2019 Western Conference Playoffs - 2nd Round Discussion Thread

[dubcity]

Re: 2019 Western Conference Playoffs - 2nd Round Discussion Thread

https://twitter.com/Chris_Smoove/sta...254170114?s=19

Harden doesn't really shoot set shots like this though

According to Chris Smoove

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....

[The 24th Letter]

Re: 2019 Western Conference Playoffs - 2nd Round Discussion Thread

Not sure you can use that as form evaluation though..

For example:

Danny Greens form in this years 3 point contest-

https://youtu.be/hL1D28jiAXY

[VDusen04]

Re: 2019 Western Conference Playoffs - 2nd Round Discussion Thread

A lot of NBA players go a bit flat-footed in 3-point contests so I'm not sure that's a great example to pull.

We'd probably be better served watching clips from actual in-game play throughout the season, which seems to show a wide range of forward movement on shot attempts. Even his step-backs sometimes seem to have very minimal forward-foot swing then other times a bit more.

There are also a few instances where he seems to subtly stiffen that lead leg and kick it out or plant it closer to the hoop than normal when he's got a defender in the vicinity (2:05, 2:25, 3:02).

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/V48EamU_vdc" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V48EamU_vdc

Separately, I have grown weary of certain corners of the internet insisting that any closeout that ends with a defender's feet even somewhat close to where the shooter's landing space is an intentional and insanely dangerous attempt to injure an opponent. Granted, it's kind of a miracle there aren't more sprained ankles than there are, but the nature of contesting a shot is almost always bringing a defender's feet to that vicinity.

I swear it's as though many people who like to discuss basketball have never actually played basketball.

[King_B_Mack]

Re: 2019 Western Conference Playoffs - 2nd Round Discussion Thread

A lot of NBA players go a bit flat-footed in 3-point contests so I'm not sure that's a great example to pull.



We'd probably be better served watching clips from actual in-game play throughout the season, which seems to show a wide range of forward movement on shot attempts. Even his step-backs sometimes seem to have very minimal forward-foot swing then other times a bit more.



There are also a few instances where he seems to subtly stiffen that lead leg and kick it out or plant it closer to the hoop than normal when he's got a defender in the vicinity (2:05, 2:25, 3:02).



<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/V48EamU_vdc" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V48EamU_vdc

Separately, I have grown weary of certain corners of the internet insisting that any closeout that ends with a defender's feet even somewhat close to where the shooter's landing space is an intentional and insanely dangerous attempt to injure an opponent. Granted, it's kind of a miracle there aren't more sprained ankles than there are, but the nature of contesting a shot is almost always bringing a defender's feet to that vicinity.



I swear it's as though many people who like to discuss basketball have never actually played basketball.

Probably because 9 times out of 10, the dudes on the Internet you’re talking about have actually never played basketball lol


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[jeebs9]

Re: 2019 Western Conference Playoffs - 2nd Round Discussion Thread

A lot of NBA players go a bit flat-footed in 3-point contests so I'm not sure that's a great example to pull.



We'd probably be better served watching clips from actual in-game play throughout the season, which seems to show a wide range of forward movement on shot attempts. Even his step-backs sometimes seem to have very minimal forward-foot swing then other times a bit more.



There are also a few instances where he seems to subtly stiffen that lead leg and kick it out or plant it closer to the hoop than normal when he's got a defender in the vicinity (2:05, 2:25, 3:02).



<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/V48EamU_vdc" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V48EamU_vdc

Separately, I have grown weary of certain corners of the internet insisting that any closeout that ends with a defender's feet even somewhat close to where the shooter's landing space is an intentional and insanely dangerous attempt to injure an opponent. Granted, it's kind of a miracle there aren't more sprained ankles than there are, but the nature of contesting a shot is almost always bringing a defender's feet to that vicinity.



I swear it's as though many people who like to discuss basketball have never actually played basketball.

Spot on here

Jamal Crawford has that leg thing in his jumper.


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[ojandpizza]

Re: 2019 Western Conference Playoffs - 2nd Round Discussion Thread

Some of those Klay closeouts were bad. The Harden one at the end was on him. Sloppy game for both teams Warriors kept turning it over and the Rockets shooting was off.

Yeah the defense from Green was flawless. Harden kicked his legs out trying to make something out of nothing. I think he even got away with a push off just before that could have been an offensive foul. IMO

But I do think there was numerous times that Harden didn’t get the call that players have been getting all season long. I feel like I remember at least 3 times Klay should have been called.

And like I said, I’m fine with them scrapping that rule completely and only calling it when the defense clearly slides under you.. but you can’t make that type of change to how a rule works in the middle of a season like this.

[23]

Re: 2019 Western Conference Playoffs - 2nd Round Discussion Thread

I've seen plenty of Harden jumpers that didn't include him moving forward in momentum.

Let's just say he was taking some normal jumpers for arguments sake. I think some could've been calle....d but they werent all fouls because it was ALOT of flopping going on.


When i first turned on the game, I saw him do that horrendous flop where he was suddenly feet into the 3 pt line in a bruce lee foot sweep motion, which again

Dude needs to just play, and stop shooting for the foul.

I don't even wanna talk about Chris Paul..He's lost the Clippers so many games with that nonsense.

[ojandpizza]

Re: 2019 Western Conference Playoffs - 2nd Round Discussion Thread

I've seen plenty of Harden jumpers that didn't include him moving forward in momentum.

Let's just say he was taking some normal jumpers for arguments sake. I think some could've been calle....d but they werent all fouls because it was ALOT of flopping going on.


When i first turned on the game, I saw him do that horrendous flop where he was suddenly feet into the 3 pt line in a bruce lee foot sweep motion, which again

Dude needs to just play, and stop shooting for the foul.

I don't even wanna talk about Chris Paul..He's lost the Clippers so many games with that nonsense.

I agree with you, I just meant that I think a few of them were legit should have been called plays, so I can’t be too upset with him for griping.

Officials knowing he’s going to pull that stunt is probably backfiring a bit on him now. They miss a few calls that he probably would have gotten had he not fallen down for no reason all game long trying to trick them. If they would enforce that same logic during the regular season we would probably see much less of that **** from him regardless. I don’t even think D Wade, Manu, or CP3 were as bad as Harden but he gets so many more calls so why would he stop..

That last play he has nothing to gripe about. You can see the replay that he’s completely waited until the ball if out of hands, normal shooting motion, just so he can stick his legs out awkwardly after the fact without it messing up his shot. No missed call at all there, if anything they missed him pushing off before the shot and then kicking Draymond.

CP3 did look like he could have been fouled after, hard to tell for sure. So he might have had a complaint there too. But those are the type of things that either go for/against you all game long.


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[23]

Re: 2019 Western Conference Playoffs - 2nd Round Discussion Thread

I agree with you, I just meant that I think a few of them were legit should have been called plays, so I can’t be too upset with him for griping.

Officials knowing he’s going to pull that stunt is probably backfiring a bit on him now. They miss a few calls that he probably would have gotten had he not fallen down for no reason all game long trying to trick them. If they would enforce that same logic during the regular season we would probably see much less of that **** from him regardless. I don’t even think D Wade, Manu, or CP3 were as bad as Harden but he gets so many more calls so why would he stop..

That last play he has nothing to gripe about. You can see the replay that he’s completely waited until the ball if out of hands, normal shooting motion, just so he can stick his legs out awkwardly after the fact without it messing up his shot. No missed call at all there, if anything they missed him pushing off before the shot and then kicking Draymond.

CP3 did look like he could have been fouled after, hard to tell for sure. So he might have had a complaint there too. But those are the type of things that either go for/against you all game long.


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Anytime a player is balled up like a fetus after he shoots is looking for a foul.

I think the refs are correct in not letting that stuff take over the game. Its cheap and nauseating, and that kind of precedent shouldnt be set.

Talking about what happened during the regular season is irrelevant now because everyone is 0-0 again, and its gut check time.

I think he should listen to Kobe. He tried to tell him he can't win playing this style of basketball.

If their approach every game is to challenge referees instead of just taking the warriors down (since they believe they can, prove it)

and constantly flop on shots, they deserve to lose the series.

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: 2019 Western Conference Playoffs - 2nd Round Discussion Thread

I thought this article was gonna be 100% BS, but this excerpt is actually really interesting. Didn’t know this report even existed until now.

Sources: Rockets’ Game 1 ref rage rooted in extensive Warriors research https://theathletic.com/952359/2019/...iors-research/

When that series ended nearly a year ago, the Rockets’ research had just begun. They secured the play-by-play officiating reports from each game from the NBA – a service that is afforded to individual teams (teams aren’t given reports for other teams, which makes it hard to compare). These reports document the league’s verdict on correct calls and missed calls in the same way as the Last Two Minute reports that are shared publicly, with the obvious difference being that it accounts for all 48 minutes of action.

And after the Rockets went through every line, tallying all the missed calls for each team and adding up the potential points that were lost along the way, it wasn’t pretty: The Rockets, according to the sources, had a double-digit point deficit in six of the seven games (and a small edge in Game 2). In all, sources say, they were harmed to the tune of 93 points. Game 7 was the worst, the research showed, with the league-issued report indicating they should have had 18 more points. More specifically, two of the 27 consecutive missed 3-pointers that did them in were ruled to have been missed foul calls.

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[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: 2019 Western Conference Playoffs - 2nd Round Discussion Thread

Damn, officiating is different/inconsistent in the playoffs than the regular season?

I am shocked. I mean that hasn’t happened before so why is it all of a sudden happening....oh wait a minute.

[King_B_Mack]

Re: 2019 Western Conference Playoffs - 2nd Round Discussion Thread

IMG_6454.jpg

It’s not gonna happen but I hope this blows up spectacularly in their faces. The team that has the cheapest player in the entire league who gets the most pathetic calls most of us have ever seen and averages like 12 free throw attempts a game based on that bull**** doing this much whining about officiating and conducting research on some other team getting preferential treatment from refs is the most pot calling the kettle black nonsense ever.


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[Majingir]

Re: 2019 Western Conference Playoffs - 2nd Round Discussion Thread

Isn't Chris Paul the head of the NBPA? Him having as big a problem with the refs as we saw in this game, I wonder if he tries making the entire PA voice problems.

People know how NBA refs are horrible and something does need to be changed. Of the big 4 leagues, NBA officials are probably the worst among them.

Though Rockets of all teams complaining is funny given how many calls they actually get during the year. Though that could be part of it too. You might get so many calls during one part of year, and suddenly it's different.

[ojandpizza]

Re: 2019 Western Conference Playoffs - 2nd Round Discussion Thread

Damn, officiating is different/inconsistent in the playoffs than the regular season?

I am shocked. I mean that hasn’t happened before so why is it all of a sudden happening....oh wait a minute.

I think this is understood that it will happen every year. Less ticky-tack stuff, letting players play and get away with more, etc.. but some of those Harden instances aren't really letting players player more, but more so changing the way a rule is called. Good on the refs for not falling for his BS time and time again in this game, dude fell to the ground about 37 times last night, but there were also a few they absolutely should have called by definition of the way the rule is set in place. We'll likely see the same exact play called as a foul at some point in one of the games tonight and if/when that happens Harden/the Rockets will have a pretty fair argument for claiming they were likely robbed of 8-10 points last night.

To me it's fairly simple, you don't take away a players room to land just like you don't hit them across the arm. Should be automatic by definition of how the rule is, little room for judgment or differentiating for playoff rules. The big key here is deciding how much Harden comes forward to force the contact or not.. I thought plenty of times last night he kicked his legs, fell down, jerked, when there was nothing to call and the refs held their whistles just as they should.. But also a few instances where it looked pretty obvious to me that Harden didn't need any theatrics because Klay was under him. Some of the same plays people have wanted flagrants for in the past.

A lot of it falls on Harden. If he wasn't always trying to trick the refs and just playing ball he would have likely shot enough free throws last night to win them the game because he would have gotten the benefit of the doubt.. At the same time though, I do understand why he would be upset with not getting those calls because a few were missed in situations where they didn't have to be.

[ojandpizza]

Re: 2019 Western Conference Playoffs - 2nd Round Discussion Thread

[ATTACH]163614[/ATTACH]

It’s not gonna happen but I hope this blows up spectacularly in their faces. The team that has the cheapest player in the entire league who gets the most pathetic calls most of us have ever seen and averages like 12 free throw attempts a game based on that bull**** doing this much whining about officiating and conducting research on some other team getting preferential treatment from refs is the most pot calling the kettle black nonsense ever.


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I agree with this overall, but it also becomes irrelevant at this point if those same plays all the sudden aren't rewarding them and the other side is getting friendly whistles.

Personally, I don't see GS getting preferential treatment. When the Cavs beat them in the finals a lot of those games they let them play and that benefited the Cavs because it took away some of Curry's space. That's just one example, but my point is I don't sit back and notice game after game that Golden State is getting any sort of ref-bias or anything like that. Seems to be the way it is for every other team where some nights they have the advantage some nights they don't.

I do think it's worth looking in to, as I think there were 3-4 times last night that they blatantly missed some plays that have been called a foul for 3-4 years consistently.. If Houston has a legit record of instances like that over the course of multiple series/seasons there could be something to it. If they were really wronged by calls to the tune of 90something points last year, and now in game 1 likely lost the ref battle as well, maybe it's something for them to continue to look in to..

From my understanding they can only access this data from their own games, they would have to convince other teams to check the same data for their games against GS, and Houston would need to compare that data with the same for the other teams they play against as well... Otherwise they basically have nothing other than that in just their games against Golden State the refs missed a lot of calls that would have benefited Houston.. Which could be chalked up as them just falling to the ground every play and the refs having a hard time to deciding what is/isn't a foul because they are human so they swallowed the whistle.

But overall, throughout the course of the year, Houston sticks out more than any team as far as getting BS calls though, so for them to argue something like this it's almost humorous.. But a bit interesting if they actually have something substantial.