AEW Off-Topic

[cima]

Re: AEW Off-Topic

Tony is not wrong. I get that when they bring in guys from the Independent scene that they have to teach them the WWE style, that is something we all understand. That is what NXT is for, but at the same time the best matches are the ones where you have two different styles going against each other. It's why Lesnar has his best matches with smaller guys like a Bryan, Styles or even Punk at Summerslam 2013. If Hunter doesn't bury Nick Khan with his golden shovel, AEW is going to compete with WWE much sooner rather than later.

All the reports indicate HHH is the one being buried here for failing to defeat AEW. Sounds like Khan has more power than he does.

[dubcity]

Re: AEW Off-Topic

Yet, Orton, Lesnar, Cena, Batista, Reigns, Belair, Flair, etc, etc. all learned under that "paint by numbers style" which truthfully is a lot safer (if not more "boring") then the lauded "indy style."


Official HQ of Bills Backer/Spurs Nation

Orton, Cena, Lesnar and Batista all came in when chairshots to the head were still allowed, so you can't put them in with the others. Cena, Batista and Orton came up when Cornette was still running OVW, so it's not the homogenized style we are seeing now. And Reigns is only over because they finally gave in and did the opposite of what they thought was right.

[J_Posse]

Re: AEW Off-Topic

Orton, Cena, Lesnar and Batista all came in when chairshots to the head were still allowed, so you can't put them in with the others. Cena, Batista and Orton came up when Cornette was still running OVW, so it's not the homogenized style we are seeing now. And Reigns is only over because they finally gave in and did the opposite of what they thought was right.

What does "chair shots to the head" have to do with anything? They've cultivated high level talent with minimal prior experience was my point, so yes, all those guys "count."

****, Kurt Angle could be lumped into that group and the Rock too.

The problem isn't working a "safer, paint - by - numbers" style (as the "booker of the year" states) but having good creative and talent that can execute it.

That is what they need to find (aka the total package) and I've been saying that for years. Of course, that was prior to Reigns finding himself and his "voice" to become a top - level all around talent.

And I moved my thoughts over to the appropriate thread to not derail the AEW one with WWE talk.

Official HQ of Bills Backer/Spurs Nation

[cima]

Re: AEW Off-Topic

Obviously WWE has some success stories, is Reigns the most recent? And their successes seem more miss than hit. If we're bringing up Cena, Batista, Orton, and Lesnar...not only was that rare because it was just a stacked class, those guys were all developed 20+ years ago. If you look at the marquee matchups from last night's Summerslam (Lashley/Goldberg, Reigns/Cena, Edge/Rollins), 3 of those guys have been around for 20+ years. Is that really going to be a sustainable business model?

[J_Posse]

Re: AEW Off-Topic

Obviously WWE has some success stories, is Reigns the most recent? And their successes seem more miss than hit. If we're bringing up Cena, Batista, Orton, and Lesnar...not only was that rare because it was just a stacked class, those guys were all developed 20+ years ago. If you look at the marquee matchups from last night's Summerslam (Lashley/Goldberg, Reigns/Cena, Edge/Rollins), 3 of those guys have been around for 20+ years. Is that really going to be a sustainable business model?

All companies in wrestling are going to have hit - or - misses, man.

They've had more recent successes but I'm not going to go and search everyone's early career to verify.

They'll be fine because the business has peaks - and - valleys constantly and "the competition" (whether WWE admits it or not) will eventually force their hand to adjust.

Can't I say with just as much conviction that picking WWE's "scraps" isn't a sustainable business model too? Or having 3 (bloody) deathmatches in a one month period isn't sustainable for a mainstream audience?

See the thing is I want both companies to do better and wrestling to get to a healthier, more beneficial (especially for the talent that always gets screwed) place for everyone involved.

I didn't pick side in the 90's, so I definitely won't do so now. Especially when both companies do dumb **** and have illogical booking (yes, AEW has predictable, illogical booking too).

Anyway, I'm not trying to get pissy and derail this thread just trying to give some levity to this often brought up (and overused) argument.

And no one has to agree either which is completely fine.

Official HQ of Bills Backer/Spurs Nation

[cima]

Re: AEW Off-Topic

I just don't think anyone that became a big star recently other than Reigns started in WWE's system (NXT/FCW/PC Center) and if they're really wanting to only develop talent with no prior experience...I just say good luck.


Obviously true wrestling fans like I imagine most of us on here are want all companies to succeed. It just seems WWE is really doubling-down on WWE being sports entertainment and not professional wrestling, especially with the decision to revamp NXT's identity. And I know most of us haven't cared for WWE in a long time like we used to...I know forums are dying but even on here it's down to a couple handful of posters left. Hell we got one monthly thread for both of WWE's shows. If they really just want to focus and capture that casual audience then that's what they will do and it will just continue to alienate us smarkier fans.


I'm just thankful AEW exists and has become a viable alternative. And I hope they continue to grow and force WWE's hand to not continue to put out trash. Time will tell...

[J_Posse]

Re: AEW Off-Topic

I just don't think anyone that became a big star recently other than Reigns started in WWE's system (NXT/FCW/PC Center) and if they're really wanting to only develop talent with no prior experience...I just say good luck.


Obviously true wrestling fans like I imagine most of us on here are want all companies to succeed. It just seems WWE is really doubling-down on WWE being sports entertainment and not professional wrestling, especially with the decision to revamp NXT's identity. And I know most of us haven't cared for WWE in a long time like we used to...I know forums are dying but even on here it's down to a couple handful of posters left. Hell we got one monthly thread for both of WWE's shows. If they really just want to focus and capture that casual audience then that's what they will do and it will just continue to alienate us smarkier fans.


I'm just thankful AEW exists and has become a viable alternative. And I hope they continue to grow and force WWE's hand to not continue to put out trash. Time will tell...

That is completely false, period. Charlotte, Bianca, Montez Ford, Otis, Big E etc. all started with little to no prior experience.

Not sure why you want to continue to belabor the point and everyone that they sign with no/little experience isn't going to become a megastar. That is just unrealistic and an unreasonable expectation.

We don't know what will happen in the future with either company and doing more of the "sports entertainment" (which is still wrestling with a glossier finish) is always their fall back plan.

Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't, but a lot of the stars of AEW (& to a certain extent the owner) have benefitted from that apparently horrendous word/style.

PS: AEW has done a ton of "sports entrainmentity" things in their two year existence, plus they've gone further and further away from the "sports based" wrestling to something close to a WWE presentation. But I'll let you and all the other disgruntled, ex - WWE fans tell it different....

And I'm really, really gonna stop and leave all this alone since I commented about the obvious"tribalism" (with both audiences) months ago.

Official HQ of Bills Backer/Spurs Nation

[cima]

Re: AEW Off-Topic

Otis? Lol


I'm not saying everyone will be. I said they've had more misses than hits and very few hits.


Either way, I hope their strategy works out for them.

[J_Posse]

Re: AEW Off-Topic

Otis? Lol


I'm not saying everyone will be. I said they've had more misses than hits and very few hits.


Either way, I hope their strategy works out for them.

Otis is being built into a monster heel character and has done a complete reversal from all the comedy stuff.

I doubt he'll reach the main event scene, but a upper mid - carder is a great place for a "WWE guy" with little prior experience.

Sucks for Tucker, but going to Smackdown and being paired with Chad Gable has done wonders for him.

We'll see and I doubt the "new strategy" means they'll ignore indy talent completely (especially if they feel they can "move the needle").

Eventually, AEW will need to not rely on talent built up elsewhere (NJPW or WWE) and get their own "homegrown" talent to the top of the card. Basically, both/all companies need to use the "new strategy" in some form or fashion.

Official HQ of Bills Backer/Spurs Nation

[ubernoob]

Re: AEW Off-Topic

He needs to stop playing the "we want it to be like professional sports where they go from high school to college to the pros" card and treating us like *******es.

No, you're trying to be an NFL team drafting college basketball players hoping it'll work. We had the high school -> college -> pro pipeline. It led to a boom in NXT.

If you were in the territories, you stayed in your territory until you were a name. That's when you did your touring. Spots were new because you only saw one type of wrestling, so people like Andre going somewhere was a much bigger deal.

Post territories, you did your jobber work in WWF/WCW then you tried to switch companies (or at least play them off each other) to get a better deal. If you were a lower card guy, you'd go to Mexico or Japan or the indies to try to incorporate a new style and psychology from elsewhere in your matches in hopes of getting better when you returned.

Since about the early aughts, you did indies then hoped to get signed to OVW/Deep South/FCW/later NXT then move up in the machine.

There's literally been the "High School -> College -> Pro" thing he's been talking about for ages. There has been. If WWE wants to find and hire the best wrestlers, they sure as **** aren't going to find them in not wrestling. It's 2021, professional wrestling and WWE especially isn't some indy underground thing that's hard to find. The people that have an interest in wrestling know how to find them.

It's corporate bull**** speak is what it is and I can't believe people are accepting it at face value. AEW isn't going to struggle with it because despite being WWE-lite production wise... they let people be themselves in the ring.

Imagine Orange Cassidy in WWE. I'm not even a huge fan of him, but just imagine him there and how bad it would be. AEW lets wrestlers breathe and make mistakes. Dark and Elevation are filled with wrestlers that aren't signed to contracts. WWE did the same damn thing during their best business period and after it. Plenty of matches with like a young Bryan Danielson on Velocity or some ****. There is zero issue with a wrestling business running like a wrestling business.

[Mercury112491]

AEW Off-Topic

Otis? Lol


I'm not saying everyone will be. I said they've had more misses than hits and very few hits.


Either way, I hope their strategy works out for them.

Lol more misses than hits is how that’s supposed to work though. You really think if they scout 10 guys all 10 are supposed to turn into main eventers? No you pray that you get maybe one long term main event talent outta that. Wrestling isn’t much different than pro sports. How many super stars come out of each sports draft every year?


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[TarHeelPhenom]

Re: AEW Off-Topic

How long will it be before Hulk Hogan and the NWO come to AEW with full creative control contracts??

[dubcity]

Re: AEW Off-Topic

Eddie Kingston doing commentary with Schiavone and Show on Dark Elevation is highly entertaining. Good wrestling commentary still exists, I swear.

Edit:
EK: ohh, hits her with the Ace Crusher
Schiavone: it's the ICE Crusher
EK: are you kidding me, are we gonna come with different names for everything, it's the Ace Crusher
Schiavone: the Ace Crusher?
EK: yeah from Johnny Ace
Schiavone: oh please stop

[BDKiiing]

Re: AEW Off-Topic

Eventually, AEW will need to not rely on talent built up elsewhere (NJPW or WWE) and get their own "homegrown" talent to the top of the card.

You could make the argument Britt, MJF, Darby, Sammy, Jungle Boy, and Cassidy are all homegrown workers. Sure they had some indie experience but they brought them more into the spotlight. Hangman obviously had ROH and NJPW experience, but they made him a star. The Acclaimed, Angels, Vance, Hobbs, Wardlow, Ogogo, Dante and Darius Martin, Garrison, Sabian, Anna Jay, Abadon, Statlander, Hirsh, Velvet, Penelope, Nyla, Jade. Every single one of those got their biggest shine in AEW. Most of them were barely known before AEW. While they might not be like the Cena, Orton, Lesnar, Batista OVW class, they're all certainly homegrown to a great extent.

[Majingir]

Re: AEW Off-Topic

The whole "homegrown talent" stuff I find pointless.

Clearly most talent will have made their name elsewhere or at the very least gotten experience before coming to AEW. The whole point is to get the best talent they can for the shows. You're not getting ex WWE/ROH/Impact talent showing up on some random indy show in a HS gym for a living.

Let's not forget, AEW is the equivalent of an expansion franchise. That's how you build a roster.