The Game Outside of the Game - Issues and How to Fix Them

[Tuscaloosa]

Re: The Game Outside of the Game - Issues and How to Fix Them

That’s interesting. I know you’ve done far more experimenting so I’ll have to believe you on this. I only did two seasons without fatigue and got no injuries, save for a “rest of game” concussion here or there. To be fair, it wasn’t much different with fatigue on until I did the injury rating changes, so that’s probably more of the cause than anything.


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On the FOff/injury conversation - just had my SR QB (1st start) go down for the season in the 3rd qtr of the first game of the season, with FOff... Broken shoulder... devastating blow to my season.

[canes21]

Re: The Game Outside of the Game - Issues and How to Fix Them

Is there a consensus on whether or not doing the trick where you run the first play of each half with fatigue off results in the same CPU behavior as running it off all game?

[Tuscaloosa]

Re: The Game Outside of the Game - Issues and How to Fix Them

Is there a consensus on whether or not doing the trick where you run the first play of each half with fatigue off results in the same CPU behavior as running it off all game?

I honestly never even tried because I never really saw any benefit in having fatigue on at all. Auto subs never felt right to me; never felt realistic or like they worked properly. I think Bullet said he liked it. I haven't seen Young, the guy who came up with it, in a while. Not sure about anyone else.

[MvPeterson2828]

Re: The Game Outside of the Game - Issues and How to Fix Them

Just getting back into NCAA finally after a year off when my Xbox died. Man this game is great with fatigue off. Using Matt10 sliders with fatigue off and wow it is great challenge throughout the whole game. Started up a Kent State dynasty and got beat silly first four games. Finally won a close game against Western Michigan 24-21.


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[SilverBullet19]

Re: The Game Outside of the Game - Issues and How to Fix Them

Is there a consensus on whether or not doing the trick where you run the first play of each half with fatigue off results in the same CPU behavior as running it off all game?

I honestly never even tried because I never really saw any benefit in having fatigue on at all. Auto subs never felt right to me; never felt realistic or like they worked properly. I think Bullet said he liked it. I haven't seen Young, the guy who came up with it, in a while. Not sure about anyone else.

I personally go back and forth on it. Sometimes I swear it makes a difference, and sometimes I think its placebo. Sometimes I think it's just the game doing it's thing between "hey, have this win, you deserve it" or "time to man up and fight to the end there, user!"

I personally like the auto subs at receiver, but the rest are kinda crappy (fullbacks/tight ends coming in on the O-Line, for example). I also often forget to turn it off and back on.

I think for my next season I'm just going to go back to off. I'm in the offseason and really diving deeper into my formation subs anyway.

[xToXiCxSAVAGEx]

Re: The Game Outside of the Game - Issues and How to Fix Them

I personally go back and forth on it. Sometimes I swear it makes a difference, and sometimes I think its placebo. Sometimes I think it's just the game doing it's thing between "hey, have this win, you deserve it" or "time to man up and fight to the end there, user!"

I personally like the auto subs at receiver, but the rest are kinda crappy (fullbacks/tight ends coming in on the O-Line, for example). I also often forget to turn it off and back on.

I think for my next season I'm just going to go back to off. I'm in the offseason and really diving deeper into my formation subs anyway.

I’ve done it a couple of times in games that I felt I was seizing momentum and each time I lost in the end. It didn’t feel like fatigue was off but it did feel like they were playing better.

[muchacho]

Re: The Game Outside of the Game - Issues and How to Fix Them

After going back to default heisman settings, I went 0-12 in my first year! I don’t remember losing more than 4-5 in any season before. Either next gen madden gave me false belief that I was good, or I just have been away from this gem for far too long.

Either way, I’m really excited to try and bring Idaho to contender status. Might take a lot longer than I expected. Hopefully I don’t get fired. Never had that happen either. Thanks Tuscaloosa for the idea of going back.

Also, the fatigue off the entire game was definitely a smarter choice. The CPU is so much tougher.


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[Tuscaloosa]

Re: The Game Outside of the Game - Issues and How to Fix Them

After going back to default heisman settings, I went 0-12 in my first year! I don’t remember losing more than 4-5 in any season before. Either next gen madden gave me false belief that I was good, or I just have been away from this gem for far too long.

Either way, I’m really excited to try and bring Idaho to contender status. Might take a lot longer than I expected. Hopefully I don’t get fired. Never had that happen either. Thanks Tuscaloosa for the idea of going back.

Also, the fatigue off the entire game was definitely a smarter choice. The CPU is so much tougher.


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No problem, but all the credit should go to Jbrew. He discovered the effects of fatigue off & advised using default settings. I'm just happy to spread the good word.

[SilverBullet19]

Re: The Game Outside of the Game - Issues and How to Fix Them

Personally I still need sliders with fatigue off. JKits have by far been my favorite. I never used to mess with sliders but now that I have, it’s a whole new game.

What I like most about his set is that it actually results in penalties. I usually get 3-5 per game, and so does the CPU. Sometimes more just like real life. They’re not all false start or offsides either.


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[Tuscaloosa]

Re: The Game Outside of the Game - Issues and How to Fix Them

Personally I still need sliders with fatigue off. JKits have by far been my favorite. I never used to mess with sliders but now that I have, it’s a whole new game.

What I like most about his set is that it actually results in penalties. I usually get 3-5 per game, and so does the CPU. Sometimes more just like real life. They’re not all false start or offsides either.


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I quit trying to replicate real life football, because I realized it was impossible. Instead, I started focusing on how to get the most out of the world of football that this game has to offer. My main objective was always to get the team and player ratings to really shine through; for the ratings to really matter. I've realized the cost of this is things like little to no penalties, few errant throws from QBs, and no auto subs because of the fatigue devil.

I now see it as an overall compromise: finding sliders that most represent real life football in your eyes and dealing with the seemingly random crapshoot effect on team and player ratings, chalking it up to "well QB Joe Schmoe just had a bad night..." /or/ accepting the flaws in this world's version of football in exchange for (IMO) the most accurate representation of team and player ratings. It really just depends on which you prefer. I really wish the two could coexist, but I, personally, haven't found a way yet.

People seem to really like Kits' set and the community set, and I've used both at different points and enjoyed them, but with all due respect to the men behind the sets, to second something JoshC (I believe) said - I want to feel like I'm playing the other team, and not the sliders. Ultimately, with slider adjustments, I'm always left feeling that way after a while, like I'm playing against the sliders instead of the other team.

[SilverBullet19]

Re: The Game Outside of the Game - Issues and How to Fix Them

I quit trying to replicate real life football, because I realized it was impossible. Instead, I started focusing on how to get the most out of the world of football that this game has to offer. My main objective was always to get the team and player ratings to really shine through; for the ratings to really matter. I've realized the cost of this is things like little to no penalties, few errant throws from QBs, and no auto subs because of the fatigue devil.

I now see it as an overall compromise: finding sliders that most represent real life football in your eyes and dealing with the seemingly random crapshoot effect on team and player ratings, chalking it up to "well QB Joe Schmoe just had a bad night..." /or/ accepting the flaws in this world's version of football in exchange for (IMO) the most accurate representation of team and player ratings. It really just depends on which you prefer. I really wish the two could coexist, but I, personally, haven't found a way yet.

People seem to really like Kits' set and the community set, and I've used both at different points and enjoyed them, but with all due respect to the men behind the sets, to second something JoshC (I believe) said - I want to feel like I'm playing the other team, and not the sliders. Ultimately, with slider adjustments, I'm always left feeling that way after a while, like I'm playing against the sliders instead of the other team.

That's an interesting take, the idea of playing against the sliders are not the team.

For me, it's a balancing act. I want realism, but also want a challenge. I enjoyed Matt10's slider set, but was able to still go undefeated with little difficulty. I have found that JKit's are the set to make the game tough on me, while still feeling like it is a believable Saturday experience. The penalties are essentially icing on the cake.

[muchacho]

Re: The Game Outside of the Game - Issues and How to Fix Them

JKits were the sliders I was last using as well. The one penalty that I was always getting was clipping. I felt like no matter what, if the lineman brushed someone, it would be called.

As far as Tuscaloosa said, that is exactly how I felt but couldn’t find the words to describe it about playing the sliders and not the team.

I do agree also that trying to replicate “real” football is just something that cannot be done. I have tried ratings adjustments, but not having access to the editor, it makes it tedious. Also not being able to edit the FCS teams makes it pointless. Ratings edits work for madden tho bc you can control every team and no teams are untouchable.

Any way, as long as we can all still enjoy a 5 year old game, something has to have gone right.


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[Tuscaloosa]

Re: The Game Outside of the Game - Issues and How to Fix Them

That's an interesting take, the idea of playing against the sliders are not the team.

For me, it's a balancing act. I want realism, but also want a challenge. I enjoyed Matt10's slider set, but was able to still go undefeated with little difficulty. I have found that JKit's are the set to make the game tough on me, while still feeling like it is a believable Saturday experience. The penalties are essentially icing on the cake.

I know just how you feel with that balancing act. I used Matt's set forever because it always looked the most like real football, but as you said, the trouble was always obtaining the realistic results. Ultimately, for me, the realistic results ended up trumping the realistic look/feel. I guess I felt like the look/feel of this football world that EA provided us (at default) and the look/feel of our real life game was a lot closer to each other than the slider produced results/outcomes in this game and the results/outcomes that occur in our real life game were.

Any way, as long as we can all still enjoy a 5 year old game, something has to have gone right.


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That's my favorite thing about all this. I think that there's a beauty to be seen in the game getting cancelled. I can't think of another sports title that has had this much extra attention showed to it from the users, for such an extended amount of time. I often wonder what other secrets might lie within sports games of past years that just never got exposed because there was, of course, a new edition the next year.

The main thing I love is that this is seemingly one of the few places in the world, and especially the internet, where people can have actual discussions - not arguments - but, discussions about a topic, with sometimes opposing viewpoints, and doing it not to "be right" or to "win" or for underlying agendas or selfish reasons. Nope, not for any of that. Just for the true, pure betterment of the game and the experience. These days, that's rare, fellas. The rainbow after the college football video game storm.

All right, rant/hippy dippy BS over. Back to bro time.

[AAustin1990]

Re: The Game Outside of the Game - Issues and How to Fix Them

I don’t lost here that often but I check in on this thread every few weeks bc I’m still playing NCAA when I get time and still love the game. I wanted to ask Tuscaloosa about something he mentioned a while back: playing on Heisman Default sliders?

I have played with Matt’s sliders and JKits sliders but I still have pretty high win rates. I even limit my playbook each week to one primary run concept and one primary pass concept (which I run out of many different formations, sort of a pro style with some spread offense). Then once I’ve used that pass concept I cannot use it again as my primary for the season. I even pick out a couple “shot plays” that week playing off those pass and run concepts and only take a few shots a game. Basically I do this to make the game even harder because some weeks you are using a weak pass concept and can’t use your best plays! Makes it fun, makes you save your plays for hard weeks and you can even scout the other team and see what you think will work that week. I feel like this is pretty fun and adds some realism to me.

Anyway, even with this on tough sliders I still am winning more that I’d like to (not that I’m that great, just had LOTS of practice haha). Anyway Tuscaloosa said that he played on default Heiman and had a really good experience? I believe he even said he got fired? I wanted to get some of his thoughts and if he is still doing this?

Thanks in advance man! And thanks for making this awesome thread which I’ve creeped around on for some time haha.

[Tuscaloosa]

Re: The Game Outside of the Game - Issues and How to Fix Them

I don’t lost here that often but I check in on this thread every few weeks bc I’m still playing NCAA when I get time and still love the game. I wanted to ask Tuscaloosa about something he mentioned a while back: playing on Heisman Default sliders?

I have played with Matt’s sliders and JKits sliders but I still have pretty high win rates. I even limit my playbook each week to one primary run concept and one primary pass concept (which I run out of many different formations, sort of a pro style with some spread offense). Then once I’ve used that pass concept I cannot use it again as my primary for the season. I even pick out a couple “shot plays” that week playing off those pass and run concepts and only take a few shots a game. Basically I do this to make the game even harder because some weeks you are using a weak pass concept and can’t use your best plays! Makes it fun, makes you save your plays for hard weeks and you can even scout the other team and see what you think will work that week. I feel like this is pretty fun and adds some realism to me.

Anyway, even with this on tough sliders I still am winning more that I’d like to (not that I’m that great, just had LOTS of practice haha). Anyway Tuscaloosa said that he played on default Heiman and had a really good experience? I believe he even said he got fired? I wanted to get some of his thoughts and if he is still doing this?

Thanks in advance man! And thanks for making this awesome thread which I’ve creeped around on for some time haha.

Sure thing. I've had a couple people ask about it, so I think I'll make a new thread centered around the fatigue off concept, allowing a place for all of us who go that route to talk about our sliders, settings, and experiences. That way we can keep this thread focused on new ideas that we have and helping each other with issues that we are having.

Edit: https://forums.operationsports.com/f...post2049634821