2017 Offseason Thread

[areobee401]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

Celtics do not belong grouped in with the Knicks and Lakers. Boston has never been a free agent destination, never mind one in the same class as New York or Los Angeles. Al Horford is the biggest free agent acquisition in the team's history. Not to mention when the Celtics suck, they are never featuted on national televised games the game the Knicks are Lakers continue to be.

Certainly better off gaining exposure playing there than some NBA cities, though.

[NYJets]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

I agree. Just look at how Porzingis got so popular immediately. Meanwhile a guy like Jokic who has probably surpassed him at this point you barely hear of. Anthony Davis? I mean he's well known, people know he's a star, but I don't think of him as a guy with this huge "brand." He absolutely would have that in a big market.

For me, Lebron is an exception. He was being talked about as the next Jordan when he was in high school, so he was going to grow a huge brand anywhere. Nobody else really has that, even the elite guys.

I think maybe the media within the big markets as sometimes overrated its impact. Writers for the local papers writing that every free agent is going to come there because "OMG itz New York!!!" But I don't think a guy like Woj is overrating it at all.

Hmm, after reading wwharton's posts and thinking some more, I guess when I'm talking about a big market helping a player's brand, i am pretty much talking about playing for the Knicks or Lakers where the exposure can be a big advantage. Not so much the rest of the "big market" teams.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

Yeah we dont really disagree all that much....

My point was more that (using Durant as an example again): He had access to phones, telepresence, etc in OKC....which is why hes already a millionare....but theres a reason hes up at places like YouTube head quarters now and not then, starting a new business being invested in by those guys thst occupy the court side seats at Oracle....like I was saying- not the stuff you're going to see a commercial for, but those other avenues he gets to dive into.

I think are yall are sleeping a bit on the tech boom out there in the 80s-90s too...a lot a 49ers are still dealing with the positive (and negative) results of investing back then back when they were racking chips up...but thats a entirely different topic, lol

[wco81]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

Supposedly Igudala has some ties to tech startups out here. And that was one of the reasons he signed here in 2011, taking a below-market deal.

But generally, I think they would want to invest through VC firms, not give a check directly to some startup company.

VC firms will do the due diligence and can determine the market opportunity of what a startup is trying to do. Even then, they could get it wrong.

But in a lot of cases, VCs are protected, almost guaranteed to get a return regardless of how the startup fares.

For instance, the VCs who invested in Twitter have already made their money, even though Twitter's future is in doubt -- I believe their stock price has dropped below their IPO price.

Or the early investors in Uber have probably guaranteed returns by now but there's a question whether Uber can make money.

Patrick Willis supposedly invested in some startup before he retired from the 49ers. Again, you would hope he had protections that VCs typically stipulate in their contracts.

Otherwise, VCs raise the capital they use to invest in startups from investors all around the world, so they have no particular reason to be in the Bay Area.

Maybe pro athletes think they could win big endorsements from tech firms but they generally don't do those kinds of deals, other than a few naming rights deals.

Lacob is a partner at one of the biggest if not the biggest VC, Kleiner Perkins. So maybe he hooked up some of the players with some deals. Some Warriors fans were speculating during last season that Lacob's connections might be an enticement to KD to lure him to the Warriors.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

Iguodala played a role in KD getting involved in the business, that I do know.


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[wwharton]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

Celtics do not belong grouped in with the Knicks and Lakers. Boston has never been a free agent destination, never mind one in the same class as New York or Los Angeles. Al Horford is the biggest free agent acquisition in the team's history. Not to mention when the Celtics suck, they are never featuted on national televised games the game the Knicks are Lakers continue to be.

Certainly better off gaining exposure playing there than some NBA cities, though.

The talk about free agent destination doesn't matter as the point was just about being a tv draw. I don't remember nearly as well as you would about that when they sucked, but had a feeling they didn't get the love the Knicks and Lakers still get so feel free to remove them.

It is strange that the Celtics and 76ers don't get the same attention the Lakers and Knicks get when they suck.

Hmm, after reading wwharton's posts and thinking some more, I guess when I'm talking about a big market helping a player's brand, i am pretty much talking about playing for the Knicks or Lakers where the exposure can be a big advantage. Not so much the rest of the "big market" teams.

I still feel that is more of a thing for young guys looking to make a name. I remember this discussion when Lebron first left Cleveland. Somebody like Lebron (or KD) doesn't need the exposure that playing for the Knicks or Lakers can bring... he IS that exposure for other players. Whatever team he's on is going to get tv time.

But that does make sense for your Porzingis example.

Yeah we dont really disagree all that much....

My point was more that (using Durant as an example again): He had access to phones, telepresence, etc in OKC....which is why hes already a millionare....but theres a reason hes up at places like YouTube head quarters now and not then, starting a new business being invested in by those guys thst occupy the court side seats at Oracle....like I was saying- not the stuff you're going to see a commercial for, but those other avenues he gets to dive into.

I think are yall are sleeping a bit on the tech boom out there in the 80s-90s too...a lot a 49ers are still dealing with the positive (and negative) results of investing back then back when they were racking chips up...but thats a entirely different topic, lol

Definitely not sleeping... I was out there for Dreamforce a few months ago, and outside of Salesforce, work in web development and have been a part of a few start ups.

But you're just focusing on the area. My point is no matter how successful the area, it wasn't enough to draw top free agents until the team was better. Having a tech boom even earlier really further proves the point.

Iggy is actually a perfect example... solid player and former all star who has interests that would benefit being out there. Do you really believe he would've gone to the Warriors if they were a lottery team at the time? Again, I know you're on the same page as me, but throwing that question out there to those who are making that argument. Unless they're trying to make movies like Shaq was, being close to business deals will be far down the list of reasons to pick a team in the 21st century.

[wco81]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

I can't remember a big free agent signing with the Knicks.

Lakers and Miami Heat are about it.

[DieHardYankee26]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

I think the key here TODAY (this was different 20 years ago as mentioned by a few) is the team winning 50 games.

But he's already won 50 games and he isn't a big star. If you believe that him winning 50 games on the Knicks would lead to him being a bigger star, wouldn't you say that the key actually is the team? I guess there's no way to prove it, but it seems extremely likely to me that if all things were equal in NY or LA, he would be huge.

[areobee401]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

The talk about free agent destination doesn't matter as the point was just about being a tv draw. I don't remember nearly as well as you would about that when they sucked, but had a feeling they didn't get the love the Knicks and Lakers still get so feel free to remove them.



It is strange that the Celtics and 76ers don't get the same attention the Lakers and Knicks get when they suck.

I used the free agent example because it highlights how the Celtics aren't viewed as a destination to gain exposure. Much like the 76ers, despite playing in a huge professional sports town, neither will ever be talked about as a destination or remain on the national tv stage without currently being successful. This is where NY and LA stand out above rest as NBA cities.

Celtics also get that tiny extra boost when things are going good. So I'm in no way complaining or making an issue of it.

[NYJets]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

I can't remember a big free agent signing with the Knicks.

Lakers and Miami Heat are about it.

Well Amare did. Melo forced his way there, so while technically not a free agent signing, is definitely a great example of wanting New York or LA to improve their brand.

But yea, for the most part in the last 15 years the Knicks have been awful and not had cap space. New York exposure isn't going to overcome that. But if they were ever competent I think they'd have an advantage over most teams.

[King_B_Mack]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

Well Amare did. Melo forced his way there, so while technically not a free agent signing, is definitely a great example of wanting New York or LA to improve their brand.



But yea, for the most part in the last 15 years the Knicks have been awful and not had cap space. New York exposure isn't going to overcome that. But if they were ever competent I think they'd have an advantage over most teams.

Melo isn't exactly a great example of proving wanting to go there to improve their brand. Melo just wanted to be in NY with his "hometown" connection. By all accounts if Phil Jackson knew then, what he knows now, he wouldn't have backed up a Brinks truck to Carmelo's house and kept him from bolting NY to Chicago a few years ago. Hell if Melo knew then what he knows now he might have put money aside for once and left.


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[The 24th Letter]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

Melo actually spoke on this:

https://www.google.com/amp/www.cbssports.com/nba/news/melo-says-business-interests-influenced-decision-to-return-to-ny/amp/

Carmelo Anthony*rejoined the*Knicks*this summer, turning down offers from the*Bulls,Rockets, and*Mavericks*that would have put him in a position to contend for a title. The extra money the Knicks could offer, $124 million being the number he landed, was certainly a factor. But the money he makes from just*being in New York*had an impact, too.

On Thursday, he appeared at a panel at Bloomberg Sports and answered a few questions, and pointed to his business interests being a major factor behind his decision to return to the Big Apple.*

Carmelo Anthony said Thursday there were business reasons in addition to basketball ones that led him to re-sign with the Knicks this offseason.

"I just couldn't leave from that perspective," he said at the Bloomberg Sports Business Summit in Manhattan. "There were so many opportunities that I started to build upon here in New York City, business opportunities, different situations, things I've already started to build here.

"I just felt if I was to leave I would have to start all over in the next place, meet new people, build that foundation up once again, and it took me a lot to build that foundation and get it up and going to where it's at right now."

Anthony spoke at length at the summit about his new company, Melo 7 Tech Partners, which focuses on investing in tech companies, most recently the secondary ticket search engine SeatGeek. (Peyton and Eli Manning also invested in the company.)

"I want to brand myself as THE digital athlete," said Anthony, who used the word "brand" often. "I really want to be the pioneer for that digital athlete and when it comes to tech I want to be the face of that space."

via*Carmelo Anthony says business a big reason he stayed with Knicks - Newsday.

EDIT: This article about Deng was also on the page- kind of going back to what I meant about the lower tier guys- just thought I'd share as its relevsnt to the conversation:

Spoiler

Deng’s ability to keep on-court developments in perspective can be traced to his philanthropy.

“If there was a way to quantify one’s ability to relate, I think Luol would be off the charts,” said Anteneh Addisu, a former Duke classmate and strategy officer for the Luol Deng Foundation. “It’s because of how diverse his journey has been.”

Deng plans to expand that journey by becoming active in Los Angeles with his philanthropy. He says it’s one of the most significant reasons why he signed with the Lakers in July. Deng’s L.A-based holding company, D3N9 has invested in JUST Water, which promotes the use of paper-based bottled water. His sports agency, Octagon, also has an L.A.-based office.

Deng has held off, so far, on brainstorming other initiatives so he could both prepare and focus on the 2016-17 season. Based on his track record, though, projects are on the horizon

[King_B_Mack]

2017 Offseason Thread

Melo actually spoke on this:

https://www.google.com/amp/www.cbssports.com/nba/news/melo-says-business-interests-influenced-decision-to-return-to-ny/amp/

EDIT: This article about Deng was also on the page- kind of going back to what I meant about the lower tier guys- just thought I'd share as its relevsnt to the conversation:

Spoiler

Deng’s ability to keep on-court developments in perspective can be traced to his philanthropy.

“If there was a way to quantify one’s ability to relate, I think Luol would be off the charts,” said Anteneh Addisu, a former Duke classmate and strategy officer for the Luol Deng Foundation. “It’s because of how diverse his journey has been.”

Deng plans to expand that journey by becoming active in Los Angeles with his philanthropy. He says it’s one of the most significant reasons why he signed with the Lakers in July. Deng’s L.A-based holding company, D3N9 has invested in JUST Water, which promotes the use of paper-based bottled water. His sports agency, Octagon, also has an L.A.-based office.

Deng has held off, so far, on brainstorming other initiatives so he could both prepare and focus on the 2016-17 season. Based on his track record, though, projects are on the horizon

I think that goes back to what we were saying previously though. Yeah Melo said the business aspect, but he's looking like he's ready to accept a trade out of New York right now depending on who he gets to play with. That same problem of leaving his business interests is going to be there. How's he gonna do his business stuff in another city now? The same way he would have done it then. Through his partners and in the offseason when he goes back to New York or LA where he lives during the summer. Do guys think about the off court opportunities? Of course, is that really the huge impact of him deciding between the 75 million dollars he would have gotten from the Bulls and the 124 million he ended up with from the Knicks? Saying the business stuff is a nice after the fact sound bite, but I think we all know he wasn't turning down 124 million dollars, the further removed we get from it, I ain't even mad at him any more about it lol


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[TheFinalEvent97]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

What do people think are the chances of the Bucks making a big signing in FA? If Monroe opts out and they trade one of Henson or Teletovic they would have space for a max FA. I personally think they could go after a PG like Hill or Lowry, maybe even try and sign Ibaka?

[NYJets]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

I think that goes back to what we were saying previously though. Yeah Melo said the business aspect, but he's looking like he's ready to accept a trade out of New York right now depending on who he gets to play w]

Extremely reluctantly though. After 4 straight years of missing the playoffs, and after Phil has been criticizing him and now straight up saying he hopes he waives his NTC, Melo is maybe willing to leave to go to a limited amount of teams.

I don't think thats a great example of him not caring about the market that he's willing to leave under those circumstances, most people think he should have left awhile ago.