Sway And Pray. Let's Talk About This.

[RetractedMonkey]

Despite the workarounds that GPD laid out, a good player that holds block against you cannot be guard broken with those methods. They will immediately duck and uppercut, you also can’t bait them into throwing because feints aren’t very effective and you’ll already be in the middle of your combo. If you choose to do it back to them, a body knee war will ensue. It’s trash gameplay when you run into one of these guys and looks even worse.

If the opponent is in clinch range holding block, there needs to be significant bleed through on blocked strikes and even faster guard breakdown. This has roots in realism as well because the farther you are the faster you can respond to strikes and evade. If you’re contending with strikes on your guard that close, you shouldn’t be able to duck that fast.

Holding block should cause a decent slowdown on movement speed, preventing someone from walking you down with the guard up. A 20% reduction seems hefty but fair.

Head movement should also cost stamina. Perhaps the same as a lunge. Right now the meta is either hold block and walk them down or extremely fast paced gameplay of two players guessing lean angles to counter each other. That’s not how real fights look.

To eliminate this, keep the effectiveness of lean counter rocks (they’re almost guaranteed rocks), but double the effectiveness of a shot that counters the lean. Head movement should be a few times per round thing, not the basis of all gameplay. A counter hook against a side lean currently does only stun damage. Devs should switch the damage to an instant rock and if followed up with another hook, at least a severe knockdown. This along with stamina costs makes the gameplay meta far less about head movement counters and more about exchanges of strikes. The costs for head movement and leaning into strikes should be SEVERE.

Currently, there is no exchanging of punches at high level play. If you try to throw a 1-2-3 your opponent will block the first two and duck the hook to counter almost every time. This leads to both players either circling the outside and looking for lean counters on whoever strikes first or the two engaging in high paced back and forth lean guessing.


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Lets all answer this question.

Why don't MOST fighters stand directly in front of each other in real fights?

They don't because the risk of getting knocked out cold increases exponentially the closer you are to each other. They don't because JUST holding high block does not offer anywhere near the protection required to absorb blows repeatedly. Fighters understand, that in real life, you don't need a long combination to break the block.... One perfectly placed straight can pierce through the block and do damage.

This is why we see certain fighters like Justin Gaethje, use a combination of sways, parries and high block to close the distance, stay close to opponents and then fire off combos. Swaying while blocking, gives you the ability to block better, and since we can't block and sway or parry in this game, the strength of the high block, which directly makes walking down opponents easy, is simply not justified.

If you keep your head completely still while walking towards an opponent, you get blown up if they hit you from a distance where they can leverage the full power of their shots. And a fighter can do this without wasting too much stamina.

Another important thing to note is that, a fighter guarding his face or body does not move forward as quickly as a fighter who isn't.

The fact that players can close the distance safely by holding high block until they come face to face + the fact that they don't lose any forward moving speed while guarding their face = Forward pressure being far too easy... much easier than it should be.

This has already been suggested here, but it's important to state it again.

* It should take fewer combinations to break through the block

The thing is, most players who play in this "Stand right in front of your face style" usually advance while holding high block. Making it easier to break their block will AT LEAST solve that issue. That takes away one clear safety net from them.

One of these players could counter with... "Okay but so what? I'll just block sparingly and move my head the rest of the time and counter you while you try to break my block, now what?"

* Apart from running, movement speed should be fastest when the fighter is doing nothing else but simply moving, (Also depending on footwork stats).

Doesn't matter if you're moving and swaying, holding block while moving, throwing moving strikes, none of these should cover more distance than simply moving.

Example 1:

Fighter A is holding block while moving forward.
Fighter B is not holding high block while moving away from fighter A.
Result = Fighter B moves faster than fighter A and is able to keep from being face to face.

Example 2:

Fighter A is ducking and swaying while moving.
Fighter B is simply moving
Result = Fighter B moves faster than fighter A. This way, fighter A can't close distance quickly by simply moving with head movement.

Example 3:

Fighter A is throwing a bunch of forward moving strikes.
Fighter B is moving backward.
Result = Fighter A maybe lands the first strike if he's close enough but whiffs the rest and is unable to chase down fighter B with forward moving strikes.

The goal here is for pressure fighters to FIRST close distance with footwork, trap opponents with footwork first, before throwing shots.

Now, I know that this will also benefit the aggressive fighter, especially when it comes to breaking the block with fewer combos... BUT, if these changes go in and the aggressor is able to get close enough to you to break your block, then he deserves the benefit because he must've used good footwork to trap you, while also avoiding your counters, as opposed to just holding high block and walking you down.

Now the bug with the sustained leans is being fixed. I'm not sure how effective this fix will be so we'll just need to wait and see what that does, but I believe the changes above could potentially solve the issue of fighters standing right in front of you no matter how hard u try to get away from them. If implemented correctly and tested extensively.

[johnmangala]

Re: Guard breaks and head movement changes.

I like the idea of a slowing down movement when blocking. It was like that before and it was better.

Of course breaking down block should be easier and head movement needs some tweaks.
There should be a sensitivity to head movement, perhaps at the cost of some stamina.

[Serengeti1]

Re: Guard breaks and head movement changes.

This leads to both players either circling the outside and looking for lean counters on whoever strikes first or the two engaging in high paced back and forth lean guessing.

This is exactly what I'm running into constantly. I can see the game's potential so much but holy ****... I hate that ****. Guys will be in the ducking/swaying position for a whole second and still dodge your strike and come back with a counter. If you kick them in the head... It just does a bit of damage but no rock. It makes my blood boil lol

[RetractedMonkey]

Re: Guard breaks and head movement changes.

Also, currently the fighter moving their head has an advantage over the original attacker because of stamina. The first person expends stamina with their strikes and then loses even more from getting countered. While the leaner loses no stamina from the lean and takes negligible loses from the punches he lands, blocked or not. This causes a higher percentage of damage to the attacker FURTHER discouraging leading.


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[Serengeti1]

Re: Guard breaks and head movement changes.

Imo you can go as far as saying how this currently is is game breaking. The game is playing terribly at a high level right now. Idk if MM put out a video on this or something but nearly every fight I've had the guy is on the outside using the stationary head movement and feels like the final boss of a video game. He has every advantage doing that it seems.

[Solid_Altair]

Re: Guard breaks and head movement changes.

As discussed in the other thread, there is a bug with head movement.

And I agree high block is too strong. I've been arguing for a very specific ner to it.

If the opponnet is always punishing whiffs with uppers, you can bait him with a jab, slip to the side and upper him instead; specially if your fighter has good head movement.

[Serengeti1]

Re: Guard breaks and head movement changes.

The online fights I've had today have been utterly ridiculous. Either stationary head movement on the outside or a high block and sway/duck contest. I'm really not exaggerating when I say nearly every single fight has been that way.

I'm not moaning to moan... This has been my experience. Patch is needed ASAP.

[Phillyboi207]

Re: Guard breaks and head movement changes.

The online fights I've had today have been utterly ridiculous. Either stationary head movement on the outside or a high block and sway/duck contest. I'm really not exaggerating when I say nearly every single fight has been that way.

I'm not moaning to moan... This has been my experience. Patch is needed ASAP.

Yeah im waiting for the patch before I play ranked.

Not a fan at all of the current meta

[Faiered]

Re: Guard breaks and head movement changes.

The block needs to be fixed and made more easy to break,head movements need to consume allot more stamina as now they are overdone

[Phillyboi207]

Re: Guard breaks and head movement changes.

The more I think about it the more I really like the idea of lowering block durability if you’re super close. It promotes staying at proper distance to strike. Plus IRL when you’re that close it’s 99% of the time going to be to grapple and like OP said you have less time to react so blocking is harder.

I hope GPD sees this thread.

[Trillz]

Re: Guard breaks and head movement changes.

yh just had a guy spam so many strikes at me ducking around constantly fishing for easy rocks, its way too danerous to go to the body and he never lost that much stamina.

Ground game is just deny lay and pray no ref stand ups as you will see irl.

If you going to nerf block something needs to be done by constant headmovement and striking.

[FCB x Finlay]

Re: Guard breaks and head movement changes.

The more I think about it the more I really like the idea of lowering block durability if you’re super close. It promotes staying at proper distance to strike. Plus IRL when you’re that close it’s 99% of the time going to be to grapple and like OP said you have less time to react so blocking is harder.

I hope GPD sees this thread.

Would this make fighting in the pocket more dangerous for a defender as well, for example someone is pressuring you and by blocking your at a higher risk with this change.

[Phillyboi207]

Re: Guard breaks and head movement changes.

Would this make fighting in the pocket more dangerous for a defender as well, for example someone is pressuring you and by blocking your at a higher risk with this change.

Well yeah.

But the danger would go both ways. If they’re pressuring you they’re risking getting themselves hurt if block is weaker when both fighters are close.

[FCB x Finlay]

Re: Guard breaks and head movement changes.

Well yeah.

But the danger would go both ways. If they’re pressuring you they’re risking getting themselves hurt if block is weaker when both fighters are close.

Im sure you agreed with there somewhere about fighting at distance being impossible at times. Before a block nerf there needs to be something done about defensive movement.

[Faiered]

Re: Guard breaks and head movement changes.

Im sure you agreed with there somewhere about fighting at distance being impossible at times. Before a block nerf there needs to be something done about defensive movement.

i made a thread about Slipping and weaving head movements not consuming stamina