UFC 108: Evans v. T Silva

[KENYON06]

Re: UFC 108: Evans v. T Silva

I just have to say LOL. That was hilarious, one of the biggest WTF moments in a fight I have seen.

I'm with other guys that think just laying on someone is an annoying strategy, but it is what it is. It's like watching a boxing match where it's just ticky tack moves all night to get a decision and not get knocked out. Sucks, but I suppose it is a skill to 'control' someone like Coutoure did a few weeks ago and Evans did tonight.

[Bornindamecca]

Re: UFC 108: Evans v. T Silva

I don't understand the logic behind "getting up from a takedown should cancel the points." You cancel the points by STUFFING the take down.

Exactly.

[Pappy Knuckles]

Re: UFC 108: Evans v. T Silva

But all he did was take him down or hold him against the fence. That's literally it.

He did absolutely no damage. Every time he got the take down, Thiago worked his way back up. The only damage done at all was Thiago clobbering Evans with that combo - that was it.

It's kind of disappointing to see a guy win buy just taking a guy down and doing nothing, then the other guy working his way up.

The way I see it - if you take a guy down, great. DO SOMETHING. If the guy works his way back up with the other fighter doing nothing, then cancel the points out. Getting up and taking 0 damage from a guy should earn you equal points to the take down itself; because the actions themselves cancel each other out.

If Rashad actually hit him, did some damage, held him down - or anything like that - then it would have been fine; but he really did nothing. It was worse than a Guida dry-hump fest... At least Guida does some damage when he's clinching and laying on top of other fighters, humping their legs.



I guess he was pulling an Evans'. Maybe he should have done a little dance, too - then people would have liked it more.

I thought Rashad's performance in the first two rounds was damn near flawless. He didn't hit him with any haymakers, but he controlled the fight and was one step ahead of Thiago in every aspect. You say he didn't do anything, but by that logic you can say the same thing about Thiago. Was he hitting Rashad with punches, controlling him against the fence, or doing anything more than Rashad was? No he wasn't. He did a good job of getting up but that means nothing.

In the third round the fight was a wrap unless Thiago got a KO. Rashad had no reason to press the action at that point if he didn't want to. However, when Thiago finally did get an opportunity, he didn't do anything with it. I can't shed any tears for him.

I think a lot of you just skim the surface of a fight. I think Born's analysis of what we saw tonight was on point. Shad was looking to time Thiago with punches the whole fight but he didn't put himself into any unnecessary danger either. He threw punches when they were there and used beautifully executed shots to control the direction of the fight.

[Dcooks]

Re: UFC 108: Evans v. T Silva

I thought Rashad's performance in the first two rounds was damn near flawless. He didn't hit him with any haymakers, but he controlled the fight and was one step ahead of Thiago in every aspect. You say he didn't do anything, but by that logic you can say the same thing about Thiago. Was he hitting Rashad with punches, controlling him against the fence, or doing anything more than Rashad was? No he wasn't. He did a good job of getting up but that means nothing.

In the third round the fight was a wrap unless Thiago got a KO. Rashad had no reason to press the action at that point if he didn't want to. However, when Thiago finally did get an opportunity, he didn't do anything with it. I can't shed any tears for him.

I think a lot of you just skim the surface of a fight. I think Born's analysis of what we saw tonight was on point. Shad was looking to time Thiago with punches the whole fight but he didn't put himself into any unnecessary danger either. He threw punches when they were there and used beautifully executed shots to control the direction of the fight.

Agreed. Tht was beautifully put.

[aholbert32]

Re: UFC 108: Evans v. T Silva

But what I don't get is why taking someone down counts for points, while getting back up whilst that fighter is still trying to hold you down counts for nothing.

Why does pulling a guy to the mat, laying on him for 10 seconds, and then being pushed back up count for points? The getting back up part should nullify the take down.

At least do SOMETHING once on the ground.

I understand how it's scored - but I think it's kind of stupid.

Octagon Control. In rounds 1 and 2, Rashad controlled the fight completely with his takedowns and combos. Silva didnt land a punch of consequence in the first 2 rounds and didnt take him down. He didnt control those rounds at all. I could see your argument if Silva was landing strikes consistently and just happened to get taken down by Rashad during those rounds.

[aholbert32]

Re: UFC 108: Evans v. T Silva

In all the years I've watched MMA I have never seen a:

Inverted triangle kimura
Rolling kimura
Rolling sabot kick
Standing rear naked choke from the front (if Rogan doesn't know what it is I don't either)
Spininng backfist/superman punch combo
Jumping spinning back kick

...all in one show.
Will probably never see it again.

Too bad only 2 of them were successful but nice anyway.

I loved the rolling sabot kick attempt. I actualy bought this PPV and it was well worth it.

[aholbert32]

Re: UFC 108: Evans v. T Silva

* Fight Of The Night: Sam Stout and Joe Lauzon
* Submission Of The Night: Cole Miller
* KO Of The Night: Paul Daley


I wouldnt have given Daley the KO of the night since he failed to make weight. There has to be some punishment for that

[MachoMyers]

Re: UFC 108: Evans v. T Silva

I saw the third round of the Evans fight, judging by that, I would say that the fight was pretty crap?

I'm confused. Round 3 was one of the most exciting rounds I have seen lately. Silva gassing out cost him the fight though.

[MachoMyers]

Re: UFC 108: Evans v. T Silva

* Fight Of The Night: Sam Stout and Joe Lauzon
* Submission Of The Night: Cole Miller
* KO Of The Night: Paul Daley


I wouldnt have given Daley the KO of the night since he failed to make weight. There has to be some punishment for that

Just watched the Press Conference after the fights. Dana said "everyone is making money tonight, nobody is getting cut tonight."

I guess that justifies the 'rule' they have about overweight fighters winning bonuses. I agree with you though.

Big ups to Sam Stout for fight of the night.

[MC Fatigue]

Re: UFC 108: Evans v. T Silva

I don't understand the logic behind "getting up from a takedown should cancel the points." You cancel the points by STUFFING the take down.

The point of taking someone down is to do something. This isn't wrestling; and as much as some people think it needs to be judged as such, it needs to be judged as an MMA match.

The entire point of pulling a person to the ground in MMA is to gain control of them and try to finish the fight; to try to do some damage. Rashad never did that.

I'm not saying Rashad didn't control or win the fight - people seem to be thinking I am (from other replies).

What I'm saying is that it's BS that you score points for pulling someone down to the mat and doing absolutely nothing with it. It's not wrestling, it's not about dry humping your opponent for 5 minutes; it's about mixing up the fight and using everything and trying to damage or submit your opponent - if a fighter can't do anything on the ground, the take down was useless and should not count for anything.

Rashad got full mount and and did not land a single punch. He wrestled a guy down, he mounted him, and then get got stood back up within 5 seconds and did not one single ounce of damage.

I'll tell you what else fails about MMA scoring. Takedowns score points, right? Wrong - laying on top of another guy scores points, apparently. If a wrestler pulls a guy down and lays on him and does almost nothing, he wins the fight. If a BJJ fight grabs a guy and pulls guard and works towards a submission and doesn't really get anything - the other fighter is going to get awarded the points because the two went down with him on top.

The scoring is unequal and not thought out at best. I've seen wrestlers sit on top and do nothing, while the guy on the bottom fought to pull submissions and loses because the other guy was laying on top of him.

It simply doesn't make sense.

Again, I'm not saying Rashad didn't win; what I've been saying in he did nothing on the takedowns and they shouldn't count; the only part of the fight that was actually a fight was the standup.

[MC Fatigue]

Re: UFC 108: Evans v. T Silva

Heck - watching that fight again.

-> Rashad attacks a bit and shoots... Eventually takes Silva down. Does absolutely nothing on the ground and I don't believe ever throws a single shot. Gets brought back up every single time and Thiago attacks while getting back up and in the clinch. Rashad got some good exchanges while setting up his takedown, what Thiago mostly landed close up shots.

-> Rashad does more of the same, except Thiago outstrikes him this round. Rashad continuously does nothing with the take down. He doesn't advance position. He doesn't attempt to submit. He doesn't do any damage.

-> More of the same in the last, except Silva finally tags him and almost finishes the fight.

In the end, Thiago almost finished the fight - he had Evans seriously rocked. He got back up from every take down and often attacked while doing so - and over all did more damage in the stand up, and probably attacked more from on the ground with a shot here and there even though he was on the bottom.

[Phillmattic]

Re: UFC 108: Evans v. T Silva

A take down is something a guy has to work for, and that his opponent can counter. I don't want to put words in your mouth but it seems as if you're suggesting that taking someone down is almost "automatic" in that it can't be defended against.

As far as equal scoring between wrestlers and bjj guys, well I don't really know what to say about that. I haven't seen a fight in which someone continually and willingly pulls guard the entire time while not taking or delivering any major damage and go on to lose a decision.

Bouts are scored on octagon control and aggression (along with striking). And Rashad in this fight was controlling the octagon and being aggressive. There are a ton of things Thiago could have done to prevent himself from being slammed repeatedly.

[MC Fatigue]

Re: UFC 108: Evans v. T Silva

It isn't wrestling, though, it's an MMA Fight. If you score for a takedown great. Getting back up from a takedown while the guy is trying to hold you down should count too.

Thiago did just fine once on the ground, and pushed Evans off him every single time and attacked while doing so.

Why does that not count?

[Phillmattic]

Re: UFC 108: Evans v. T Silva

It isn't wrestling, though, it's an MMA Fight. If you score for a takedown great. Getting back up from a takedown while the guy is trying to hold you down should count too.

Thiago did just fine once on the ground, and pushed Evans off him every single time and attacked while doing so.

Why does that not count?

I don't know if you mean scoring in general or just for this fight. But for this specific situation you can't give Thiago the advantage for getting back up after repeatedly getting slammed against his will.

Besides getting back up Thiago wasn't really doing anything at all. After the first couple of minutes everyone knew that Rashads game plan was to keep Thiago on his heels with his strikes then go for the take down. Besides just actually defending against the take down, Thiago could have pressed the action himself, thrown some strikes to keep Rashad at bay and on the outside, moved his feet some more, but he didn't do any of that. He wasn't being the aggressor at all.

Thiago was a victim of his own style.

I understand what you're saying about working from getting back up from a takedown, it isn't easy and it takes work too. But It's something that can and has to be prevented from happening in the first place. You can't let your opponent throw you around like a rag doll.

[Phillmattic]

Re: UFC 108: Evans v. T Silva

Besides it wasn't just the take downs. It was the manner in which the take downs were occurring.

Say for example if Thiago was landing a flurry of shots on Rashad backing him up against the cage and Rashad was able to grab hold of Thiago and get him to the ground, only to have Thiago get back up immediately. Don't you think the Judges would give Thiago the advantage there? Or even if Thiago was landing clean shots here and there throughout the course of that fight and was able to get up immediately after every take down. He would have definitely won the fight.

But he didn't he just let himself get backed up against the cage and repeatedly taken down.