Jones Tarver 3

[JohnJohnson]

Re: Jones Tarver 3

Aside from the fact that Vitali would dwarf those fighters, Vitali has the necessary complete package to compete or beat any all-time fighter (especially Frazier, with the Foreman blueprint being used in full effect). Great ones all have a complete package, and certain attributes inside them would always give them an opportunity to win or compete on any given night against any great one (Evander-Heart, Ali-Speed, Holmes-Jab, Foreman-Power, Lennox-Jab, etc......).

I agree with you. I don't think he's as good as Lennox but he's that same type of fighter. He'd be the favorite to win against anyone in the division. He's the true heavyweight champion in my opinion.

He hasn't done much since losing to Lewis though. Johnson, Sanders, and Williams. That's really not that impressive a resume. There's still the possibility that he could be exposed, though I doubt it.

I think that while he's nowhere near as skilled as former top heavyweights, including Lewis, that he could (not would necessarily) beat anyone. And I think the fact that you can say that about him, as you said above, makes him a great heavyweight. Not a great boxer, but a great heavyweight. There is a distinction. James Toney is a great boxer.

[edaddy]

Re: Jones Tarver 3

When has Glen Johnson ever been outclassed? He's lost of lot of close decisions. But he was DOMINATED and then stopped by Bernard. There's a big difference. There's a difference between losing bull**** decisions in another fighter's backyard and getting dominated from start to finish. Hopkins has been the only fighter ever to outclass Glen.

I'm picking the 40 year old to win the rematch, just as I felt he won the first fight. Hopkins got into a habit of doing JUST enough to win the rounds, but the judges were looking to give the fight to the young guy and he lost. I'll definitely be back here for the fight though, don't worry about that. I'll be here for Castillo-Corrales and Rahman-Vitali as well.

And again about the Tarver punch, it was perfectly timed, perfectly executed. Everything about it was perfect. It was thrown with conviction. Whether Tarver expected to land it or not is not the point. He threw it, he threw it perfectly, he threw it at the perfect time, and it landed perfectly. Not a thing about it wasn't perfect. That punch hits Roy Jones at any point during Jones' career.

Man you need to check your facts about Johnson lets see..He lost to Derrick Harmon (outclasses).. Daniel Judah, Silva Branco ,oh and Syd Vanderpool thes e are just the fighters he lost too without a contoversial decision..granted he has lost close decisions in boxers backyars but these are just a few he was simply outclassed,outboxed, and out hustled...The Tarver punch was thrown with conviction? don't get that one of course it was he is a boxer trying to knock Roys head offf...all i will give you is that it landed perfectly..but only because of Roys diminishing skills and reflexes..

[JohnJohnson]

Re: Jones Tarver 3

F

Man you need to check your facts about Johnson lets see..He lost to Derrick Harmon (outclasses).. Daniel Judah, Silva Branco ,oh and Syd Vanderpool thes e are just the fighters he lost too without a contoversial decision..granted he has lost close decisions in boxers backyars but these are just a few he was simply outclassed,outboxed, and out hustled...The Tarver punch was thrown with conviction? don't get that one of course it was he is a boxer trying to knock Roys head offf...all i will give you is that it landed perfectly..but only because of Roys diminishing skills and reflexes..

The Judah fight was scored a draw, and I thought Johnson won it decisively. Don't see how that constitutes him being outclassed.

I thought he beat Derrick Harmon, that was a close fight. No way that was him being outclassed.

I didn't see the Branco or Vanderpool fights. The Branco one was in Italy though, so who knows. Can't comment on it, I didn't see it. They used a 20 point scoring system. I didn't see the Vanderpool fight. However I see that one judge scored it 96-94. 6 rounds to 4, doesn't really sound too much like being outclassed. Sounds like he lost a close decision. And I didn't see these two fights so the judges could have been wrong, no way of knowing unless someone has them available for download.

[edaddy]

Re: Jones Tarver 3

F

The Judah fight was scored a draw, and I thought Johnson won it decisively. Don't see how that constitutes him being outclassed.

I thought he beat Derrick Harmon, that was a close fight. No way that was him being outclassed.

I didn't see the Branco or Vanderpool fights. The Branco one was in Italy though, so who knows. Can't comment on it, I didn't see it. They used a 20 point scoring system. I didn't see the Vanderpool fight. However I see that one judge scored it 96-94. 6 rounds to 4, doesn't really sound too much like being outclassed. Sounds like he lost a close decision. And I didn't see these two fights so the judges could have been wrong, no way of knowing unless someone has them available for download.

He lost to Judah and he was worked by Harmon go to boxingrec.com look up his name and you will see the scores...

[JohnJohnson]

Re: Jones Tarver 3

He lost to Judah and he was worked by Harmon go to boxingrec.com look up his name and you will see the scores...

Boxrec says that the Judah fight was a draw, just as I said.

They have the scoring for the Harmon fight as 98-92, 97-93, 97-93. All for Harmon.

[marq]

Re: Jones Tarver 3

sugar ray leonard came out of retirement,defeated hagler for the middleweight crown, then he went up to lightheavyweight and defeated donnie lalonde for the light heavyweight title, then he came back down and fought hearns to a draw, and then defeated duran for the supermiddleweight crown...he was later defeated by a younger,faster terry norris....roy was beaten by older,slower fighters,supposidly less calliber fighters. roy didn't have to duck and run to fight a fluff heavyweight in ruiz, he had tarver waiting and begging for a chance for years, he had hopkins calling him out, just screaming his name, and a few other fighters that he ran from.

First, Sugar Ray Leonard is one of the greatest ever, without a doubt and one of my all time favorites. BUT, even I, one of his biggest fans since childhood, know that a few of the fights you mention were questionable. First, I was elated that he beat Hagler, but he negotiated to have certain ring specifications (made it larger) and the number of rounds (reduced from 15 to 12) and people still consider that fight a toss up, including HAgler who was so angry that he never fought again. I still feel Leonard won, but there are many that will tell you otherwise. He fought Lalonde for the light heavy/super middleweight crown and won in a dazzling comeback, but Lalonde wasn't exactly who you would call a great fighter by any stretch of the imagination. Leonard would tell you himself that he lost the Hearns fight where he had been knocked down twice (said so on sports century) and the Duran fight...Uno Mas...should NEVER be brought up because it was trash and Duran was old. And as I stated, he had no business fighting Norris, as Norris went easy on him later in the fight as not to hurt one of his childhood heroes. It was one of the worst memories of my boxing youth watching that happen. THen there was the ill-fated Camacho fight...need I say more? All I'm saying is that even the great ones don't know when to stop, looking for that lightning in the bottle...that includes Jones. Say what you will, the man had a great and historic career and his accomplishments place him on a short list of boxers.

[mr_president]

Re: Jones Tarver 3

Lalonde wasn't exactly who you would call a great fighter by any stretch of the imagination.

.....but he was a champion....you can't really discredit leonard for beating lalonde, and give credit to roy for beating ruiz.

Leonard would tell you himself that he lost the Hearns fight where he had been knocked down twice (said so on sports century)

...he was given the decision, as was roy in tarver 1

and the Duran fight...Uno Mas...should NEVER be brought up because it was trash and Duran was old.

duran was only a few years older than leonard, roy lost to fighters that are the same age as him(GJ-1969,RJJ-1969, AT-1968),Jones was still faster than those fighters he lost to....if the claim is roy has gotten slower because of his age, then the same should be said of the other 2 fighters.

i never said that roy jones didn't accomplish anything, what i am saying is he was overated, i do not think he is one of the greatest fighters ever, and i base that off of his competition, and his unwillingness to fight the top fighters in or near his weight class...gr8 fighters,fight anyone anywhere,they get an opponent and not only out box him they out think him..this is what made ali, leonard, and even hopkins gr8 fighters(multi-dimensional), roy jones is/was a one dimensional fighter that ducked the real comp in order to fight mailmen, and part time store clerks... i'll say this for roy, he knew how to pick his opponents.

[marq]

Re: Jones Tarver 3

.....but he was a champion....you can't really discredit leonard for beating lalonde, and give credit to roy for beating ruiz.


...he was given the decision, as was roy in tarver 1



duran was only a few years older than leonard, roy lost to fighters that are the same age as him(GJ-1969,RJJ-1969, AT-1968),Jones was still faster than those fighters he lost to....if the claim is roy has gotten slower because of his age, then the same should be said of the other 2 fighters.

i never said that roy jones didn't accomplish anything, what i am saying is he was overated, i do not think he is one of the greatest fighters ever, and i base that off of his competition, and his unwillingness to fight the top fighters in or near his weight class...gr8 fighters,fight anyone anywhere,they get an opponent and not only out box him they out think him..this is what made ali, leonard, and even hopkins gr8 fighters(multi-dimensional), roy jones is/was a one dimensional fighter that ducked the real comp in order to fight mailmen, and part time store clerks... i'll say this for roy, he knew how to pick his opponents.

I didn't discredit Leonard for beating Lalonde, i never discredited LEonard for beating anybody so you can save that argument. Also, i think that you may be confusing Age with Number of Fights. By the time Uno Mas came around, Duran had fought about 100 fights to Leonards 38 at the time I believe. Duran was no where near the fighter of the first two Leonard fights. And after watching the fight Last weekend, i did see that Roy was faster than TArver and Johnson before him, just didn't/wouldn't pull the trigger. He has fought double the fights that Tarver fought, but not many more than Johnson. Still, not hard to see the difference in him since dropping weight to fight Tarver the first time. still haven't seen anyone pull that statistic out of dropping that far in weight class as Leonard fought Lalonde at 167. Not much of an increase from 163 (Super Middleweight). Going to boxrec Jones did fight his number 1 contenders and a lot of 0 to 1 loss opponents. They were far from great, but many haven't lost since. If you were Roy (who suffered one of the great robberies ever in the Olympics), would you have fought Michelchevski(?) in Germany when YOU were the champion?

[mr_president]

Re: Jones Tarver 3

I didn't discredit Leonard for beating Lalonde, i never discredited LEonard for beating anybody so you can save that argument.

marq:
but Lalonde wasn't exactly who you would call a great fighter by any stretch of the imagination.

you keep mentioning what jones accomplished by winning the heavyweight belt, but ruiz is a bum, not that gr8 of a fighter, as lalonde wasn't...by stating lalonde wasn't a gr8 fighter, you are taking away leonards credit, but in the same breath you give credit to roy for beating ruiz who also is not a gr8 fighter.

marq:
Also, i think that you may be confusing Age with Number of Fights.

marq:
the Duran fight...Uno Mas...should NEVER be brought up because it was trash and Duran was old.

age was never my argument it was yours

marq:
i did see that Roy was faster than TArver and Johnson before him, just didn't/wouldn't pull the trigger.

why do you suppose that was?? it couldn't be because his skills had erroded, because he was faster than tarver. fear and being a one dimensional fighter played a big part and that's why he is not one of the greatest fighters ever, he accomplished many things, but being gr8 is not one of them. a gr8 fighter in his situation would have found a way, would have had another plan other than dancing.

marq:
Still, not hard to see the difference in him since dropping weight to fight Tarver the first time. still haven't seen anyone pull that statistic out of dropping that far in weight class as Leonard fought Lalonde at 167.

fighters have dieticians,nutritionalist, and doctors to help them eat properly, an d manage their weight, roy jones jr. said that the weight wouldn't be a problem for him because he walks around at that weight....and why go and fight john ruiz, when tarver is there, hopkins was there, tito(at that time he was formidable) was there all willing to meet in the middle and all big money fights, but no, jones goes up to fight a man who is nothing but a complete bum, he then wanted to fight an aged holyfield ???why because he could win.....it's funny how he turned into a shell of his former self when he stepped into the ring with someone that could hit him.

marq:
If you were Roy (who suffered one of the great robberies ever in the Olympics), would you have fought Michelchevski(?) in Germany when YOU were the champion?

a gr8 fighter fights anyone anywhere, besides, tarver wasn't in germany, hopkins wasn't in germany, tito wasn't in germany??

if you were jones would you go up in weight 20lbs. to fight another bonafide bum(??) or fight tarver at your weight(??), drop 5-7 lbs and fight hopkins or tito at super middleweight(??)

jones has already answered all of these questions for us....you must have forgot.

[marq]

Re: Jones Tarver 3

you keep mentioning what jones accomplished by winning the heavyweight belt, but ruiz is a bum, not that gr8 of a fighter, as lalonde wasn't...by stating lalonde wasn't a gr8 fighter, you are taking away leonards credit, but in the same breath you give credit to roy for beating ruiz who also is not a gr8 fighter.






age was never my argument it was yours



why do you suppose that was?? it couldn't be because his skills had erroded, because he was faster than tarver. fear and being a one dimensional fighter played a big part and that's why he is not one of the greatest fighters ever, he accomplished many things, but being gr8 is not one of them. a gr8 fighter in his situation would have found a way, would have had another plan other than dancing.



fighters have dieticians,nutritionalist, and doctors to help them eat properly, an d manage their weight, roy jones jr. said that the weight wouldn't be a problem for him because he walks around at that weight....and why go and fight john ruiz, when tarver is there, hopkins was there, tito(at that time he was formidable) was there all willing to meet in the middle and all big money fights, but no, jones goes up to fight a man who is nothing but a complete bum, he then wanted to fight an aged holyfield ???why because he could win.....it's funny how he turned into a shell of his former self when he stepped into the ring with someone that could hit him.



a gr8 fighter fights anyone anywhere, besides, tarver wasn't in germany, hopkins wasn't in germany, tito wasn't in germany??

if you were jones would you go up in weight 20lbs. to fight another bonafide bum(??) or fight tarver at your weight(??), drop 5-7 lbs and fight hopkins or tito at super middleweight(??)

jones has already answered all of these questions for us....you must have forgot.

Revisionist history, becuase he wasn't scared to fight any of the three fighters you mention. First, when Tito mentioned Roy, i remember Emanuel Steward saying at ringside that he needed to calm down, Roy would've crushed Tito at that time. Tarver messed up his shot by losing a No. 1 contender's match to Eric Harding, who Roy ALREADY handled. And the only reason the Hopkins fight didn't go down was because Hopkins wanted half the purse. That fight is a toss up because in 2000-2002 Roy was still at his peak and had two good hands instead of the broken one he used when easily beating Hopkins the first time. Doesn't really matter. you're going to think whatever as will I, debate is at the heart of Sports. but peep this anyway:

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/box...ory?id=2181793

[mr_president]

Re: Jones Tarver 3

Revisionist history, becuase he wasn't scared to fight any of the three fighters you mention. First, when Tito mentioned Roy, i remember Emanuel Steward saying at ringside that he needed to calm down, Roy would've crushed Tito at that time. Tarver messed up his shot by losing a No. 1 contender's match to Eric Harding, who Roy ALREADY handled. And the only reason the Hopkins fight didn't go down was because Hopkins wanted half the purse. That fight is a toss up because in 2000-2002 Roy was still at his peak and had two good hands instead of the broken one he used when easily beating Hopkins the first time. Doesn't really matter. you're going to think whatever as will I, debate is at the heart of Sports. but peep this anyway:

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/box...ory?id=2181793

i read that days ago, he has an opinion as do you and i, the only difference is he gets paid for it...none-the-less you and i could go on for days, let's agree to disagree, but i must admit the debate has been mature and enjoyable...see you on the boards or perhaps online.

good talking to you bro

[sirjam]

Re: Jones Tarver 3

I realize I am late but I just got a chance to watch Jones Tarver 3 on my tivo. Anyway I have never been so disappointed by a fighter in my life. What the hell was that. Jones showed flashes of him being able to beat Tarver( who I like as well). However everytime he would pull back and stop punching. It seemed like all he cared about was surviving and not being knocked out. Which he almost was in one of those rounds. Also what was that crap he was doing through out the match. I mean he always show boated a little but never like that. He was doing some little things after every punch of Tarvers. It was actually to the point of almost classless. Roy was clearly the better fighter as far as talent goes but he had no heart to back it up. I mean the 12th round was going on and he still wasn't punching. Then in the post fight interview he acted like he didn't even care that he just lost and made himself look foolish in the process. Now it should be said that I have always been a big fan of his. However after that fight I lost a little bit for him.