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People are hoping a top 5 pick in a strong draft turns into an average starter?

[ricky24]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

I'm thinking CLE is hoping that pick turns into more than a player like Brogdon.

[scottyp180]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

Mad disrespect to Zizic.

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Future MVP and HOFer no doubt!

With regards to which offer is better I do think one edge with the Celtics offer is that the Brooklyn pick not only has great potential but it has great trade value as well. Same with Crowder. If the Cavs trade for Brogdon and Middleton then they are betting on them being their future. I can't see them flipping those players for something else. Whereas with the Brooklyn pick the Cavs can dangle it out there for a significant piece. Crowder and his contract is also an enticing trade chip either this year or next.

I'd say either way the Cavs are in a pretty good spot. They essentially have to trade Kyrie at this point and right now the two top offers are ones that keep them in contention this year while also giving them promise for the future. If LeBron leaves they are in a spot to rebuild, if he stays they are still at or near the top of the east.

Edit: I do wonder if Brogdon's age can be viewed as an issue. He's going to be 25 in December in only his second year in the NBA. Do you take that over a 20 year old kid that can have a higher ceiling (which is what that Nets pick should be).

[jeebs9]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

If I were Cavs I'd cancel this trade. If Kyrie has to come back and play the season. Then so be it. I would not put any money with picks (Michael Porter JR and Marvin Bagle or injured players)

[jeebs9]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

Kyrie waiting so long in the game to ask for a trade is partly what messed all this up. If he asked right the Finals maybe this goes smoother

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That's exactly what I said!! He wouldn't be in this mess.

[jeebs9]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

Good article from Zach Lowe breaking the trade down:

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20501557/zach-lowe-celtics-cavaliers-kyrie-irving-isaiah-thomas-trade-nba

Main nuggets of info:

• Bucks have offered Brogdon and Middleton, but no 1st round pick yet. But it's believed that they'd include a pick if that were enough to get it done.
• Phoenix isn't interested anymore
• Nuggets probably could have gotten him but weren't willing to make a strong offer.
• Believes Danny Ainge acknowledges how big of a risk Isaiah's hip is based on the fact that the Brooklyn pick is unprotected
• Boston didn't want Jimmy Butler because they think he and Hayward wouldn't get along personality-wise
• Boston is hoping to use Kyrie to recruit Anthony Davis if he ever becomes available

Love this guy!! Only writer I respect.

[CMH]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

Kyrie waiting so long in the game to ask for a trade is partly what messed all this up. If he asked right the Finals maybe this goes smoother

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I thought reports said Kyrie asked after the Finals.

It only became public a month after.

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[ricky24]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

If I were Cavs I'd cancel this trade. If Kyrie has to come back and play the season. Then so be it. I would not put any money with picks (Michael Porter JR and Marvin Bagle or injured players)

You are pretending IT is the most important part of the deal to the cavs. He's not. They are just using him as leverage. It's gonna look silly/embarrassing for the cavs when this all gets settled with a crappy draft pick.

[scottyp180]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

If I were Cavs I'd cancel this trade. If Kyrie has to come back and play the season. Then so be it. I would not put any money with picks (Michael Porter JR and Marvin Bagle or injured players)

No matter what they do there are risks involved:

-They can keep Kyrie but they might not get better offers than what the Celtics and Bucks are offering. That also almost ensures LeBron is gone if they arent making any moves to improve or change the team for now and the future.

-They can make the trade with Boston and take a chance on IT getting healthy and being ready for a run in the playoffs. They also get the Brooklyn pick that can be used in another trade or become a top 5 pick (in which case they draft a top prospect or trade for a star caliber player). This trade gives them options to entice LeBron to stay.

-They can vetoe the Boston trade and negotiate with Milwaukee. Brogdon and Middleton are younger players with upside that can contribute now and in the future. If they can get a 1st Rd draft pick as well that helps. LeBron might consider staying as well based on how the season goes.

People say Cleveland has leverage but they are in a tough spot. They don't want to botch this and be in a spot where LeBron bolts and teams are low balling for Kyrie, leaving Cavs with Paul George and Jimmy Butler type trade deals.

[jeebs9]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

You are pretending IT is the most important part of the deal to the cavs. He's not. They are just using him as leverage. It's gonna look silly/embarrassing for the cavs when this all gets settled with a crappy draft pick.

Agree... I'd cancel still

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[jeebs9]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

I thought reports said Kyrie asked after the Finals.

It only became public a month after.

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I couldn't find a place that said that. I thought it was after the meeting they had. That he wanted to be traded.

I still think the idea it stupid.

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[jeebs9]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

No matter what they do there are risks involved:

-They can keep Kyrie but they might not get better offers than what the Celtics and Bucks are offering. That also almost ensures LeBron is gone if they arent making any moves to improve or change the team for now and the future.

-They can make the trade with Boston and take a chance on IT getting healthy and being ready for a run in the playoffs. They also get the Brooklyn pick that can be used in another trade or become a top 5 pick (in which case they draft a top prospect or trade for a star caliber player). This trade gives them options to entice LeBron to stay.

-They can vetoe the Boston trade and negotiate with Milwaukee. Brogdon and Middleton are younger players with upside that can contribute now and in the future. If they can get a 1st Rd draft pick as well that helps. LeBron might consider staying as well based on how the season goes.

People say Cleveland has leverage but they are in a tough spot. They don't want to botch this and be in a spot where LeBron bolts and teams are low balling for Kyrie, leaving Cavs with Paul George and Jimmy Butler type trade deals.

If I were the Cavs I wouldn't be against LeBron is leaving. He did it once. I'd get great value for Kyrie. I wouldn't let him off this easy.

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[scottyp180]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

If I were the Cavs I wouldn't be against LeBron is leaving. He did it once. I'd get great value for Kyrie. I wouldn't let him off this easy.

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Would you though? Again look at the trades for George and Butler. Everyone was expecting the Pacers and Bulls to get a good haul for those players and after the trades went down the consensus opinion was "That's it? That's all it took to get those players?" I think Kyrie's trade value only decreases the longer this goes on for.

Also after LeBron left the Cavs were in disarray until he came back. There's not going to be another LeBron James swooping in to save the day. They need to put themselves in a position to be ready for life after LeBron.

[King_B_Mack]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

People are hoping a top 5 pick in a strong draft turns into an average starter?

Brogdon is the reigning rookie of the year and i think he'll only get better as his career progresses. You're calling him an average starter as if the dude is 8 years deep into a journeyman career. Look no further than Crowder for your image of an average starter.


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[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

"Strong Draft" are always my favorite words around this time of the year, because we literally hear this about every draft, every year.

Only sport where the Draft is always the "Best and Deepest Draft ever" 8-9 months before it's here, lol.