2021-22 NBA Trade Deadline

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: 2021-22 NBA Trade Deadline

With that team, at best Ben is a 14-8-8 guy. Statically the best I can see Ben averaging D Murray type stats at 18-8-8. But that's on a bad team where's he the #1. Points shouldn't shouldn't be the priority for fans. You just want him to be aggressive and get that FT % to above 70%. With us, there were always frustrating times where he had a clear Mismatch advantage and would still be too passive. I was never complaining about lack of jump shots, just that he would always defer

If he’s giving us those numbers while picking back up where he left off with his Defense, I’ll gladly take that.

He doesn’t need to be an elite shooter/floor spacer because we have plenty of guys that already do that.

He doesn’t need to be a beast in the post because we’ve already got guys that can take care of that.

If he can keep the ball moving, play elite Defense, get down hill and be aggressive like you mentioned, he’ll be alright. And if he’s doing that, then he’ll be making Patty, Seth, Cam and Joe’s jobs a lot easier.

[ggsimmonds]

Re: 2021-22 NBA Trade Deadline

With that team, at best Ben is a 14-8-8 guy. Statically the best I can see Ben averaging D Murray type stats at 18-8-8. But that's on a bad team where's he the #1. Points shouldn't shouldn't be the priority for fans. You just want him to be aggressive and get that FT % to above 70%. With us, there were always frustrating times where he had a clear Mismatch advantage and would still be too passive. I was never complaining about lack of jump shots, just that he would always defer

14-8-8 is fair. I see 16-8-8 as an optimistic outlook. That would be my reasonable max expectation.

Playoffs though we're probably looking at 12-8-8. Nets are going to have to be good with that.

[DieHardYankee26]

Re: 2021-22 NBA Trade Deadline

I think it should be a great fit, but it took every fiber in my being not to say anything to the idea that Harden wanted to be a 3rd option on a team that has Kyrie like he’s not regarded much higher. The implication that Ben could do what Harden can was just a step too far. The slander was getting out of hand [emoji23].

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: 2021-22 NBA Trade Deadline

I already said numerous times his role will be different.

But we can't sit here before he plays a game with the Nets and act like there is no risk. If Nets get in a tough playoff series, and KD/Kyrie starts talking about guys needing to step up (like what happens in every series every year) and Nash looks at his roster for someone to step up, you think Ben will be exempt?

I'm about 75% confident that this trade works out for the Nets and is a good fit. But there's still a 25% chance that it doesn't.

Nobody is doing that. It just not something that needs to be said because we’re all smart enough Basketball Fans(compared to other places)to know that it’s not a guarantee it’s going to work. We’re already aware of that, lol.

You made up a random stat line and said I would sign up for it, as if it’s supposed to be some sort of slight, lol which is why I responded.

So yeah, if he’s putting up 6/15/15(without including context/nuance behind these numbers BTW)and we’re getting wins, then I’ll take that. The great players always find a way to leave their impact on the game if they’re not scoring.

[ProfessaPackMan]

2021-22 NBA Trade Deadline

The implication that Ben could do what Harden can was just a step too far. The slander was getting out of hand [emoji23].

I mean y’all spent the last year talking about how he was out of shape, can’t get past any players, that he’s useless without those Referee Whistles, he can’t adjust to the new rules, his jump shot is gone, etc.

Or do we wanna act like none of these things were said and that y’all thought he played like an MVP candidate all year? [emoji848] The receipts are still here if you wanna claim otherwise lol

So again, if Ben were to do all of those things that y’all said about Harden but still play his elite defense…what did we really lose?

It wasn’t slander when he was a Net but the second he’s gone, all these things said about him is slander now. Boy y’all are something else, lol

[DieHardYankee26]

Re: 2021-22 NBA Trade Deadline

You mean THEY said those things, I have always had nothing but the utmost respect for James Naismith Harden. I’d love to see receipts on me slandering my guy, maybe I was high.

[ggsimmonds]

Re: 2021-22 NBA Trade Deadline

Nobody is doing that. It just not something that needs to be said because we’re all smart enough Basketball Fans(compared to other places)to know that it’s not a guarantee it’s going to work. We’re already aware of that, lol.

You made up a random stat line and said I would sign up for it, as if it’s supposed to be some sort of slight, lol which is why I responded.

So yeah, if he’s putting up 6/15/15(without including context/nuance behind these numbers BTW)and we’re getting wins, then I’ll take that. The great players always find a way to leave their impact on the game if they’re not scoring.

It wasn't random though. He put up line against the Wizards last year and was heavily criticized for it. For reasons we both have mentioned -- his role in Philly was different from what it would be in Brooklyn. Philly needed him to be a primary scorer, Brooklyn doesn't. When you specified that if KD and Kyrie were playing god mod basketball and yall were getting wins you'd be happy with that statline, no man, you're going to have to be happy with that stat line even when KD and Kyrie are playing like mortals and you don't win. You're going to get more single digit outings than 20+ nights from Ben in all likelihood.

But you threw me when you said plays like Harden did and asked what did yall really lose. Because make no mistake, yall lost a dynamic scorer. Ben is not that.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: 2021-22 NBA Trade Deadline

You mean THEY said those things, I have always had nothing but the utmost respect for James Naismith Harden. I’d love to see receipts on me slandering my guy, maybe I was high.

My man out here pleading the fif ain’t that some ****

[ProfessaPackMan]

2021-22 NBA Trade Deadline

It wasn't random though. He put up line against the Wizards last year and was heavily criticized for it. For reasons we both have mentioned -- his role in Philly was different from what it would be in Brooklyn. Philly needed him to be a primary scorer, Brooklyn doesn't. When you specified that if KD and Kyrie were playing god mod basketball and yall were getting wins you'd be happy with that statline, no man, you're going to have to be happy with that stat line even when KD and Kyrie are playing like mortals and you don't win. You're going to get more single digit outings than 20+ nights from Ben in all likelihood.

But you threw me when you said plays like Harden did and asked what did yall really lose. Because make no mistake, yall lost a dynamic scorer. Ben is not that.

I mean I’ve already stated what my expectations of him are. Trying to project what I’ll feel about him in a playoff game on this team is pointless since it disregards any type of context.

As for Harden being a dynamic scorer, I know he can be one at times but for most of his tenure here, those moments were far and few for whatever reason.

Luckily for him, he won’t need to be that in Philly just like he didn’t need to do it here.

[ggsimmonds]

Re: 2021-22 NBA Trade Deadline

Let me hit a restart because I feel like me and Pack are disagreeing about nothing.

I mentioned the 6/15/15 line because Ben did that in the Wizards series in a game the 76ers won (Ben played elite defense that game also). But fans and media correctly recognized that as that roster was constructed they couldn't win a championship with Ben scoring in single digits, so they criticized his need to do more.

Brooklyn's roster is set up where they can win a championship even if Ben scores in the single digits. Thats why I mentioned you by name (resident Nets fan). If Ben rebounds, facilitates, and plays great defense (Beal was 1 for 6 with either 3 or 5 TOs when Ben was guarding him) Nets would be happy because thats exactly the kind of stuff he was brought in for.

My edit to that post is what you took issue with but the edit was in response to BigBob's comments about work environment. He implied that maybe Ben left Philly so all is well because that was the cause of his problems. Thats not true though. The problems come from within Ben and if he finds himself in a similar situation those problems will come back to the surface.

I should've quoted BigBob to make it clear that I was addressing his comments about negative work environments causing mental health issues.

[ggsimmonds]

Re: 2021-22 NBA Trade Deadline

I mean I’ve already stated what my expectations of him are. Trying to project what I’ll feel about him in a playoff game on this team is pointless since it disregards any type of context.

As for Harden being a dynamic scorer, I know he can be one at times but for most of his tenure here, those moments were far and few for whatever reason.

Luckily for him, he won’t need to be that in Philly just like he didn’t need to do it here.

I'll defer to illWill but I think he does. Thats the main reason they wanted him and had the demands they had when it came to any Simmons trade. They want a second star to lighten the load on Embid. They hoped Harris was that guy but he's not.

FWIW my speculation is that this is year 1 in the decline of Harden due to age. Stylistically I don't see much of a difference between now and his Rockets prime. He's just not as good anymore.

[illwill10]

Re: 2021-22 NBA Trade Deadline

I'll defer to illWill but I think he does. Thats the main reason they wanted him and had the demands they had when it came to any Simmons trade. They want a second star to lighten the load on Embid. They hoped Harris was that guy but he's not.

FWIW my speculation is that this is year 1 in the decline of Harden due to age. Stylistically I don't see much of a difference between now and his Rockets prime. He's just not as good anymore.

Yeah, we need that second guy because Tobias definitely isn't that and not to feel Joel has to go for 30+ just to beat bad teams.

But are this point, we need PG Harden. Maxey still has a long way to learning the position. This would allow Maxey to focus on being aggressive. Guys like Harris, Green, clearly miss having a facilitator. The ultimate goal is to stagger minutes to where you have either Harden or Maxey on the court at most times. Yes, it would be nice having a 2nd guy who can consistently give us 25-30 a night. But, I would gladly take what he was averaging in Brooklyn last year. That 24-10-8 would be a great addition. But, we need the others to be more willing to be spot up shooters. The only quick triggers we have is Green and Niang. Sixers fan actually like when Tobias takes open spot up shots, he just isn't as willing too. Maxey has significantly improved his 3pt%, but it is off dribble or pull ups. There will be a lot of open looks when Joel and Harden are on the court. We'll just need those guys to take them. We take the 2nd fewest 3PA as a team, that has to drastically improve for this pairing to work.

Morey said recently on a podcast that the team is close on a buyout acquisition, they just can't announce anything until it is official. The common theme is that we sign a backup 5 with the loss of Drummond. But, i don't know how useful a "traditional backup" center would be in the playoffs. Yeah, don't know if I trust Millsap, BBall Paul, and Bassey either. But, I would give Millsap up to the buyout deadline to prove himself. If he doesn't, then waive him and replace him. But, I rather go after a 3& D wing if someone like Gary Harris becomes available. All our shooters are streaky at best on spot ups. Danny is streaky as a shooter and has fell off defensively. Matisse still isn't giving you much as a shooter. Furkan is streaky on both ends. So, I think a 3 & D wing is more valuable

[ggsimmonds]

Re: 2021-22 NBA Trade Deadline

Yeah I was thinking 20+ is the need, anything above 24 is bonus money.

Dynamic scorer isn't necessarily a volume scorer. When I hear dynamic scorer I think 3 level scorer who can create their own offense.

Every team would love to have multiple guys giving 25-30 a night, but what the 76ers need is a reliable 20+ a night guy.

BUT, I don't think you want those 10 assists per night from Harden. The way he gets that number is by -dominating the ball and you don't want that. 7-8 would be the sweet spot. Continue playing inside-out with Embid as first option.

[bigbob]

Re: 2021-22 NBA Trade Deadline

Let me hit a restart because I feel like me and Pack are disagreeing about nothing.

I mentioned the 6/15/15 line because Ben did that in the Wizards series in a game the 76ers won (Ben played elite defense that game also). But fans and media correctly recognized that as that roster was constructed they couldn't win a championship with Ben scoring in single digits, so they criticized his need to do more.

Brooklyn's roster is set up where they can win a championship even if Ben scores in the single digits. Thats why I mentioned you by name (resident Nets fan). If Ben rebounds, facilitates, and plays great defense (Beal was 1 for 6 with either 3 or 5 TOs when Ben was guarding him) Nets would be happy because thats exactly the kind of stuff he was brought in for.

My edit to that post is what you took issue with but the edit was in response to BigBob's comments about work environment. He implied that maybe Ben left Philly so all is well because that was the cause of his problems. Thats not true though. The problems come from within Ben and if he finds himself in a similar situation those problems will come back to the surface.

I should've quoted BigBob to make it clear that I was addressing his comments about negative work environments causing mental health issues.

I never said Philly was the cause of his problems. I said a negative work environment can exasperate mental health problems, which is true.

Ben helped create that negative work environment by his actions after Doc and Embiid's comments. Rather than take criticism and grow, he took his ball and went home and made everything worse.

And if you are saying with your last sentence that a negative work environment can not create mental health problems, you are very far off base.

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[ggsimmonds]

Re: 2021-22 NBA Trade Deadline

I never said Philly was the cause of his problems. I said a negative work environment can exasperate mental health problems, which is true.

Ben helped create that negative work environment by his actions after Doc and Embiid's comments. Rather than take criticism and grow, he took his ball and went home and made everything worse.

And if you are saying with your last sentence that a negative work environment can not create mental health problems, you are very far off base.

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Obviously a negative work environment can create mental health problems.
Thats not what happened here. If anything it was the other way around -- his mental health issues created the negative work environment. Not just for him, but for others as well.

There's a bit of a difference between getting out of a negative situation to improve your mental health versus practicing avoidance which long term hurts your mental health. I think Ben did the latter.