Jones Tarver 3

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  • JohnJohnson
    Banned
    • Jul 2005
    • 320

    #76
    Re: Jones Tarver 3

    About Vitali, he was knocked down in the amatuers by Oleg Maskaev. He lost the fight and may have been stopped, but he was definitely knocked down.


    edit: I found this from an interview with Maskaev. Basically says that Vitali wasn't technically knocked down but the fight was stopped.

    Boxinginsider.com: When you fought Vitali, when was that?

    Oleg Maskaev: "I believe it was in 1991, it was an army tournament in Tashkent, that was part of Russia."

    Boxinginsider.com: What happened in that fight?

    Oleg Maskaev:"I hurt him three times. And his trainer throw in the towel in the middle of the ring."

    Boxinginsider.com: What round?

    Oleg Maskaev:"First round."

    Boxinginsider.com: What punch did you hurt him with?

    Oleg Maskaev:"Left hook. Three times, same left hook."

    Boxinginsider.com: Did he go down?

    Oleg Maskaev: "He was on the canvas. But the referee, he didn't count it. He say I didn't turn it (the punch) over (properly technique-wise), that's why."

    Boxinginsider.com: Sounds like the referee was on his side.

    Oleg Maskaev: "I believe so [smiles]."
    Last edited by JohnJohnson; 10-04-2005, 09:59 PM.

    Comment

    • JohnJohnson
      Banned
      • Jul 2005
      • 320

      #77
      Re: Jones Tarver 3

      Vitali is an "A" list heavyweight, I agree. But it's only because of the current state of the heavyweight division.

      James Toney has never been hurt in the boxing ring. He's the most naturally gifted fighter in the sport. He slips jabs better than anyone. I don't think Vitali's jab would be any different. It'd be a tough fight for the 5'9 Toney to win, but it's not impossible. If he were to fight Vitali and win, you'd have to regard him as *gasp* possibly the best ever.

      Comment

      • ObiWanJenkins

        #78
        Re: Jones Tarver 3

        Originally posted by JohnJohnson
        Vitali is an "A" list heavyweight, I agree. But it's only because of the current state of the heavyweight division.

        James Toney has never been hurt in the boxing ring. He's the most naturally gifted fighter in the sport. He slips jabs better than anyone. I don't think Vitali's jab would be any different. It'd be a tough fight for the 5'9 Toney to win, but it's not impossible. If he were to fight Vitali and win, you'd have to regard him as *gasp* possibly the best ever.
        Best ever substance enhanced ever.

        Comment

        • edaddy
          MVP
          • Jun 2004
          • 2848

          #79
          Re: Jones Tarver 3

          Originally posted by ObiWanJenkins
          1. Hopkins is a defensive fighter, and always has been. He couldn't sustain the pace? What fight were you watching? Hopkins turned in on in the later rounds while Taylor ran out of gas.

          2. Hopkins was still being defensive when he had Taylor hurt. It has nothing to do with his body not allowing him to finish him off. Funny. There was only one time that Hopkins looked like Taylor's punches phased him, and that was in the third round. At no other time in the fight did Hopkins ever look like he was affected by Taylor's punches. Yet in the 8th, the 11th, and the 12th Hopkins had Taylor hurt. If Hopkins has been given the last round like he deserved, Taylor is just another fighter who couldn't solve Hopkins' defense. de la Hoya? LMAO. Hopkins controlled the whole fight.

          Did you forget that Tarver completely destroyed Johnson in the rematch. It wasn't even close. So much for the pressure fighter dominating the counterpuncher. Johnson knocked Roy out because Roy wasn't interested in the fight, not because he pressured Roy throughout the fight. Johnson took alot of punishment in the Roy fight and both Tarver fights.

          If you really want to get into it, Tarver knocked Jones out with one punch, Johnson needed a combination.

          You're ridiculous. Boxing isn't about running straight at your opponent and throwing punches. The best boxers in history have been counterpunchers. The number of knockouts mean nothing in showing who the best fighters are.

          Hopkins has been on the decline since before he fought Trinidad. He's still the best boxer in the middleweight division. Just as Tarver is the best light heavyweight in the division.
          1.I was watching the same fight as you and I saw a 40 yr old man who gave away 7-8 rounds to a man who pressed the action...I explained to you that Taylor is not technically sound which is why when he got winded he got hit
          tell me how you can give away rounds and expect to win.True he had Taylor hurt but it was to little too late..come see me Dec 4th you will see what I mean....And he has become a defensive fighter in his later stages of his career....he once once a pressure fighter who carried the fights....

          2. Tarver destroyed Johnson in the second fight? What were you looking at? I saw a close competitive fight much like the first fight..Tarver had enough in his gas tank to pull the victory out..but it as a close competitive fight..Johnson got destroyed?

          3. Johnson knocked Roy out because Roy wasn't interested? What the f**k are you talking about? so I suppose Roy just let Johnson beat him up for 9 rounds because he wasn't interested..I was at that fight and what I saw was a man whose legs couldn't get away from a pressure fighter...and whose reflexes weren,t quik enough to escape Johnsons infighting punches..Do you know what Roy would have done to Johnson 5-10 yrs ago...His legs would have gotten him off the ropes and he would have gotten a decision..Johnson was not punished at all during the Roy fight Roy was and once again was hurt twice and knocked out by a fighter who isn't known for his knockout power

          4.Johnson knocked Roy out with an overhand right...one punch..and Tarver also knocked him out with one punch..look at the film.....Johnson pressured him throughout the fight and set him up for the right....Both knockout punches would have easliy been avoide by Jones in his prime..because of his reflexes..And beleive me Roy's rope a dope style against Johnson and Tarver is not because he wants too..because he gets punished against the ropes..it's because he has too..his legs won't let him escape...
          THANKS FOR THE TRADE SANDIEGO KEEP RIVERS WE'LL TAKE ELI

          Comment

          • JohnJohnson
            Banned
            • Jul 2005
            • 320

            #80
            Re: Jones Tarver 3

            Originally posted by ObiWanJenkins
            Best ever substance enhanced ever.
            Toney took steroid to recover quicker from injury. That's different than being substance enhanced. It was the different between Toney beating Ruiz's *** in May instead of beating it in June.

            How come no one talks about Vitali or Roid taking steroids?

            Comment

            • JohnJohnson
              Banned
              • Jul 2005
              • 320

              #81
              Re: Jones Tarver 3

              Originally posted by edaddy
              1.I was watching the same fight as you and I saw a 40 yr old man who gave away 7-8 rounds to a man who pressed the action...I explained to you that Taylor is not technically sound which is why when he got winded he got hit
              tell me how you can give away rounds and expect to win.True he had Taylor hurt but it was to little too late..come see me Dec 4th you will see what I mean....And he has become a defensive fighter in his later stages of his career....he once once a pressure fighter who carried the fights....

              2. Tarver destroyed Johnson in the second fight? What were you looking at? I saw a close competitive fight much like the first fight..Tarver had enough in his gas tank to pull the victory out..but it as a close competitive fight..Johnson got destroyed?

              3. Johnson knocked Roy out because Roy wasn't interested? What the f**k are you talking about? so I suppose Roy just let Johnson beat him up for 9 rounds because he wasn't interested..I was at that fight and what I saw was a man whose legs couldn't get away from a pressure fighter...and whose reflexes weren,t quik enough to escape Johnsons infighting punches..Do you know what Roy would have done to Johnson 5-10 yrs ago...His legs would have gotten him off the ropes and he would have gotten a decision..Johnson was not punished at all during the Roy fight Roy was and once again was hurt twice and knocked out by a fighter who isn't known for his knockout power

              4.Johnson knocked Roy out with an overhand right...one punch..and Tarver also knocked him out with one punch..look at the film.....Johnson pressured him throughout the fight and set him up for the right....Both knockout punches would have easliy been avoide by Jones in his prime..because of his reflexes..And beleive me Roy's rope a dope style against Johnson and Tarver is not because he wants too..because he gets punished against the ropes..it's because he has too..his legs won't let him escape...
              I scored Taylor-Hopkins for Hopkins. Taylor just didn't do enough to take the man's belts. And if the 12th had been scored correctly, Hopkins would have retained the belts. It wasn't a bad decision though, it could have went either way. A lot of people thought Hopkins fought at two speeds. One speed for rounds 1-8, and a second one for rounds 9-12. I didn't see it that way. He clearly picked up the pace starting in the 5th round and then picked it up again in the 9th. The fight was really broken up into 3rds. I had it 115-113 for Hopkins. It really just comes down to what you like more, good defense or bad offense? Taylor had bad offense, but lots of it. Hopkins had good defense, and lots of it. Hopkins stepped up in the championship rounds, because he's the champion.

              That punch that Tarver KO'd Roy with would have gotten Roy at any point in his career. It was just the perfect punch at the perfect time.

              Glen Johnson would have beaten ANYONE that night. No one wants to give him credit.

              About Tarver-Johnson II, I agree. It was far from a one-sided beating. Johnson didn't fight a very good fight but he really picked it up in the later rounds and almost did enough to steal the decision. He wasn't on his game that night though, he let a lot of punches go between his guard. That's unlike him. However, he ROCKED Tarver in the 11th and 12th. Tarver was hanging on for dear life. In that 12th round, Tarver clinched more times did than most fighters do over the course of 12 rounds.

              Comment

              • edaddy
                MVP
                • Jun 2004
                • 2848

                #82
                Re: Jones Tarver 3

                Originally posted by JohnJohnson
                I scored Taylor-Hopkins for Hopkins. Taylor just didn't do enough to take the man's belts. And if the 12th had been scored correctly, Hopkins would have retained the belts. It wasn't a bad decision though, it could have went either way. A lot of people thought Hopkins fought at two speeds. One speed for rounds 1-8, and a second one for rounds 9-12. I didn't see it that way. He clearly picked up the pace starting in the 5th round and then picked it up again in the 9th. The fight was really broken up into 3rds. I had it 115-113 for Hopkins. It really just comes down to what you like more, good defense or bad offense? Taylor had bad offense, but lots of it. Hopkins had good defense, and lots of it. Hopkins stepped up in the championship rounds, because he's the champion.

                That punch that Tarver KO'd Roy with would have gotten Roy at any point in his career. It was just the perfect punch at the perfect time.

                Glen Johnson would have beaten ANYONE that night. No one wants to give him credit.

                About Tarver-Johnson II, I agree. It was far from a one-sided beating. Johnson didn't fight a very good fight but he really picked it up in the later rounds and almost did enough to steal the decision. He wasn't on his game that night though, he let a lot of punches go between his guard. That's unlike him. However, he ROCKED Tarver in the 11th and 12th. Tarver was hanging on for dear life. In that 12th round, Tarver clinched more times did than most fighters do over the course of 12 rounds.
                Good points but I disagree with yyou on two things. First which knockout punch are you talking about because Roy was knocked out twice..The Tarver punch was perfect because it landed ..Roy has been in plenty of fights where the perfect punch was thrown but it wasn't landed..mainly because Roy was toooooo.. quick..but as he slowed he was succeptible to the perfect punch which he finally got hit with...Tarver never landed that perfect punch but seems to have landed it the next 2 fights ..No doubt Roy was out on his feet the 11th round lucky thing for loose ropes and Tarver running out of gas..Also in reference to Johnson Johnson was not that spectacular the night he fought Roy in fact he was the same ol Johnson it''s that his style (pressure) and his stamina kept him in the fight on top of that Roy's legs and reflexes allowed him to get pressured and take shots the whole night!!Again this is the same Johnson who was tko'd by Hopkins
                THANKS FOR THE TRADE SANDIEGO KEEP RIVERS WE'LL TAKE ELI

                Comment

                • Nivek
                  H*ll *f F*m*
                  • Jul 2002
                  • 7999

                  #83
                  Re: Jones Tarver 3

                  Originally posted by ObiWanJenkins
                  I don't think he was ducking, but rather refusing to fight guys that he would have to brawl with. Good strategy if you want to keep your health.
                  That's the definition of ducking also knows as....a BITCH!
                  Cameras or guns, one of them is gonna shoot me to death.

                  Comment

                  • sirjam
                    MVP
                    • Oct 2002
                    • 3535

                    #84
                    Re: Jones Tarver 3

                    Originally posted by JohnJohnson
                    I scored Taylor-Hopkins for Hopkins. Taylor just didn't do enough to take the man's belts. And if the 12th had been scored correctly, Hopkins would have retained the belts. It wasn't a bad decision though, it could have went either way. A lot of people thought Hopkins fought at two speeds. One speed for rounds 1-8, and a second one for rounds 9-12. I didn't see it that way. He clearly picked up the pace starting in the 5th round and then picked it up again in the 9th. The fight was really broken up into 3rds. I had it 115-113 for Hopkins. It really just comes down to what you like more, good defense or bad offense? Taylor had bad offense, but lots of it. Hopkins had good defense, and lots of it. Hopkins stepped up in the championship rounds, because he's the champion.

                    That punch that Tarver KO'd Roy with would have gotten Roy at any point in his career. It was just the perfect punch at the perfect time.

                    Glen Johnson would have beaten ANYONE that night. No one wants to give him credit.

                    About Tarver-Johnson II, I agree. It was far from a one-sided beating. Johnson didn't fight a very good fight but he really picked it up in the later rounds and almost did enough to steal the decision. He wasn't on his game that night though, he let a lot of punches go between his guard. That's unlike him. However, he ROCKED Tarver in the 11th and 12th. Tarver was hanging on for dear life. In that 12th round, Tarver clinched more times did than most fighters do over the course of 12 rounds.
                    I am glad I am not alone with the B-Hop vs Taylor fight. B-Hop won all of the late rounds, because Taylor was clearly out of gas. The champion usually gets the close decision so I don't what happened with that one.

                    Comment

                    • mr_president
                      MVP
                      • Oct 2002
                      • 1167

                      #85
                      Re: Jones Tarver 3

                      but as he slowed he was succeptible to the perfect punch which he finally got hit with.
                      saying roy jones has slowed down is making more excuses for him...he was fighting guys that are the same age as him,glenn johnson is 36 as is tarver, he is still much faster than both of these guys, it's not like he was fighting some up and coming lightning quick kid.

                      Comment

                      • mr_president
                        MVP
                        • Oct 2002
                        • 1167

                        #86
                        Re: Jones Tarver 3

                        sirjam:
                        I am glad I am not alone with the B-Hop vs Taylor fight. B-Hop won all of the late rounds, because Taylor was clearly out of gas. The champion usually gets the close decision so I don't what happened with that one.
                        if they would have given hopkins the decision he deserved the rematch, if there would have been one would be completely pointless, what you have now is a money maker, and probably 2 more fights.

                        Comment

                        • edaddy
                          MVP
                          • Jun 2004
                          • 2848

                          #87
                          Re: Jones Tarver 3

                          Originally posted by mr_president
                          saying roy jones has slowed down is making more excuses for him...he was fighting guys that are the same age as him,glenn johnson is 36 as is tarver, he is still much faster than both of these guys, it's not like he was fighting some up and coming lightning quick kid.
                          No no excuses Roy isn't as technically sound as Tarver or Johnson and relied on his speed and reflexes to elude the big punch ..when his reflexes started to fade he was succeptible to being hit..Even going back to the Ruiz fight he was hit and wobbled in the first round but Ruiz was to much of a b***tch to capatilize on it...
                          THANKS FOR THE TRADE SANDIEGO KEEP RIVERS WE'LL TAKE ELI

                          Comment

                          • sirjam
                            MVP
                            • Oct 2002
                            • 3535

                            #88
                            Re: Jones Tarver 3

                            Originally posted by mr_president
                            if they would have given hopkins the decision he deserved the rematch, if there would have been one would be completely pointless, what you have now is a money maker, and probably 2 more fights.
                            That's what I hate about boxing now, its all a scam.

                            Comment

                            • mr_president
                              MVP
                              • Oct 2002
                              • 1167

                              #89
                              Re: Jones Tarver 3

                              edaddy:No no excuses Roy isn't as technically sound as Tarver or Johnson and relied on his speed and reflexes to elude the big punch ..when his reflexes started to fade he was succeptible to being hit..Even going back to the Ruiz fight he was hit and wobbled in the first round but Ruiz was to much of a b***tch to capatilize on it..
                              i can't say reflexes was roys undoing, i think it has to do with lack of respect and preparation.....while these guys trained, he played semi pro ball on the day of fights. no gameplan for roy is what got him knocked out.

                              Comment

                              • JohnJohnson
                                Banned
                                • Jul 2005
                                • 320

                                #90
                                Re: Jones Tarver 3

                                Originally posted by edaddy
                                Good points but I disagree with yyou on two things. First which knockout punch are you talking about because Roy was knocked out twice..The Tarver punch was perfect because it landed ..Roy has been in plenty of fights where the perfect punch was thrown but it wasn't landed..mainly because Roy was toooooo.. quick..but as he slowed he was succeptible to the perfect punch which he finally got hit with...Tarver never landed that perfect punch but seems to have landed it the next 2 fights ..No doubt Roy was out on his feet the 11th round lucky thing for loose ropes and Tarver running out of gas..Also in reference to Johnson Johnson was not that spectacular the night he fought Roy in fact he was the same ol Johnson it''s that his style (pressure) and his stamina kept him in the fight on top of that Roy's legs and reflexes allowed him to get pressured and take shots the whole night!!Again this is the same Johnson who was tko'd by Hopkins
                                That punch wasn't only perfect and perfectly executed, it was perfectly timed. Jones commited to his punch and Tarver was able to eat it and land his own almost simultaneously. It was just the perfect punch and would have caught Roy at any time in his career.

                                Glen Johnson fought his usual style, that's not the point I was making. It was a determined man in the ring with Roy Jones that night. Glen Johnson wasn't going out of that ring the loser. He wasn't going to leave that one up to the judges. The pace that he was able to maintain and the level of boxing was a step up from any fight he's ever had. That was the best you will ever see Glen Johnson look and there's not a light heavy in the world that would have beat him that night.

                                Glen Johnson had no chance against Bernard Hopkins because Hopkins is an AMAZING boxer. He doesn't rely on reflexes or hand speed, he relies on his ability to box smartly. Do it from the inside and do it from the outside. Nothing a fighter can do is going to throw Hopkins off, he can adapt during the fight. Glen Johnson could fight Hopkins 100 times and lose every time. Hopkins just has his number. That fight could have been very discouraging for Glen Johnson, but rather than just give up. He remained determined to get a belt but decided to do it at a heavier weight class. And I think Glen Johnson, late in his career or not, has finally found the weight class that best suits him. 175 is perfect for Glen.

                                It was the same Johnson that was stopped by Hopkins. But that was the only time in his career that Johnson had been completely outclassed. Hopkins isn't a bad guy to get outclassed by. That's a hall of fame fighter.
                                Last edited by JohnJohnson; 10-05-2005, 06:19 PM.

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