2020 Offseason Thread

**J_Posse** · 12-02-2020, 11:02 PM

Re: 2020 Offseason Thread

Originally posted by bigeastbumrush

Wall ruptured his Achilles just like KD, correct? And both missed an entire season?

They both should be talked about in the same vein if so.

Wall looked good in the few pickup game videos I’ve seen but who knows.

Except K.D. is 7 inches taller & his game isn't almost entirely based on athleticism like Wall. If anyone can have a bounce back from that injury, even into his 30's, it's a guy as skilled, physically gifted & smart as Durant.

Wall isn't just returning from one lower leg injury either. Remember that he's also had a lot of trouble with his left knee & has had surgery on it multiple times.

He's essentially coming back like Kobe after his repeated lower leg injuries that culminated in the achilles tear that zapped him of all his explosiveness/athleticism.

Durant situation is similar to Rudy Gay & we can all agree that K.D. is a lot more talented than Rudy.

Official HQ of Bills Backer/Spurs Nation

**dubcity** · 12-02-2020, 11:26 PM

Re: 2020 Offseason Thread

Originally posted by georgiafan

While I’m not a Westbrook fan by any means I think it’s a good trade for Washington and they are the clear winners easily worth the protected pick. This should also confirm they are in the play in games for the playoff atleast. They have a solid 8 guys now on paper.

The biggest reason is Russell has always been healthy and wall hasn’t played in 2 years. He is coming off the worst injury you can have In the sport. When he comes back if doesn’t look the same or gets hurt then your stuck with him and you might have to trade Beal. For all his flaws Russell is going to play every night, compete and try to win. He is going to put up stats and was 3rd team all NBA last year on 27,7 and 7 I’ll take that over wall who hasn’t played in 2 years. If he puts up similar numbers this year then he becomes a lot more tradeable then wall.

I'd rather be Houston. Wall is a more efficient scorer and more of a point guard than Westbrook. I'm thinking Houston looks more like they did when they had Chris Paul. Nearly beat the Warriors in the WCF that one year. Yes I'm assuming he'll be somewhat healthy, which is an assumption. But RWB is older.

**jeebs9** · 12-03-2020, 12:44 AM

Re: 2020 Offseason Thread

Originally posted by bigeastbumrush

Wall ruptured his Achilles just like KD, correct? And both missed an entire season?

They both should be talked about in the same vein if so.

Wall looked good in the few pickup game videos I’ve seen but who knows.

Originally posted by J_Posse

Except K.D. is 7 inches taller & his game isn't almost entirely based on athleticism like Wall. If anyone can have a bounce back from that injury, even into his 30's, it's a guy as skilled, physically gifted & smart as Durant.

Wall isn't just returning from one lower leg injury either. Remember that he's also had a lot of trouble with his left knee & has had surgery on it multiple times.

He's essentially coming back like Kobe after his repeated lower leg injuries that culminated in the achilles tear that zapped him of all his explosiveness/athleticism.

Durant situation is similar to Rudy Gay & we can all agree that K.D. is a lot more talented than Rudy.

Official HQ of Bills Backer/Spurs Nation

We will see Gentlemen... we will see...

**J_Posse** · 12-03-2020, 03:10 AM

Re: 2020 Offseason Thread

Originally posted by dubcity

I'd rather be Houston. Wall is a more efficient scorer and more of a point guard than Westbrook. I'm thinking Houston looks more like they did when they had Chris Paul. Nearly beat the Warriors in the WCF that one year. Yes I'm assuming he'll be somewhat healthy, which is an assumption. But RWB is older.

Wall is just as inefficient on offense with an erratic jumpshot like Russ. He's also coming off a career altering injury that only 'Nique came back to all-star form after it.

I'd say it is a wash if all things are equal & Wall was 100%, but the Wizards dump a guy coming off a terrible injury, who likely will never produce like his pre - injury self.

Russ is still an all-star caliber player, isn't coming back from a severe injury & has a familiar (although enabling) face in Scott Brooks to play under.

Too many unknowns with Houston & Wall to say they've won anything out of this deal.

Official HQ of Bills Backer/Spurs Nation

**J_Posse** · 12-03-2020, 03:15 AM

Re: 2020 Offseason Thread

Originally posted by jeebs9

We will see Gentlemen... we will see...

What's there to see, Jeebs?

Guys who got done in by an achilles tear/rupture: DeMarcus Cousins, Kobe Bryant, Chauncey Billups, Elton Brand, etc., etc., etc.

Guys who recovered to look good or decent: Dominique Wilkins, Rudy Gay, ????

Wall looks good in open gyms & training, yes, but once he has 10, 20 or more games under him & his legs get heavy? Or once he needs to explode past someone & finish through two defenders?

I really hope I'm wrong cause the guy was electric in his prime, made the Wizards relevant (IMO) & fun to watch for nearly a decade, but history ain't on his side.

Official HQ of Bills Backer/Spurs Nation

**illwill10** · 12-03-2020, 07:41 AM

Re: 2020 Offseason Thread

"All-NBA forward Anthony Davis is finalizing a five-year, $190M maximum contract to stay with the Los Angeles Lakers, @KlutchSports CEO Rich Paul tells ESPN. The deal includes an early termination option prior to fifth season in 2024-2025. Deal could be signed as soon as today."

**itsmb8** · 12-03-2020, 08:26 AM

Re: 2020 Offseason Thread

Gotta think AD signing a 5-year max pretty much guarantees Giannis signs the supermax. The original most likely landing spots for him were: Miami, the Lakers, Toronto, and Golden State, with the Clips and Dallas as dark horses.

Lets start with the top 2: Miami resigned Bam to a lengthy max and AD just signed for 5. If people felt like Giannis was likely to leave, Miami would've been hesitant on a Bam extension and AD would have signed a 1+1. So those two moves basically are dead giveaway on their own.

Now, Toronto. resigning FVV to 4/$84 means it would have to be a trade, and idk if they really have the assets for it.

Golden State... I think it would have to at the very least start with Wiseman and Wiggins and a ton of picks. However, Klay's injuries and Curry's age might put Giannis off on GS.

Clips.. theyre in full disarray right now, I doubt this happens.

That just leaves Dallas who hasn't really seemed to shift away from 2021.

**ojandpizza** · 12-03-2020, 12:55 PM

Re: 2020 Offseason Thread

I never thought Giannis was going to leave, didn't really want him to unless it was somewhere like Miami anyways.. But I kinda assumed the Bam contract might mean they thought the odds of getting him were pretty low, and now Bron and AD signing as well.. We'll see how it plays out but shouldn't we be expecting him to sign any time now?

**Yeah...THAT Guy** · 12-03-2020, 01:37 PM

Re: 2020 Offseason Thread

Originally posted by ojandpizza

I never thought Giannis was going to leave, didn't really want him to unless it was somewhere like Miami anyways.. But I kinda assumed the Bam contract might mean they thought the odds of getting him were pretty low, and now Bron and AD signing as well.. We'll see how it plays out but shouldn't we be expecting him to sign any time now?

Seems like most of the league and the people covering it expect him to sign but I'm not going to feel confident about it until after it happens.

He has until the 21st so really up to him whether he wants to get it over with or if he wants to just get back to practicing with the team for a bit first or whatever.

He did an interview in Greek that came out recently where they speculated that he's likely going to sign but will probably wait until after training camp ends because he views training camp as team duties that he needs to complete before he worries about a contract.

**Master Live 013** · 12-03-2020, 03:32 PM

Re: 2020 Offseason Thread

Originally posted by allBthere

I don't think so. I believe that would be unconstitutional or something to that effect.

Even though I'm Canadian, I love the fierce mistrust Americans have for their own government (I'm being 100% serious). It always gives me hope that we will not turn into some minority report BS. I don't think you can prevent people who didn't get a measles vaccine from attending sports/flights etc. It's something of a personal choice? The legal ramifications would be pretty intense. And even though it may provide some level of short-term convenience the long term president would be too negative to allow for that.

When I said stadium/arenas I was referring to private business requiring proof of vaccination motu proprio, without being mandated by the government. I'm not discussing whether if they should, but that they (meaning private businesses) could.

^^^ That regarding a private business-customer relationship.

Originally posted by allBthere

Another point of interest for me is the Moderna/Pfizer approach (new Rna) vs the Oxford Uni (traditional one). Personally I will not get the new one and would only consider taking the traditional method for myself and my family. The newer ones also have creepy application methods and other associated technology I'm not down with and it will be interesting to see how leagues like the NBA handles vaccines (let alone fans!). I'm not sure they can force players to take the vaccine (new or otherwise)... I'm not even sure if you can have an "opt out/opt in" program because you're basing employment on taking a vaccine at that point which again, I think is a personal choice.

Regarding the employer-employee relationship.

In March 2020, the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (“EEOC”) issued COVID-19 guidance specifically addressing the issue of whether employers covered by the Americans With Disabilities Act (“ADA”) and Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (“Title VII”) can compel all employees to take the influenza vaccine (noting that there is not yet a COVID-19 vaccine).

Employer Mandated Coronavirus Vaccinations?

https://www.natlawreview.com/article/vaccine-coming-can-employers-require-employees-to-take-it

As clinical trials continue across the world for a COVID-19 vaccine, many employers are asking whether they will be able to require employees to take the vaccine when it becomes available in the United States. Like with so many questions surrounding COVID-19, the answer is not entirely clear. In general, employers can require vaccination as a term and condition of employment, but such practice is not without limitations or always recommended.

Two exceptions:

...the EEOC explained that an employee could be entitled to an exemption from a mandatory vaccination under the ADA based on a disability that prevents the employee from taking the vaccine...

Employer Mandated Coronavirus Vaccinations?

https://www.natlawreview.com/article/vaccine-coming-can-employers-require-employees-to-take-it

As clinical trials continue across the world for a COVID-19 vaccine, many employers are asking whether they will be able to require employees to take the vaccine when it becomes available in the United States. Like with so many questions surrounding COVID-19, the answer is not entirely clear. In general, employers can require vaccination as a term and condition of employment, but such practice is not without limitations or always recommended.

or

...Additionally, Title VII provides that once an employer receives notice that an employee’s sincerely held religious belief, practice, or observance prevents the employee from taking the vaccine...
https://www.natlawreview.com/article...ees-to-take-it

The NBA could indeed base employment on taking a vaccine. And it would indeed be a personal choice, the player could choose to be vaccinated and play or not be vaccinated and not play. That's their personal choice. There is no right to play in the NBA.

With all that being said, as the article states:

In light of these exemptions and the risk of discrimination, the EEOC has advised that it is best practice to simply encourage employees to take the influenza vaccine rather than to mandate it. Although we can presume that the EEOC will issue similar guidance when a COVID-19 vaccine is approved, the threat imposed by COVID-19 to the health and safety of others may make employers more inclined to require vaccination.https://www.natlawreview.com/article...ees-to-take-it

So, with all that said, would I expect Adam Silver to require COVID-19 vaccination from the players without consulting the NBPA? Of course not. If it is require at all it will be pre-negotiated with the NBPA before Silver goes anywhere near this topic.

In general, if left to their own devices, employers will eventually take 1 of 3 stances: require vaccination, encourage vaccination and ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I could indeed foresee litigation on whether the power of the state and/or businesses to require a vaccine covers one based on new technology which hasn't been studied for as long as other vaccines that are commonly required but have been around for decades.

Originally posted by allBthere

I think if you start seeing a pluralistic approach like the one you are alluding to regarding fans, eventually, you'll see major blow-back from the public demanding an end to that type of doing business.

I'm also not judging those who would run out and get the new one - I just don't want to be the first in such a rushed environment.

This topic is much bigger than sports - but one of the new techs can create an invisible tattoo which can be scanned via infra-red. So the boarding call for your flight is announced and they scan everyone's forearm to make sure they have had their shot. Not sure I want to live in a world like that.

It could go that way, it could also go that people after more than a year of death and havoc are just tired of all this and would welcome arenas/stadiums requiring proof of vaccination so everyone inside can yell and scream to their hearts content like we used to while being in a relatively COVID-19 free environment.
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**allBthere** · 12-04-2020, 12:17 PM

Re: 2020 Offseason Thread

Originally posted by Master Live 013

When I said stadium/arenas I was referring to private business requiring proof of vaccination motu proprio, without being mandated by the government. I'm not discussing whether if they should, but that they (meaning private businesses) could.

^^^ That regarding a private business-customer relationship.

Regarding the employer-employee relationship.

Two exceptions:

or

The NBA could indeed base employment on taking a vaccine. And it would indeed be a personal choice, the player could choose to be vaccinated and play or not be vaccinated and not play. That's their personal choice. There is no right to play in the NBA.

With all that being said, as the article states:

So, with all that said, would I expect Adam Silver to require COVID-19 vaccination from the players without consulting the NBPA? Of course not. If it is require at all it will be pre-negotiated with the NBPA before Silver goes anywhere near this topic.

In general, if left to their own devices, employers will eventually take 1 of 3 stances: require vaccination, encourage vaccination and ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I could indeed foresee litigation on whether the power of the state and/or businesses to require a vaccine covers one based on new technology which hasn't been studied for as long as other vaccines that are commonly required but have been around for decades.

It could go that way, it could also go that people after more than a year of death and havoc are just tired of all this and would welcome arenas/stadiums requiring proof of vaccination so everyone inside can yell and scream to their hearts content like we used to while being in a relatively COVID-19 free environment.
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awesome post brother, quite interesting to read. For me, regarding the last point, it's not so much the short-term benefits which are quite obvious. It's the long-term unintended consequences that are a problem when it comes to a wide-spread pluralistic approach where you confirm vaccinations to allow more 'freedom' or 'participation' ...

The laws are fascinating too because I don't agree with them, but there is nothing anyone can do in the near term and no-one to argue them with. For example the point about religion and it being legitimate or not has always irked me. Like how is my unease towards a new un-proven technology any less valid than a Muslim or Scientology or Christian belief. I think it's possible that any given individual can feel MORE strongly about a given subject than a random sample of followers of a given religion. Why is MEMBERSHIP so important? It's like "I can't take the 2021 covid-19 vaccine because I'm a Johova's witness, and therefore can still play in the NBA, but Johnny over there can't because he's been looking at all the scientific data and isn't convinced it's safe long-term'. In my example the JW can "opt out" potentially using religion as an excuse while the other dude cannot - even if, he feels more strongly about it and has looked into more deeply than any of his colleagues. (by the way I picked JW and have no idea about that particular one's rules, I just picked it for no reason whatsoever other than to have a name for the example)

Anyway it's all very strange and interesting and as I said goes way beyond the scope of sports. There was a debate on the radio today whether or not prisoners should get vax'd before the non-high-risk general population. There will be a lot of conversation about things like this. I just think that testing a consumer for vaccination in order to purchase an experience is a bridge too far. This out to be settled and out of 'pandemic' state before situations like that are even allowed to arise.

**areobee401** · 12-04-2020, 02:56 PM

Re: 2020 Offseason Thread

The Atlanta Hawks offered OKC’s 2022 1st round pick to the Sacramento Kings in a sign-and-trade for Bogdan Bogdanovic, per The Athletic.

Yikes, if true. lol

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

**georgiafan** · 12-04-2020, 03:04 PM

Re: 2020 Offseason Thread

Originally posted by areobee401

The Atlanta Hawks offered OKC’s 2022 1st round pick to the Sacramento Kings in a sign-and-trade for Bogdan Bogdanovic, per The Athletic.

Yikes, if true. lol

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That 1st is a fake first as its lottery protected for next year and then becomes two 2nd several years down the road. So if OKC lands in the lottery next year then the pick will not become a 1st. Still if your Sacramento its better to have that and then trade exception then nothing at all.

**illwill10** · 12-04-2020, 03:06 PM

Re: 2020 Offseason Thread

Originally posted by areobee401

The Atlanta Hawks offered OKC’s 2022 1st round pick to the Sacramento Kings in a sign-and-trade for Bogdan Bogdanovic, per The Athletic.

Yikes, if true. lol

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Which makes it worse lol. They could have at least gotten something back and instead of letting him walk

**georgiafan** · 12-04-2020, 03:28 PM

Re: 2020 Offseason Thread

Oh yea def you have to take it I'm just glad they didn't and we were able to hang on to the draft picks.

So is it time for the in season thread now that the schedule is out ?

2020 Offseason Thread

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