If you commit to a strike you shouldn't be able to stuff a TD

[Evil97]

Re: If you commit to a strike you shouldn't be able to stuff a TD

Right now guys can just lean backwards, gain GA and then get a takedown, most of the time when they first Leaname back it seems to make their stomach invulnerable, I don't know how many times my stomach kicks/punches just mysteriously wiff when they lean back.

Leaning back is not the ideal method to pull off takedowns, unless you time it to miss a head kick at the end of a combo. I would never do it if they lead with it, because you will likely come face first into an uppercut. All takedowns need to be timed, or you will eat a shot coming in, or just be slightly out of range. The best method is to catch your opponent missing slightly out of range, sway forward, and left and right if you want to risk it and shoot in during a missed strike. It actually feels quite natural.

[trainbyday1]

Re: If you commit to a strike you shouldn't be able to stuff a TD

91-9 in ranked. I'm not even a ground fighter so I don't know what you're getting at. By destroy I meant when they have no stamina because I denied them once and I can easily posture up in mount and wreck them. I didn't mean I destroy people in general on the ground as I'm mainly a technical striker.



Lmao I'm sorry I'm not one of your idols. Doesn't mean I can't have valuable feedback. I never said I was "so good" on the ground. I said the grond game is boring and GA is an unrealistic concept. Also, I spar with someone who'd be top 50 if he had the time to actually play hundreds of games. I never play quick match unless I actually face my boy.

It’s true I did make some assumptions based on your last post. Often when people say the ground is too easy it's because they are facing low level guys. You also made it sound like you were a ground champion by saying you let people out of mount. I took that to mean either the competition you are facing is low or you have amazing ground skills. Basically I don't think you can ever say the ground game is easily if you are facing a top player. Play the FRO guy who won the LEC competition or Zhunter on the ground then tell me the ground game is easy.

I got to give you credit though 91-9 is very decent for ranked and shows that you understand the game well. Anybody can give feedback but it is only valuable IMO if the feedback comes from a decent player which is why I asked about your record and if you play ranked. I have often heard people say this game is too easy or take downs are too easy etc then you check their record and they are like 300-260 or they only play quick match. Hence I just wanted to clarify you are not one of those guys and it appears you are not. Also Big CEE is the only guy I would call my hero for his funny comments and avatars alone especially back in the EA UFC Forums days. I faced Morgan once online and he was tough also his comments on the EA UFC forums always made sense to me.

You said you train with someone good? Who do you train with though? My crew will mess up your crew.

[OneDrop]

Re: If you commit to a strike you shouldn't be able to stuff a TD

It’s true I did make some assumptions based on your last post. Often when people say the ground is too easy it's because they are facing low level guys. You also made it sound like you were a ground champion by saying you let people out of mount. I took that to mean either the competition you are facing is low or you have amazing ground skills. Basically I don't think you can ever say the ground game is easily if you are facing a top player. Play the FRO guy who won the LEC competition or Zhunter on the ground then tell me the ground game is easy.

I got to give you credit though 91-9 is very decent for ranked and shows that you understand the game well. Anybody can give feedback but it is only valuable IMO if the feedback comes from a decent player which is why I asked about your record and if you play ranked. I have often heard people say this game is too easy or take downs are too easy etc then you check their record and they are like 300-260 or they only play quick match. Hence I just wanted to clarify you are not one of those guys and it appears you are not. Also Big CEE is the only guy I would call my hero for his funny comments and avatars alone especially back in the EA UFC Forums days. I faced Morgan once online and he was tough also his comments on the EA UFC forums always made sense to me.

You said you train with someone good? Who do you train with though? My crew will mess up your crew.

I never said ground game's easy. In my opinion a little skill difference in one's grappling skills can be a huge difference in this game which I don't like. That's because the ground game in this game is so deadly. I wouldn't have a problem with it if striking was as dangerous, but it's not. I can hit someone with 50 well-timed flush counter strikes and he's not even going to be rocked. But dare I eat three punches on the ground. The balance is just off.

Most guys with ridiculous records I've faced are set apart by their grappling. I've seen guys with sick records who couldn't match me standing up but as soon as they clinch you or get you down you're in a world of trouble. Why is it that me as a great striker I have to be extremely decent on the ground to run with the best, yet they can be bang average strikers but great grapplers and easily compete with the best?

To adress trainbyday1, I meant grappling doesn't really feel like outworking your opponent. It's just whoever denies the best, will come up on top. I'd like a reworked ground game where you can just premptively hold your opponent, but it'd drain stamina, just like in real life. Grappling in real life is a grind, it's not just transition from one position to another like a knife slicing through butter. You wear people out, outwork them and advance as you do that.

[Boiler569]

Re: If you commit to a strike you shouldn't be able to stuff a TD

Haz was spot on in here. To my knowledge, correct me if I'm wrong, grapple disadvantage isn’t accumulated during recovery frames of a kick and it damn well should be.

For example a player who does a spinning kick, misses it and still has one leg of the ground, or a player who is doing that of-balance recovery animation from getting his heavy high kick blocked, should be at extreme grapple disadvantage during his recovery. A player that is recovering from throwing a more conservative leg strike should be at relatively less grapple disadvantage but should still be at a very, very high grapple disadvantage during their recovery.

This mechanic would be realistic and have a very useful balancing function: it punishes those who spam leg strikes and makes the game more realistic. Right now, I can block someones high/mid kick and they can still deny my take down during their recovery, even though they've just committed to a strike and have one leg of the bloody ground, its make absolute no ****ing sense.

agreed

this type of issue + lack of stamina playing a major factor in the TD game, are my main complaints.

If by fixing these *ERRORS* ---- community then feels TDs become overpowered --- we can go from there, and nerf them a bit in other ways --- but these two areas need to be fixed first.

There is no reason that someone with >80% stamina shouldn't be able to score a guaranteed takedown against someone with <20% stamina, if they are about equal wrestlers. I'm sorry, you just can't convince me otherwise lol

[Boiler569]

Re: If you commit to a strike you shouldn't be able to stuff a TD

Come on guys. Can we just be honest with ourselves, and each other for a minute here...

Holding L2 + Back to generate some magical "Grapple Advantage" that somehow gives you the ability to shoot better takedowns, for no discernible reason, is a craaaazy goofy mechanic.

How can you be a legit MMA fan, and be like "Yeah, Takedowns are perfect right now!" with such an unrealistic, video gamey, mechanic in place?

We need to get rid of that silly system ENTIRELY. Takedowns need to be all about timing, not building up some invisible takedown meter before attempting a takedown..

----------------

As a side note, I really really wish we had Intercepting Knees in this game!

Pretty much spot on

I'm a HUGE fan of head movement and leaning/lunging/side step...and I understand and like that they give you some grapple advantage...but that shouldnt' be the main, and almost the only, way to really score quality standing takedowns.

Like you said, timing should be everything (and stamina )

And yes I wish we had intercept knee!!! TD spammers would be punished big time; I remember in a top level league fight for EA MMA I ended up take a knee or two to the face and realized...yup...I BETTER STOP telegraphing my takedowns or I'm going to get KTFO

[Morgan Monkman]

Re: If you commit to a strike you shouldn't be able to stuff a TD

I never said ground game's easy. In my opinion a little skill difference in one's grappling skills can be a huge difference in this game which I don't like. That's because the ground game in this game is so deadly. I wouldn't have a problem with it if striking was as dangerous, but it's not. I can hit someone with 50 well-timed flush counter strikes and he's not even going to be rocked. But dare I eat three punches on the ground. The balance is just off.

Most guys with ridiculous records I've faced are set apart by their grappling. I've seen guys with sick records who couldn't match me standing up but as soon as they clinch you or get you down you're in a world of trouble. Why is it that me as a great striker I have to be extremely decent on the ground to run with the best, yet they can be bang average strikers but great grapplers and easily compete with the best?

To adress trainbyday1, I meant grappling doesn't really feel like outworking your opponent. It's just whoever denies the best, will come up on top. I'd like a reworked ground game where you can just premptively hold your opponent, but it'd drain stamina, just like in real life. Grappling in real life is a grind, it's not just transition from one position to another like a knife slicing through butter. You wear people out, outwork them and advance as you do that.

Preach brotha!

The difference between standing and ground is far it's unreal.

I can unload on guys for 4 rounds straight and not get a KO, but if they happen to finally get me to the ground land a couple punches the game is over.

What ever happened to the saying every fight starts standing?

Definitely doesn't seem to matter in this game.

[Morgan Monkman]

Re: If you commit to a strike you shouldn't be able to stuff a TD

This happened to me lastnight, I couldn't block, I couldn't transitions what the hell is this **** man.

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[norml]

Re: If you commit to a strike you shouldn't be able to stuff a TD

Just make TD and Clinch denials the same as denials on the ground and in the clinch. The ability to input the denial pre-emptively is a problem. If you try to deny a TD early it should be just like miss timing a ground denial. Your controller vibrates, you start to lose stamina, and you can't deny.

If you are in a strike animation, no ability to deny. If you are in a recovery animation the denial window is cut in half.

The ability to pre-deny needs to go.

That would definitely make TD's op lol.

Lots of strikers assume a low stance to defend sm takedowns so they are all preemptively blocking anyways.

I din't think it would make TD's OP. It would force people to use striking more realistically/unpredictably. You want to keep throwing magic hit stun combos, you should be on your ***.

Everyone who thinks TD's are fine keep saying you need to sway or time them better. Why shouldn't you also have to time a denial?

[Boiler569]

Re: If you commit to a strike you shouldn't be able to stuff a TD

This happened to me lastnight, I couldn't block, I couldn't transitions what the hell is this **** man.

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wow man

I've had someone do that to me once...not to that extreme (he did it a couple times; not 10x in a row) --- and I didn't call him out (even though it was a League fight and that would probably be considered against the rules) ----

but that's something that definitely needs looked at!

[Evil97]

Re: If you commit to a strike you shouldn't be able to stuff a TD

This happened to me lastnight, I couldn't block, I couldn't transitions what the hell is this **** man.

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That is a fake to north south from the guy on top. Hit causes your fighter to drop his guard, but you WILL block the next strike. Don't panic. Unfortunately, if he has been practicing this tacit, he can time the next fake to north south before you transition after the block. It's actually not an issue once you learn the counter. You can deny that fake, and some fighters even have a reversal from the deny. Once you hit that deny, you can easily get out and have a stamina advantage. If you have the reversal, he will crap himself.

[Morgan Monkman]

Re: If you commit to a strike you shouldn't be able to stuff a TD

That is a fake to north south from the guy on top. Hit causes your fighter to drop his guard, but you WILL block the next strike. Don't panic. Unfortunately, if he has been practicing this tacit, he can time the next fake to north south before you transition after the block. It's actually not an issue once you learn the counter. You can deny that fake, and some fighters even have a reversal from the deny. Once you hit that deny, you can easily get out and have a stamina advantage. If you have the reversal, he will crap himself.

It wouldn't let me do anything though, it let me block once and that's it.

Also, in my opinion it's not about knowing the counter, it's the fact that the ground d mechanics allow something like this to happen.

I mean I couldn't even move! He koed me with no freaking stamina! What the hell!

It's hardens back to being able to stand up, why can't alistair freaking overeem stand up from bottom side control?

Why isn't the get up L3 instead of a transition?

Getting up should be L3 from any freaking place on the ground.

Not" certain" spots.

If you are telling me Alistair Oveeremm shouldn't be able to stand up from side control then I don't know what else to say.

[Evil97]

Re: If you commit to a strike you shouldn't be able to stuff a TD

You could have denied/reversed his fake to north south. The timing can be a bit tricky, but against someone completely gassed like there, it's pretty easy. In that vid: R2 and Left.

Edit: Please do not take any of my solutions and advice as me defending the mechanics. Just want to help so you can counter that cheese.

[EJ_Manuel]

Re: If you commit to a strike you shouldn't be able to stuff a TD

It wouldn't let me do anything though, it let me block once and that's it.

Also, in my opinion it's not about knowing the counter, it's the fact that the ground d mechanics allow something like this to happen.

I mean I couldn't even move! He koed me with no freaking stamina! What the hell!

It's hardens back to being able to stand up, why can't alistair freaking overeem stand up from bottom side control?

Why isn't the get up L3 instead of a transition?

Getting up should be L3 from any freaking place on the ground.

Not" certain" spots.

If you are telling me Alistair Oveeremm shouldn't be able to stand up from side control then I don't know what else to say.

Getups in general should be easier. Getting up from full guard is nearly impossible without big time GA since all the animations are slow as hell.

[SpartanZombieXD]

Re: If you commit to a strike you shouldn't be able to stuff a TD

Ive been having luck mixing a takedown into the middle of a striking exchange (me throwing aswell), As long as theyre not uppercutting or body jabbing at the moment that you shoot, high chance of the TD

[Morgan Monkman]

Re: If you commit to a strike you shouldn't be able to stuff a TD

You could have denied/reversed his fake to north south. The timing can be a bit tricky, but against someone completely gassed like there, it's pretty easy. In that vid: R2 and Left.

Edit: Please do not take any of my solutions and advice as me defending the mechanics. Just want to help so you can counter that cheese.

I tried denying and nothing happened.. maybe i was just pissed about it and wasnt timing it right.

As for the rest of my post, sorry, that wasn't directed at you more just me ranting about the inane ground game.