UFC 112 1PM SPOILERS THREAD

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  • Phillmattic
    MVP
    • May 2003
    • 1071

    #346
    Re: UFC 112 1PM SPOILERS THREAD

    Originally posted by ex carrabba fan
    What's so bad about choosing to be a counter puncher? Until someone beats him why should he change?

    It's no excuse. Why are we forgetting about previous fights outside of UFC where Silva didn't need to counter punch to finish? He won the fight, and not only that, he dominated. Who says there's only one way to win?

    I never said Maia ran away from anyone. He just couldn't do anything. No takedowns, no stirkes, nothing. He was outclassed. What Silva did was not against the rules.

    I hope Silva shuts Sonnen's *** up and then who knows what's up with Vitor. Both of those fights have no excuse to be like last night's. After Sonnen is talking all this ****, he had better do something like attempt takedowns.. Vitor will stand and exchange with Silva.

    Maia got f'd up, enough said.
    I don't know why people are saying he's a counter puncher now, he's been fighting like this since the Leben fight. Maybe it didn't seem that way since the fight was so quick and Leben was so aggressive.

    I wouldn't even say he's just a counter puncher, he's extremely balanced. He starts his fights off patiently to see what his opponent is throwing and at what pace, then he starts looking for openings peppering shots and creating openings.

    If the UFC was smart they would not put Silva in the ring with Sonnen. His next MW defense should be against Vitor and not another 1 dimensional fighter like Sonnen. They should leapfrog Sonnen like they did Maynard.

    I have a feeling that the GSP fight is coming soon. Dana said that Silva doesn't deserve GSP but they know that the fight would makes loads of money.
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    • mgoblue
      Go Wings!
      • Jul 2002
      • 25477

      #347
      Re: UFC 112 1PM SPOILERS THREAD

      Originally posted by TheShizNo1
      dude that fight was done. there was no question.
      I'm not debating that Silva destroyed him, just saying that dancing for 3 rounds into a decision is not finishing a fight.

      If Silva even just attempts to attack and knock out Maia this is all a non issue. The fact is that this is what Silva does now, and fans don't enjoy it. We pay his paycheck, and PPV buys are now in doubt.

      What he did is completely within the rules, but doesn't fly with fans. I'm sure his next contract negotiation will be a pay cut because of his performances.

      If Silva tries to attack and it still goes to a decision that's fine, but he just didn't give a damn.
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      • Bornindamecca
        Books Nelson Simnation
        • Jul 2007
        • 10919

        #348
        Re: UFC 112 1PM SPOILERS THREAD

        Originally posted by aholbert32
        Being a counter puncher isnt bad when you either dont have the ability to initiate strikes or if your opponent is a better striker. But I guess its ok for Silva to play it safe. Because safe fighters are the fighters people want to see. People love watching Brock because he plays it safe. People have spent millions of dollars to watch Chuck fight because he plays it safe. I know when I watch my Top 100 UFC fights of all time there are a ton of safe fights with fighters doing nothing but feinting, circling and waiting for someone to throw a punch.

        That is exactly what UFC fans love to watch.

        No one said there is only one way to win. Thats obvious. Silva showed that yesterday. There is an entertaining and crowd pleasing way which is to dominate AND FINISH your opponent. Or there is another way which is to show up your opponent, refuse to take risks and win a boring decision. Silva chose option 2.
        Neither Ex nor myself are saying we don't understand why people are frustrated by the fact that he chose option 2. Thing is, there is a way to stop a guy from taking that option. Go. at. him.

        No one in the UFC has his opponents as terrified as Silva does. When people fight him, they think that a mistake will lead to painful embarrassment. A rarely mentioned fact is that Silva is hurting people every time he hits them. On overall glance at the fight shows that Silva didn't hit Maia all that much, but every blow did damage. His leg kicks sent Maia spinning. his punches swole up his face. His knee broke his nose. Joe Rogan mentioned Maia flinching from body blows by the third round.

        Every time Silva was hit, he made sure he got those points back, which shows that if you attack Silva and win an exchange, he will initiate afterwards. Thing is, by the third round these dudes are too scared to do that. In the last two rounds, Maia mounted offense for a total of about fifteen seconds.

        Why aren't people talking about that part of it?
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        • The Chef
          Moderator
          • Sep 2003
          • 13684

          #349
          Re: UFC 112 1PM SPOILERS THREAD

          Originally posted by ex carrabba fan
          What's so bad about choosing to be a counter puncher? Until someone beats him why should he change?

          It's no excuse. Why are we forgetting about previous fights outside of UFC where Silva didn't need to counter punch to finish? He won the fight, and not only that, he dominated. Who says there's only one way to win?

          I never said Maia ran away from anyone. He just couldn't do anything. No takedowns, no stirkes, nothing. He was outclassed. What Silva did was not against the rules.

          I hope Silva shuts Sonnen's *** up and then who knows what's up with Vitor. Both of those fights have no excuse to be like last night's. After Sonnen is talking all this ****, he had better do something like attempt takedowns.. Vitor will stand and exchange with Silva.

          Maia got f'd up, enough said.
          Nobody is forgetting, if anything its supporting their argument. Anderson used to be the aggressor, the guy who brought the fight to his opponent but then he won the belt and ever since he won it hes been more then willing to stand back and fight from the outside if his opponent wont engage. To say that Maia should have thrown more punches and to use that against him is absurd, Maia isnt a striker in the least. Maia throws punches merely to get the takedown, he tried that and it didnt work. I still think the heat and humidity really killed any and all hopes of a takedown as well but apparently Im alone in this thought since nobody seems to agree. Anderson brought the fight to Franklin, Leben and Griffin but whenever his title has been on the line lately and its not against a striker who initiates the action he does just enough to skate by.
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          • ex carrabba fan
            I'll thank him for you
            • Oct 2004
            • 32744

            #350
            Re: UFC 112 1PM SPOILERS THREAD

            Since he arrived to the UFC he has scaled down his attack quite a bit.

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            • ex carrabba fan
              I'll thank him for you
              • Oct 2004
              • 32744

              #351
              Re: UFC 112 1PM SPOILERS THREAD

              Originally posted by The Chef
              Nobody is forgetting, if anything its supporting their argument. Anderson used to be the aggressor, the guy who brought the fight to his opponent but then he won the belt and ever since he won it hes been more then willing to stand back and fight from the outside if his opponent wont engage. To say that Maia should have thrown more punches and to use that against him is absurd, Maia isnt a striker in the least. Maia throws punches merely to get the takedown, he tried that and it didnt work. I still think the heat and humidity really killed any and all hopes of a takedown as well but apparently Im alone in this thought since nobody seems to agree. Anderson brought the fight to Franklin, Leben and Griffin but whenever his title has been on the line lately and its not against a striker who initiates the action he does just enough to skate by.
              I never said Maia should have thrown more punches. He should have implemented whatever gameplan they came in with. Maia said coming in he need Anderson's neck or arm. Well he never really tried for either, never struck Silva never did jack ish yet Silva is getting all of this BS.

              Because for 4 rounds, he did little to nothing except get his nose battered and face bloodied.

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              • The Chef
                Moderator
                • Sep 2003
                • 13684

                #352
                Re: UFC 112 1PM SPOILERS THREAD

                Originally posted by Bornindamecca
                Neither Ex nor myself are saying we don't understand why people are frustrated by the fact that he chose option 2. Thing is, there is a way to stop a guy from taking that option. Go. at. him.

                No one in the UFC has his opponents as terrified as Silva does. When people fight him, they think that a mistake will lead to painful embarrassment. A rarely mentioned fact is that Silva is hurting people every time he hits them. On overall glance at the fight shows that Silva didn't hit Maia all that much, but every blow did damage. His leg kicks sent Maia spinning. his punches swole up his face. His knee broke his nose. Joe Rogan mentioned Maia flinching from body blows by the third round.

                Every time Silva was hit, he made sure he got those points back, which shows that if you attack Silva and win an exchange, he will initiate afterwards. Thing is, by the third round these dudes are too scared to do that. In the last two rounds, Maia mounted offense for a total of about fifteen seconds.

                Why aren't people talking about that part of it?
                First off Im so sick and tired of hearing this bull**** about guys being scared to fight him. People are no more scared to fight him then they are other guys in the past like Chuck or Fedor, its a ridiculous claim and nobody can remotely back it up anyways so I dont see why it keeps getting mentioned.

                Secondly, a grappler does not storm in and start throwing strikes. Its clear as day some people are hell bent on making excuses because the moment you start claiming that a guy should fight a stupid fight, a fight that isnt to his strengths in the least, and charge in just so Silva will actually do something is the moment I draw the line.

                Again, and it was mentioned before by someone else, a champion will face fighters from every background but the difference is when a guy like GSP fights them he takes the fight to them and puts them where he wants them and dominates the fight but when Anderson fights anyone who wont initiate contact, he does the bare minimum to get by and nothing more.
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                • Bornindamecca
                  Books Nelson Simnation
                  • Jul 2007
                  • 10919

                  #353
                  Re: UFC 112 1PM SPOILERS THREAD

                  Originally posted by ex carrabba fan
                  I never said Maia should have thrown more punches. He should have implemented whatever gameplan they came in with. Maia said coming in he need Anderson's neck or arm. Well he never really tried for either, never struck Silva never did jack ish yet Silva is getting all of this BS.

                  Because for 4 rounds, he did little to nothing except get his nose battered and face bloodied.
                  I'm also not saying he should have thrown more punches or kicks, but like you said, he did nothing. This is a fight that never went to the ground, or the cage, so it was all failed takedowns and strikes. Looking at that, Silva did all of the striking, which leaves us with Maia literally doing nothing outside of a five second flurry in the fifth round, which he quickly abandoned.

                  The point is not that Maia didn't punch or kick enough. Point is, he did nothing. Silva beat him up, got bored with chasing him around, and chilled out until victory. And on the OTHER side of this, Maia got beat up, and did nothing. I don't see how people are mad at Silva for his part, but are giving Maia a pass when he was the least aggressive fighter in the match.
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                  • The Chef
                    Moderator
                    • Sep 2003
                    • 13684

                    #354
                    Re: UFC 112 1PM SPOILERS THREAD

                    Originally posted by ex carrabba fan
                    I never said Maia should have thrown more punches. He should have implemented whatever gameplan they came in with. Maia said coming in he need Anderson's neck or arm. Well he never really tried for either, never struck Silva never did jack ish yet Silva is getting all of this BS.

                    Because for 4 rounds, he did little to nothing except get his nose battered and face bloodied.
                    I hate to be so blunt but thats completely wrong. Maia is a grappler, hes not a striker, hes looking for an opening to take Silva down. For the first 2 rounds Silva danced, made ridiculous gestures and talked garbage while doing it as if he was trying to coax Maia into losing his cool and storming in so Silva could knock him out. It probably caught Maia a little off gaurd and he wasnt sure how to respond. He tried for some takedowns here and there but couldnt get a firm hold on Silva. Once Silva realized that Maia wasnt going to be baited into attacking him on the feet he basically decided to make a mockery of the fight and dance around for 2-3 rounds. Maia finally decides to go for broke in the 5th round and actually does some damage to Silva, and what did Silva do in response? Notta damn thing except continue to dance away while doing nothing. The entire time the guy is trying to bait Maia into a standup war and when he finally gets what he wants in the 5th round, he does nothing anyways, its like he had mentally checked out of the fight by then and just wanted the thing to end.

                    EDIT- On that note Im done. You and born are hell bent on sticking up for a guy who is getting torn to shreds by more then just the people here. IMO, if Dana has a problem with it to the point that he walked out of the fight in the 4th round and then ended the post fight press conference early because he was tired of hearing the bs excuses by Silva there as well then I dont see how anyone can somehow make a case for Silva. Being the aggressor and using punch stats to support your argument is bogus, Maia isnt a striker and never has said he was so its ridiculous to think that he would somehow change his game up just to help Anderson look good. The onus falls on Silva here as hes the one considered P4P the best in the world by many, not Maia, IMO it comes with the territory so Silva needs to deal with it.
                    Last edited by The Chef; 04-11-2010, 04:16 PM.
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                    • ex carrabba fan
                      I'll thank him for you
                      • Oct 2004
                      • 32744

                      #355
                      Re: UFC 112 1PM SPOILERS THREAD

                      Originally posted by The Chef
                      I hate to be so blunt but thats completely wrong. Maia is a grappler, hes not a striker, hes looking for an opening to take Silva down. For the first 2 rounds Silva danced, made ridiculous gestures and talked garbage while doing it as if he was trying to coax Maia into losing his cool and storming in so Silva could knock him out. It probably caught Maia a little off gaurd and he wasnt sure how to respond. He tried for some takedowns here and there but couldnt get a firm hold on Silva. Once Silva realized that Maia wasnt going to be baited into attacking him on the feet he basically decided to make a mockery of the fight and dance around for 2-3 rounds. Maia finally decides to go for broke in the 5th round and actually does some damage to Silva, and what did Silva do in response? Notta damn thing except continue to dance away while doing nothing. The entire time the guy is trying to bait Maia into a standup war and when he finally gets what he wants in the 5th round, he does nothing anyways, its like he had mentally checked out of the fight by then and just wanted the thing to end.
                      Exactly. The message Maia was sending before the fight was that he was going to break his arm or take his neck.

                      He didn't try to do either of those things, if you think he did then we're never going to advance this conversation.

                      You think the only reason Maia couldn't grapple with Silva is because Silva danced around? Wow

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                      • Bornindamecca
                        Books Nelson Simnation
                        • Jul 2007
                        • 10919

                        #356
                        Re: UFC 112 1PM SPOILERS THREAD

                        Originally posted by The Chef
                        First off Im so sick and tired of hearing this bull**** about guys being scared to fight him. People are no more scared to fight him then they are other guys in the past like Chuck or Fedor, its a ridiculous claim and nobody can remotely back it up anyways so I dont see why it keeps getting mentioned.
                        If you look at the fights, you can see the difference. It's very easy to spot. People tried to trade with Chuck, or consistently took risks against him. They aren't willing to do that against Silva because of the precision against his punches. But here is a guide for the Scared Fighter.

                        1.Gameplan A doesn't work--no effect or damage taken
                        2.Gameplan B doesn't work--no effect or more damage taken
                        3.Damage taken either from counter or aggressive action
                        4.Fear, abandonment of gameplan, taunting to incite foolish attack, desperate token effort

                        Originally posted by The Chef

                        Secondly, a grappler does not storm in and start throwing strikes. Its clear as day some people are hell bent on making excuses because the moment you start claiming that a guy should fight a stupid fight, a fight that isnt to his strengths in the least, and charge in just so Silva will actually do something is the moment I draw the line.
                        Maia didn't do any grappling either. He didn't do anything. Silva took no damage and his back never saw the mat or the cage. He is getting a surprising amount of props for two handfuls of horrible takedown attempts over the course of five rounds.

                        Originally posted by The Chef

                        Again, and it was mentioned before by someone else, a champion will face fighters from every background but the difference is when a guy like GSP fights them he takes the fight to them and puts them where he wants them and dominates the fight but when Anderson fights anyone who wont initiate contact, he does the bare minimum to get by and nothing more.
                        You ask Maia's doctors if Silva did the bare minimum.
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                        • Phillmattic
                          MVP
                          • May 2003
                          • 1071

                          #357
                          Re: UFC 112 1PM SPOILERS THREAD

                          Originally posted by The Chef
                          I hate to be so blunt but thats completely wrong. Maia is a grappler, hes not a striker, hes looking for an opening to take Silva down. For the first 2 rounds Silva danced, made ridiculous gestures and talked garbage while doing it as if he was trying to coax Maia into losing his cool and storming in so Silva could knock him out. It probably caught Maia a little off gaurd and he wasnt sure how to respond. He tried for some takedowns here and there but couldnt get a firm hold on Silva. Once Silva realized that Maia wasnt going to be baited into attacking him on the feet he basically decided to make a mockery of the fight and dance around for 2-3 rounds. Maia finally decides to go for broke in the 5th round and actually does some damage to Silva, and what did Silva do in response? Notta damn thing except continue to dance away while doing nothing. The entire time the guy is trying to bait Maia into a standup war and when he finally gets what he wants in the 5th round, he does nothing anyways, its like he had mentally checked out of the fight by then and just wanted the thing to end.
                          You're making it seem as if Silva wasn't hitting Maia in the first couple of rounds while dancing around. He broke his nose with a flying knee. That knee in its self was a risk because he missed a flying knee against Lutter, the fight went to the ground and he got mounted. He threw over 20 strikes in both rounds, and landed about 15 in each.

                          How can you defend Maia, the challenger, for not taking any risks and bash Silva?

                          You can't be that one dimensional and expect to get the fight to the ground. You at least need to be a threat enough to get in to range to shoot successfully. Maia couldn't even do that.
                          .::..::::::::.:.:.:.:....:::.:.::::..:.:::....:::: ...:..::.
                          "When you're an assassin, you don't have a conscience"-Gilbert Arenas

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                          • The Chef
                            Moderator
                            • Sep 2003
                            • 13684

                            #358
                            Re: UFC 112 1PM SPOILERS THREAD

                            Originally posted by ex carrabba fan
                            Exactly. The message Maia was sending before the fight was that he was going to break his arm or take his neck.

                            He didn't try to do either of those things, if you think he did then we're never going to advance this conversation.

                            You think the only reason Maia couldn't grapple with Silva is because Silva danced around? Wow
                            LOL, I said I was done but here I am having to defend what I said. First off its hard to grapple with a guy who is dancing around in circles the majority of the fight. Secondly, yet again since everybody is blind apparently, the HEAT and HUMIDITY caused the fighters to sweat before even getting into the cage and its extremely difficult to take down your opponent let alone hold him there when both guys are slippery from the sweat. I absolutely pray Silva just gets clean knocked out in his next fight because this garbage is getting old fast. IMO Anderson is easily #3 in the P4P rankings now behind GSP and Fedor and while it was close before, its not even close now after yesterday.

                            EDIT- Ok, now Im officially done. "Ask Maia's doctor if he did the bare minimum?" Good Lord the **** in here is getting thick. Did you just start watching MMA yesterday? There have been many times where the winner looks like the loser and the loser looks like the winner in terms of damage so what the hell does asking a doctor have to do with anything?

                            I never said Anderson didnt do any damage in the first 2 rounds, my issue is when his boasting and coaxing didnt work he basically threw in the towel and circled around the cage for 2+ rounds.

                            Its fine, somehow apparently its alright for Silva to avoid doing a damn thing for 2+ rounds since his opponent didnt attack him. All I know is the next time Silva is a headliner on a PPV it better be against a striker or else I wont even entertain the thought of buying it as hes become a terrible PPV draw for me personally.

                            By the way born, in the 5th round Maia did have Silva up against the cage but by then it was way too late to get anything done thanks to being tired and both fighters being slippery, but he did have him against the cage, contrary to what you said.
                            Last edited by The Chef; 04-11-2010, 04:27 PM.
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                            • ex carrabba fan
                              I'll thank him for you
                              • Oct 2004
                              • 32744

                              #359
                              Re: UFC 112 1PM SPOILERS THREAD

                              How the hell does Fedor go ahead of Spider?

                              GSP, debatable but OK.

                              If anything Spider should still be top 2

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                              • ex carrabba fan
                                I'll thank him for you
                                • Oct 2004
                                • 32744

                                #360
                                Re: UFC 112 1PM SPOILERS THREAD

                                "There have been many times where the winner looks like the loser and the loser looks like the winner in terms of damage so what the hell does asking a doctor have to do with anything?"

                                There was never any point of that fight where Maia threatened Silva. Same can't be said the other way around so why don't you just calm down man.

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