Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

[bmlimo]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

The good thing about a game based on such a complex sport, is that there will always be things that can be implemented to add depth, skill, realism and immersion into the series. I don't think we'll see a day anytime soon where the devs are left wondering what more they can add.


That said, here are a few I have on my radar for now. I will add more later.

Better ranged based accuracy - Currently, damage is significantly reduced for strikes like head kicks and body kicks when not in proper range which can be seen visibly as well(ie; the knee making impact during a roundhouse kick instead of the shin). But this doesn't seem to be a thing for strikes like hooks. You can throw hooks while moving forward, already in elbow range and the strikes still land accurately. I'd like the damage reduced, as well as visually see then forearm/bicep make impact with the head in these situations.


New punch range - A range dedicated to jabs and straights, where hooks and uppercuts can't reach. Making it possible to fight tall, keeping your opponent on the end of your punches without getting clobbered with a hook in an exchange.



New head movement tracking logic - Currently, if some throws a 3-4 and you duck and hold it, the 3 will miss but the 4 will hit you. This is an even bigger issue when trying to slip inside of a backwards or side moving 1-2. You slip the jab and get hit with the straight.


Heart rate based stamina system - The current stamina system isn't terrible, but I think in order to get to where we want, it needs to be scrapped and replaced with a system that is both more immersive and that can be measured (How much is 30% stamina?).




<a href="https://ibb.co/4jpts0j"><img src="https://i.ibb.co/sFqR5XF/heartrate.png" alt="heartrate" border="0"></a><br /><a target='_blank' href='https://imgbb.com/'>image uploader</a><br />



In this case, you would pick a maximum heart rate possible to reach in game(lets call this the red zone). You would then pick a baseline/starting heart rate for each fighter, which could be based on the stamina stat. Lets say 55bpm for Diaz, 70bpm for Conor(Lets call this the green zone). Then, the endurance stat would dictate how certain actions(swaying, kicking, punching, getting hit, getting kicked, grappling, blocking, moving..etc) effect the rising heart rate for each fighter.



You could also have stats like movement, head movement, top game, bottom game, takedown offense, takedown defense..etc effect heart rate based on the usage of that action.(Example: Head movement stat is high, so heart rate doesn't raise as fast when using head movement).



- 4 Zones
Ideally you want to stay at the lowest heart rate possible while being efficient. Or at least not red zoning until the last minute of the last round or so..etc, because when your bpm rises past the green zone, your performance is negatively impacted by things like slower movement speed, slower strikes, less durability and tolerance to damage(higher vuln), and limited combos before throwing completely labored strikes.



Green zone(55bpm-85bpm)
Yellow Zone(86bpm-125bpm)

Orange Zone(126bpm-160bpm
Red Zone(161bpm-190bpmMAX)



A few perks of this system include,



- Take rounds off by performing less actions and conceding a round in order to allow your heart rate to lower and come back strong next round.


- Steal the round by performing less actions in the beginning of a round to come back strong at the end of the round.



- Being able to throw more than 15 punches before gassing short term(which happens even if you are completely fresh currently). Giving aggressive players more freedom at the risk of not getting the finish and paying for it by possibly red zoning very early in the fight.


- Would allow body shots to be powerful, but not overpowered or overused to create a meta of body mining, as they would not have a permanent impact on cardio throughout the fight. As getting hit with a good body strike would spike the heart rate, but can be recovered from as time goes on.


- Dynamic fighter meta that rewards you for playing to your fighters strengths, such as Stephen Thomson having good footwork/movement, so he can use footwork more efficiently without his heart rate rising as fast.

The fight tall, strikes range and the hearth thing are amazing

[Evil97]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

Really tbh, this whole Gamechanger program should be scrapped, all of you guys except for Martial, really blow imho.

People on this forum keep going back & forth with these "Gamechangers" as if the gc's have a say or as if the state of the game is dependant on their approval. Only to be told they "don't agree"

(yeah im pointing my finger at you gc from brazil, i forgot his name thankfully)

If this very thread here doesn't show you that there will always be bias and cases of ad hominem between community and these dudes. Idk what will

I think it's time for a new GC Poll, and this should happen each new release. or either scrap it.. U guys (besides gc members duh) don't agree?

I don't agree. I believe the GC's and the GC program have greatly improved the EA UFC franchise since implemented. Those guys aren't getting paid, and I couldn't be more thankful for the time and effort they have put in.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Operation Sports mobile app

[Phillyboi207]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

The good thing about a game based on such a complex sport, is that there will always be things that can be implemented to add depth, skill, realism and immersion into the series. I don't think we'll see a day anytime soon where the devs are left wondering what more they can add.


That said, here are a few I have on my radar for now. I will add more later.

Better ranged based accuracy - Currently, damage is significantly reduced for strikes like head kicks and body kicks when not in proper range which can be seen visibly as well(ie; the knee making impact during a roundhouse kick instead of the shin). But this doesn't seem to be a thing for strikes like hooks. You can throw hooks while moving forward, already in elbow range and the strikes still land accurately. I'd like the damage reduced, as well as visually see then forearm/bicep make impact with the head in these situations.


New punch range - A range dedicated to jabs and straights, where hooks and uppercuts can't reach. Making it possible to fight tall, keeping your opponent on the end of your punches without getting clobbered with a hook in an exchange.



New head movement tracking logic - Currently, if some throws a 3-4 and you duck and hold it, the 3 will miss but the 4 will hit you. This is an even bigger issue when trying to slip inside of a backwards or side moving 1-2. You slip the jab and get hit with the straight.


Heart rate based stamina system - The current stamina system isn't terrible, but I think in order to get to where we want, it needs to be scrapped and replaced with a system that is both more immersive and that can be measured (How much is 30% stamina?).




<a href="https://ibb.co/4jpts0j"><img src="https://i.ibb.co/sFqR5XF/heartrate.png" alt="heartrate" border="0"></a><br /><a target='_blank' href='https://imgbb.com/'>image uploader</a><br />



In this case, you would pick a maximum heart rate possible to reach in game(lets call this the red zone). You would then pick a baseline/starting heart rate for each fighter, which could be based on the stamina stat. Lets say 55bpm for Diaz, 70bpm for Conor(Lets call this the green zone). Then, the endurance stat would dictate how certain actions(swaying, kicking, punching, getting hit, getting kicked, grappling, blocking, moving..etc) effect the rising heart rate for each fighter.



You could also have stats like movement, head movement, top game, bottom game, takedown offense, takedown defense..etc effect heart rate based on the usage of that action.(Example: Head movement stat is high, so heart rate doesn't raise as fast when using head movement).



- 4 Zones
Ideally you want to stay at the lowest heart rate possible while being efficient. Or at least not red zoning until the last minute of the last round or so..etc, because when your bpm rises past the green zone, your performance is negatively impacted by things like slower movement speed, slower strikes, less durability and tolerance to damage(higher vuln), and limited combos before throwing completely labored strikes.



Green zone(55bpm-85bpm)
Yellow Zone(86bpm-125bpm)

Orange Zone(126bpm-160bpm
Red Zone(161bpm-190bpmMAX)



A few perks of this system include,



- Take rounds off by performing less actions and conceding a round in order to allow your heart rate to lower and come back strong next round.


- Steal the round by performing less actions in the beginning of a round to come back strong at the end of the round.



- Being able to throw more than 15 punches before gassing short term(which happens even if you are completely fresh currently). Giving aggressive players more freedom at the risk of not getting the finish and paying for it by possibly red zoning very early in the fight.


- Would allow body shots to be powerful, but not overpowered or overused to create a meta of body mining, as they would not have a permanent impact on cardio throughout the fight. As getting hit with a good body strike would spike the heart rate, but can be recovered from as time goes on.


- Dynamic fighter meta that rewards you for playing to your fighters strengths, such as Stephen Thomson having good footwork/movement, so he can use footwork more efficiently without his heart rate rising as fast.

Okay that heart rate system sounds incredible and is a brilliant idea. I agree with the strike accuracy as well.

I hope new ranges are added but more than just a straight punch range. I’d love to see inside uppercuts/hooks that are different fron long range hooks/uppercuts that we have in the game.

It really does sound like both sides arent too far from each other

Out of Zombie’a ideas the only one I dont like is the “sticky cage”. I dont think it works like boxing because there arent really corners like there are in a ring.

I’d love to see a stumble animation if someone attempts a backwards lunge,sway, step,or stiff arm retreat and they hit the cage. During the stumble you’d be at massive grapple disadvantage and can’t do anything but block.

If your back is against the cage and any side movement or side lunge is attempted the stumble would also occur. This way your only movement options would be to use head movement(ducking and side sways) or to come forward off the cage.

[aholbert32]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

I don't agree. I believe the GC's and the GC program have greatly improved the EA UFC franchise since implemented. Those guys aren't getting paid, and I couldn't be more thankful for the time and effort they have put in.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Operation Sports mobile app

Ignore that post. Its either someone in this thread with multiple accounts or a previously banned user with a new account. New users dont simply swoop in and start talking about the GC program and/or specific GCs as if they have a history with them.

[aholbert32]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

Okay that heart rate system sounds incredible and is a brilliant idea. I agree with the strike accuracy as well.

I hope new ranges are added but more than just a straight punch range. I’d love to see inside uppercuts/hooks that are different fron long range hooks/uppercuts that we have in the game.

It really does sound like both sides arent too far from each other

Out of Zombie’a ideas the only one I dont like is the “sticky cage”. I dont think it works like boxing because there arent really corners like there are in a ring.

I’d love to see a stumble animation if someone attempts a backwards lunge,sway, step,or stiff arm retreat and they hit the cage. During the stumble you’d be at massive grapple disadvantage and can’t do anything but block.

If your back is against the cage and any side movement or side lunge is attempted the stumble would also occur. This way your only movement options would be to use head movement(ducking and side sways) or to come forward off the cage.

This is the one that I've always disliked for the same reasons. I know why Zombie wants it though. I would only be ok with it if the "stickiness" effect was minimal and only if the person purposely puts himself against the cage or is pressured through grappling or cage cutting to hit the cage.

[Kingslayer04]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

Sorry, can someone re-post Zombie's suggestions so I don't have to go through 30 pages to find them? Thanks! Also, @ZHunter, according to your idea, what happens to the heart rate when you take damage? I'm also thinking about the effect adrenaline has on fighters in tough moments, but as an advocate of realism, I think we have to be really careful with that, lest we end up with another, new kind of rock fests in fights. Anyway, I like your suggestion and it's great to see a gamechanger make suggestions that are in favour of realism.

[Haz____]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

Great ideas from Zhunter. The heart rate idea is brilliant! Super interesting stuff.




"Sticky cage" is just an absolutely totally insane idea though. That is just terrible. Keep weird *** pure video game mechanics far far farrrrr away.

Nothing about the cage should be "sticky".

Also worth noting, you often see guys back into the cage intentionally, with their back flexed, or their butt kinda out, and sort of bounce off the cage to keep moving. Sort of as a range/location finder. Happens pretty commonly.

Nothing about the cage should be "sticky".

[Haz____]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

Consider you tend to be pro realism, I'm surprised. You can check kicks now very easily, even if you get tagged by a 3 piece combo.

So here's the problem. As long as moving strikes are based on unrealistic video game fundementals, you need to have moving defense as well.

The way you move and strike in this game is not how anyone actually strikes irl. In this game you cover too much ground, too fast, while both moving and striking simultaneously. That's just not how striking actually works.

Yes you can move while striking irl, but its actually very hard to do. In almost every real life situation you use footwork to get into position, and plant & throw. No one irl is just constantly running while striking. That's just not how it works.

Untill moving strikes are handled with real world fundementals, something like an idle check kick totally clashes with how their current striking system functions.

If you want to have it so you need to plant to check a kick, ease and effectiveness of moving strikes need to also be looked at.

In this game it's too easy to stick to someone like glue. Needing to stop to check leg kicks would be borderline game breaking if other aspects werent tuned as well, imho.

[1212headkick]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

So here's the problem. As long as moving strikes are based on unrealistic video game fundementals, you need to have moving defense as well.

The way you move and strike in this game is not how anyone actually strikes irl. In this game you cover too much ground, too fast, while both moving and striking simultaneously. That's just not how striking actually works.

Yes you can move while striking irl, but its actually very hard to do. In almost every real life situation you use footwork to get into position, and plant & throw. No one irl is just constantly running while striking. That's just not how it works.

Untill moving strikes are handled with real world fundementals, something like an idle check kick totally clashes with how their current striking system functions.

If you want to have it so you need to plant to check a kick, ease and effectiveness of moving strikes need to also be looked at.

In this game it's too easy to stick to someone like glue. Needing to stop to check leg kicks would be borderline game breaking if other aspects werent tuned as well, imho.

In real life striking from the neutral stance is more common. People plant and move. Heres an example of the shuffle step being used. The anti circle groups statements are completely baseless
It comes down to fight iq.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8D3vf-VO3A

[bmlimo]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

Zombie look in the Xbox one rankings for rowdy champ, he is a knee-elbow spammer that has vídeos winning against Xbox. Top 10 guys, as you guys can see, inst a problem about been average player, it’s a ****** tactic that works unbeliviable great at this game

[RomeroXVII]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

So here's the problem. As long as moving strikes are based on unrealistic video game fundementals, you need to have moving defense as well.

The way you move and strike in this game is not how anyone actually strikes irl. In this game you cover too much ground, too fast, while both moving and striking simultaneously. That's just not how striking actually works.

Yes you can move while striking irl, but its actually very hard to do. In almost every real life situation you use footwork to get into position, and plant & throw. No one irl is just constantly running while striking. That's just not how it works.

Untill moving strikes are handled with real world fundementals, something like an idle check kick totally clashes with how their current striking system functions.

If you want to have it so you need to plant to check a kick, ease and effectiveness of moving strikes need to also be looked at.

In this game it's too easy to stick to someone like glue. Needing to stop to check leg kicks would be borderline game breaking if other aspects werent tuned as well, imho.

If the clinch intiation was much smoother for next game, would that not remove that sticking to glue issue since people would have to fear the clinch a lot more if they're too close?

[Tyeanisbae]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

If the clinch intiation was much smoother for next game, would that not remove that sticking to glue issue since people would have to fear the clinch a lot more if they're too close?

Problem with that is it might be too easy to pressure fighters with lower footwork and bad grappling into a clinch situation.

[1212headkick]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

I implore you all to watch the link I sent and how the shuffle step should be fair to both fighters and it shows what we’re missing with footwork and defense

[ZHunter1990]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

Sorry, can someone re-post Zombie's suggestions so I don't have to go through 30 pages to find them? Thanks! Also, @ZHunter, according to your idea, what happens to the heart rate when you take damage? I'm also thinking about the effect adrenaline has on fighters in tough moments, but as an advocate of realism, I think we have to be really careful with that, lest we end up with another, new kind of rock fests in fights. Anyway, I like your suggestion and it's great to see a gamechanger make suggestions that are in favour of realism.

I don't think long term damage should have a significant impact, if any on heart rate, I think that could cause a huge snowball effect.


As for short term, I think it should be based on severity of the strike damage. Eating a few jabs could just keep your heart rate form lowering. Eating a headkick and getting rocked would actually raise your heart rate..etc


Some of the GCer's including myself get a wrap for "not wanting realism" which isn't true, although I can see why, because we debate against many realistic things being added INDIVIDUALLY.


I admittedly favor balance over realism, but that doesn't mean I don't care about realism. I've been training BJJ over 10 years, I've been doing Muay Thai and boxing on and off in that time, I own my own BJJ academy..etc.
Martial arts is a very important part of my life and I'd like the series to accurately reflect MMA.


I also think that many people put balance ahead of realism without recognizing it, if I said "Lets add a soft punch modifier(Think Diaz Bros) so we can throw more volume with less stamina drain", I would be combated with "NO, there is already too many strikes being thrown per round!" Even though its a request for something realistic, it would throw off the meta balance.



That said, I realize that each game in the series is its own work of art. Many times what could be seen potential improvements could negatively impact the piece of art as a whole and throw it off completely. Sometimes you have to learn to appreciate it for what it is and wait for the next art piece that may not be bound to the restraints of the previous piece.


Before becoming a GC, I had a very similar perspective to many of the guys on this thread. I've come to realize that if you get what you ask for, you also may get a result that you didn't want by unintended consequence.



I hope that makes sense.

[1212headkick]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

I don't think long term damage should have a significant impact, if any on heart rate, I think that could cause a huge snowball effect.


As for short term, I think it should be based on severity of the strike damage. Eating a few jabs could just keep your heart rate form lowering. Eating a headkick and getting rocked would actually raise your heart rate..etc


Some of the GCer's including myself get a wrap for "not wanting realism" which isn't true, although I can see why, because we debate against many realistic things being added INDIVIDUALLY.


I admittedly favor balance over realism, but that doesn't mean I don't care about realism. I've been training BJJ over 10 years, I've been doing Muay Thai and boxing on and off in that time, I own my own BJJ academy..etc.
Martial arts is a very important part of my life and I'd like the series to accurately reflect MMA.


I also think that many people put balance ahead of realism without recognizing it, if I said "Lets add a soft punch modifier(Think Diaz Bros) so we can throw more volume with less stamina drain", I would be combated with "NO, there is already too many strikes being thrown per round!" Even though its a request for something realistic, it would throw off the meta balance.



That said, I realize that each game in the series is its own work of art. Many times what could be seen potential improvements could negatively impact the piece of art as a whole and throw it off completely. Sometimes you have to learn to appreciate it for what it is and wait for the next art piece that may not be bound to the restraints of the previous piece.


Before becoming a GC, I had a very similar perspective to many of the guys on this thread. I've come to realize that if you get what you ask for, you also may get a result that you didn't want by unintended consequence.



I hope that makes sense.

You had me at Diaz bros. For all that’s holy please put that in please. The only thing that needs to be done is not allowing max Holloway output from Conor McGregor if that makes sense. People should gas from inaccuracy. Also people should no that fight the shuffle step as it would benefit both sides. Inside and outside fighters. I’ve begged for the soft punch modifier forever and ever and ever. OLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE