Floyd Mayweather vs Robert Guerrero

[JayBee74]

Re: Floyd Mayweather vs Robert Guerrero

And I said nothing about dominating or clinic either. I take back the absurd remark. Maybe I should've googled it like you instead of going off of memory..

No need to check your PMs BTW.

If I went off of all memory I would be in trouble.

[JayBee74]

Re: Floyd Mayweather vs Robert Guerrero

If its "very disputable"...DISPUTE IT. How many PPV's has he headlined? How much money has he drawn? He drew a big number in Texas which was impressive but that doesnt mean that he's well known throughout the country and can sell a PPV.

Well, he is a popular Mexican fighter and you brought up the huge numbers at the Alamodome. So it's....... disputable. It's a moot point for either of us to bring up anyway. Alvarez's PPV potential would be dwarfed by Floyd's adding to Mayweather's greatest leverage-he doesn't need the fight.

So Floyd who is the primary draw, can generate a million ppv buys without Canelo and has other fight options should not use that leverage to negotiate the fight? What world do you live in? This is how the fight game works. This is how Oscar got Floyd to fight at 154. That is how Pac forced Cotto to fight at a catchweight. Thats how it works and Floyd isnt the first or last fighter to do that.

No, my main point was that Floyd may be trying to negotiate himself out of the fight.

What world do I live in? That's necessary?

What is the "weakened" stuff? No one has ever said the Canelo fight had to be at 147. It could be at 154. Floyd's team (rightfully so) is concerned about what Canelo rehydrates to. They want a limit on that so Floyd isnt fighting a light heavyweight at fight time (Canelo was rumored to weigh 175 when he fought Trout). Whats next? Are we going to expect Floyd to fight middleweights now?

Well the "weakened stuff" applies to the motivation of the Mayweather team. Whether they are going for a catch weight or a re-hydration limit on Canelo are they:

(A) Trying to strengthen Alvarez
(B) Trying to not affect Alvarez-keep him the same
(C) Trying to weaken Alvarez
(D) They really don't want to fight this kid

You tell me.

[sheredia]

Re: Floyd Mayweather vs Robert Guerrero

If its "very disputable"...DISPUTE IT. How many PPV's has he headlined? How much money has he drawn? He drew a big number in Texas which was impressive but that doesnt mean that he's well known throughout the country and can sell a PPV.

So Floyd who is the primary draw, can generate a million ppv buys without Canelo and has other fight options should not use that leverage to negotiate the fight? What world do you live in? This is how the fight game works. This is how Oscar got Floyd to fight at 154. That is how Pac forced Cotto to fight at a catchweight. Thats how it works and Floyd isnt the first or last fighter to do that.
What is the "weakened" stuff? No one has ever said the Canelo fight had to be at 147. It could be at 154. Floyd's team (rightfully so) is concerned about what Canelo rehydrates to. They want a limit on that so Floyd isnt fighting a light heavyweight at fight time (Canelo was rumored to weigh 175 when he fought Trout). Whats next? Are we going to expect Floyd to fight middleweights now?

Canelo would be a tough fight but because he is a naturally stronger and bigger fighter. Thats doesnt mean Floyd is scared or doesnt want the fight.

shouldn't matter.....floyd's speed will negate the weight factor. the only concern would be canelo's power but that's provided canelo even gets that many clean shots on floyd.

[aholbert32]

Re: Floyd Mayweather vs Robert Guerrero

Well, he is a popular Mexican fighter and you brought up the huge numbers at the Alamodome. So it's....... disputable. It's a moot point for either of us to bring up anyway. Alvarez's PPV potential would be dwarfed by Floyd's adding to Mayweather's greatest leverage-he doesn't need the fight.



No, my main point was that Floyd may be trying to negotiate himself out of the fight.

What world do I live in? That's necessary?



Well the "weakened stuff" applies to the motivation of the Mayweather team. Whether they are going for a catch weight or a re-hydration limit on Canelo are they:

(A) Trying to strengthen Alvarez
(B) Trying to not affect Alvarez-keep him the same
(C) Trying to weaken Alvarez
(D) They really don't want to fight this kid

You tell me.

First time you said "very disputable". Now its just "disputable." I guess thats progress. I still dont see how anyone can say Canelo is a PPV draw when he hasnt fought on PPV and has shown to be a on-site draw anywhere but Texas. The Lopez fight in Vegas was HEAVILY papered (a ton of free tickets given away) and still not an actual sellout.

Negotiating himself out of the fight would be Floyd saying Canelo had to come to 147 or 140. Asking for a rehydration limit is no different than negotiating the size of the gloves or the ring. These are all things that could "weaken" Canelo if Floyd wins the negotiation. And Floyd should win the negotiation because he doesnt need the fight and he is the ****ing draw.

[JayBee74]

Re: Floyd Mayweather vs Robert Guerrero

Negotiating himself out of the fight would be Floyd saying Canelo had to come to 147 or 140. Asking for a rehydration limit is no different than negotiating the size of the gloves or the ring. These are all things that could "weaken" Canelo if Floyd wins the negotiation. And Floyd should win the negotiation because he doesnt need the fight and he is the ****ing draw.

Well at least you've conceded the possibility of Canelo being "weakened". I guess that's progress.

[N51_rob]

Re: Floyd Mayweather vs Robert Guerrero

If Canelo is worried about being weakened by not being allowed to rehydrate to the light heavyweight limit why isn't he trying to fight Andre Ward at 168? Anyone who wants to see Floyd at 154 fight a guy a 175 you really just want to see him get hurt in the ring. And that fight will never happen. Let Canelo fight Berto at 154 and make $750,000 on showtime then.

[redsrule]

Re: Floyd Mayweather vs Robert Guerrero

If Canelo is worried about being weakened by not being allowed to rehydrate to the light heavyweight limit why isn't he trying to fight Andre Ward at 168? Anyone who wants to see Floyd at 154 fight a guy a 175 you really just want to see him get hurt in the ring. And that fight will never happen. Let Canelo fight Berto at 154 and make $750,000 on showtime then.

He would be stupid if tried to fight Ward. Ward would annihilate him.

[N51_rob]

Re: Floyd Mayweather vs Robert Guerrero

Yep, exactly.

[JayBee74]

Re: Floyd Mayweather vs Robert Guerrero

If Canelo is worried about being weakened by not being allowed to rehydrate to the light heavyweight limit why isn't he trying to fight Andre Ward at 168? Anyone who wants to see Floyd at 154 fight a guy a 175 you really just want to see him get hurt in the ring. And that fight will never happen. Let Canelo fight Berto at 154 and make $750,000 on showtime then.

My initial "weakened" response had to do with a catchweight of 151....my bad that I didn't actually "direct quote" it.

Obviously the problem with rehydration is the fact that fighters have time to xdehydratex (meant rehydrate) because they don't weigh in the day of the fight anymore. I can't remember when this process began but I haven't heard much about it until the last few years.

I have to slightly alter my stance on this. Floyd never was a big welterweight and after watching Sergio look like he was fighting giants the last two fights, I don't blame him at all if he holds out for weight/strength offsets even until the fight is no longer a fight.

That being said I don't blame Canelo for not agreeing to any of it. As unfortunate as it is that's boxing today. Boxers are sponges after they weigh in and the naturally bigger man is going to have the advantage, because he's the guy that dehydrated a lot to rehydrate a lot. Of course as Rob said he might have to settle for less cash and that might not be an option.

[Mo]

Re: Floyd Mayweather vs Robert Guerrero

http://mma-boxing.si.com/2013/05/10/mayweather-vs-guerrero-ppv-buys-showtime/

[pietasterp]

Re: Floyd Mayweather vs Robert Guerrero

He would be stupid if tried to fight Ward. Ward would annihilate him.

Yep, agree....I think that was the point rob was trying to make as well.

I have to agree with the folks who come down on the side of Floyd shouldn't have to fight a light heavyweight to get the Canelo fight. Of course, all of us posting in this thread think Canelo is a huge name and know he's one of the upcoming/present stars in the sport, but PPV's only get to be huge if casual fans are buying in. And your casual sports fan probably has no clue who Canelo Alvarez is, and wouldn't pay to see him unless he was fighting someone they do know, i.e. Mayweather. So if we agree on that (you might not, I totally understand), then Money has all the leverage in any negotiation and he wouldn't need or want to fight Alvarez in any situation in which the cards aren't all stacked as much as possible in his favor. I don't think it's fair to criticize Floyd for not wanting to fight a 170-lb+ Alvarez anymore than it would have been fair to criticize Julio Caesar Chavez for not wanting to fight Tyson. OK, extreme example, but the point is the same. In a lot of ways, I feel that Alvarez has won most/all of his fights by simply being the bigger man in the ring, and when he's in there with someone his size on fight night, it's a different ballgame.

I just watched this Guerrero fight last night, BTW. Kinda boring IMO, but then, I always find Floyd a bit on the boring side. I have full appreciation for his skillset, and he's a rare talent. He wins with defense, essentially, because even though he's only landing 5-6 good clean shots a round, if the other guy only lands 1-2, he wins. But it's a bit tiring because he basically never throws combinations or groups of punches, mostly just pot-shots and then covers, which is only so exciting. In fact, until I got used to watching him fight again, I have to say I had no idea who was winning the earlier rounds because you actually have to kind of attune yourself to watching a "Floyd Fight" as opposed to most other bouts. But I know I'm not saying anything everyone hasn't said a million times before me, so I'll just close by saying I thought I saw Neil Patrick Harris sitting in the 2nd row of the fight (my favorite meta-game in boxing - spot the front-row celebrity before they point it out!).

[Money99]

Re: Floyd Mayweather vs Robert Guerrero

JayBee, that's why I'd love for boxing to force the fighters to weigh in 2 hours before fight-time.
Some of these guys are 15 to 20lbs heavier 24-hours after they weigh in.

The other weekend, I watched two middleweights that looked like lt.heavyweights.
Sure enough, the announcers said they both unofficially weighed 174lbs at the time of the fight.

Boxing should get rid of half the weight classes. If they forced weigh-ins 2 hours prior to the fight, then you'd have guys really fighting in their weight classes and there'd be no need for these dumb catchweights.
Canelo would be a middleweight as would S-Mart, while guys like Ward, Murray, etc, would be light heavyweights where they belong.

[JODYE]

Re: Floyd Mayweather vs Robert Guerrero

Also need to eliminate the numerous divisions as well.

One of the reasons boxing has lost it's luster from a mainstream standpoint. So impossible to keep up with every good fighter in every division. There is no identifying with anyone because everyone is so spread out.

You've got WBA, WBC, IBF, WBO etc, and some with multiple holders. Pure nonsense. The WBA and WBC should be merged as one, and have just one champion in each weight class.

[LakerFan56]

Re: Floyd Mayweather vs Robert Guerrero

Also need to eliminate the numerous divisions as well.

One of the reasons boxing has lost it's luster from a mainstream standpoint. So impossible to keep up with every good fighter in every division. There is no identifying with anyone because everyone is so spread out.

You've got WBA, WBC, IBF, WBO etc, and some with multiple holders. Pure nonsense. The WBA and WBC should be merged as one, and have just one champion in each weight class.

No one can really get rid of the divisions. The only way that can happen is if one becomes the dominant division like the UFC is in MMA, but that will never happen. The closest we can get is a promoter controlling boxing which causes new problems though.

[Money99]

Re: Floyd Mayweather vs Robert Guerrero

Also need to eliminate the numerous divisions as well.

One of the reasons boxing has lost it's luster from a mainstream standpoint. So impossible to keep up with every good fighter in every division. There is no identifying with anyone because everyone is so spread out.

You've got WBA, WBC, IBF, WBO etc, and some with multiple holders. Pure nonsense. The WBA and WBC should be merged as one, and have just one champion in each weight class.

What's even more ridiculous is when you have two divisions divided by 7lbs and yet fighters still find a way to have a catchweight in-between.

I wouldn't doubt if in the next 10 years they find a way to squeeze a weight-class between welterweight and jr.middleweight.
Anything to hand out more belts for sanctioning fee's, hide fighters and make money.

Shrinking down to 10 divisions should be super easy and would breath new life into the sport.
Not sure we can do anything about the belts though. The promoters love them, and so do the fighters.
If a fighter of Mayweather's ilk would throw them in the trash and proclaim that only the Ring belt had worth, there might be a chance.