Is The New Aggressive Catch Overpowered? (Possible Tweak Coming In Tuning Update?)

[booker21]

Re: Is The New Aggressive Catch Overpowered? (Possible Tweak Coming In Tuning Update?

Actually, I'm experiencing coverage adjustments to Dez Bryant in the Cowboys game I'm playing right now. Not always, but it is happening.

And practice mode, which is tuned the same way as in game, is the best way to do it because you can control coverages.

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It's cool. I'm not picky I will take whatever. I don't have the game so I want to see how "bad" is it. To me if going deep is easier is a game killer. Worst than the sack issue from last year. Streak is a very common route to avoid.


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[JOS1181]

Re: Is The New Aggressive Catch Overpowered? (Possible Tweak Coming In Tuning Update?

It is to easy to complete down field throws.

Using completions + drops in the real world you get at best 50% of 20+ yard attempts are on target ( 30%-50% is the range usually ). In Madden that is close to 80% if not higher with actually completions being around 40%-50% and sometimes much higher depending on your WR.

Factor in that in the real world 20+ yard throws ( in air ) account for a small percentage of a QBs throws ( around 15% for the highest down to around 9% for the lowest ) whereas in Madden those type of throws happen far more often. I would say that number rises to at least 30% on average.

So combining those two together brings us to unrealistic gameplay and a feature that is a bit to powerful.

[jfsolo]

Re: Is The New Aggressive Catch Overpowered? (Possible Tweak Coming In Tuning Update?

No please. Knowing EA this will bring the sack fest we had last year.


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Tweak not extreme the other way... Lol
And from my experience on 15.. it was the user controlled DL getting too many sacks that was an issue.. Not the User AI players.
User controlled DL in 16 look fine IMO. The AI controlled players are a "tad" weak from the vids.

Either way... looking forward to grabbing the game now...

BUT I get what you're saying

The A.I. controlled User team DL definitely were getting too many sacks for me last year. The main issue was the CPU QB A.I. especially of course on screens, which they called a lot of, and with CPU QB's scrambling right into the Dlineman's grasp. The User controlled pressure was slightly OP last year IMO, but that CPU QB A.I. was the death knell.

[Skyboxer]

Re: Is The New Aggressive Catch Overpowered? (Possible Tweak Coming In Tuning Update?

I was in league with a user controlled Suh.. so maybe my memory is skewed lol

I guess in the end less pressure is better than too much but I hope it's tuned a bit.
I'll hold opinion I guess until I get hands on and start my usual long night of testing..

[Millennium]

Re: Is The New Aggressive Catch Overpowered? (Possible Tweak Coming In Tuning Update?

It's cool. I'm not picky I will take whatever. I don't have the game so I want to see how "bad" is it. To me if going deep is easier is a game killer. Worst than the sack issue from last year. Streak is a very common route to avoid.


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http://www.twitch.tv/osmillennium

Labbing this now with CJ and Revis/Cromartie

[ODogg]

Re: Is The New Aggressive Catch Overpowered? (Possible Tweak Coming In Tuning Update?

The best counter I have found (and have noticed used against me) to the aggressive catch is to play the WR. When you do an aggressive catch the WR goes up in the air and play the WR hits the WR and the pass is usually not caught. Of course if it's an elite WR like CJ or Dez then sometimes it's going to be but then that's realism I believe.

As for throwing it to CJ or Dez about 30 times a game, as someone said, in real life they don't do that as it'd likely get them hurt. However, in Madden when you play someone else it's usually a one-shot game and it doesn't matter if you do.

That is why the game will never be like the real NFL in that sense because in the real NFL the coaches have to coach for a long, multiple game season but if you're just playing a random person online or even a buddy in a local exhibition it's just one game and you will do whatever it takes to win that game because it's not part of a long season like in reality.

There is no way for EA to really fix that aspect of the game.

[booker21]

Is The New Aggressive Catch Overpowered? (Possible Tweak Coming In Tuning Upd...

http://www.twitch.tv/osmillennium



Labbing this now with CJ and Revis/Cromartie

Thanks man. Really appreciate your stream.

Calvin was 50% against revis one on one. I would like a little less but there were some overthrows that we didn't count and they will on real game so it seems it's ok. I need to play myself for real scenarios. Hopefully they will work ok as well.


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[zrohman]

Re: Is The New Aggressive Catch Overpowered? (Possible Tweak Coming In Tuning Update?

I played several games with the Vikings... All lower rated players had several drops with aggressive catch.. Almost every double or triple covered play was dropped.. Any success I have is in great position with great receivers. But it rarely works.

Heavily struggled with other good receivers.

I think arguments could be made it's underpowered.. Not overpowered.. With that said I think it's perfectly fine

[itsOTTOmatic]

Re: Is The New Aggressive Catch Overpowered? (Possible Tweak Coming In Tuning Update?

It's felt a little overpowered when I've used it with josh Gordon. But very small sample size


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[mixxx01]

Re: Is The New Aggressive Catch Overpowered? (Possible Tweak Coming In Tuning Update?

I feel that in 15 the deep pass was completed less than 20% of the time. Elite receivers did not make catches versus the worst corners. And most deep balls were often intercepted. That's not realistic at all.


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[Trick13]

Re: Is The New Aggressive Catch Overpowered? (Possible Tweak Coming In Tuning Update?

I feel like EA should have brought back double team plays in the defensive playbooks along with "air supremacy". The other thing they overlooked was not giving defenders a third option. Receivers have three catch types, DBs should have three options as well, play receiver, pick play ball, and swat play ball.


Not including them was a huge mistake in my opinion, particularly because of how well they did on the DB/WR interactions, and the new passing tweaks.


Having said that, tuning "aggressive catch" at this point would be a mistake of equally gargantuan proportions. They did include "quick defensive coverage adjustments" which mean you can more readily adjust to double teams, and I imagine "spotlighting" receivers as well - though I don't know for sure as I don't have the game yet.




I am a little annoyed with all the whining about AC being OP, learn to play defense, watch some more football, because I know from watching a bunch of games last year that Dez Bryant was routinely doubled, or "bracketed". I bring this up to say, if, in the actual NFL he is that big a pain to command double teams and coverage "rolling", then he darn sure should be that way in Madden. Same for Megatron and blah blah blah...


You should not be able to consistently stop those impact type receivers in 1 on 1 situations, except for with equally brilliant DBs. You should have to double team them, roll coverage at them, and just in general be aware of where they line up every play.

[booker21]

Re: Is The New Aggressive Catch Overpowered? (Possible Tweak Coming In Tuning Update?

I feel like EA should have brought back double team plays in the defensive playbooks along with "air supremacy". The other thing they overlooked was not giving defenders a third option. Receivers have three catch types, DBs should have three options as well, play receiver, pick play ball, and swat play ball.


Not including them was a huge mistake in my opinion, particularly because of how well they did on the DB/WR interactions, and the new passing tweaks.


Having said that, tuning "aggressive catch" at this point would be a mistake of equally gargantuan proportions. They did include "quick defensive coverage adjustments" which mean you can more readily adjust to double teams, and I imagine "spotlighting" receivers as well - though I don't know for sure as I don't have the game yet.




I am a little annoyed with all the whining about AC being OP, learn to play defense, watch some more football, because I know from watching a bunch of games last year that Dez Bryant was routinely doubled, or "bracketed". I bring this up to say, if, in the actual NFL he is that big a pain to command double teams and coverage "rolling", then he darn sure should be that way in Madden. Same for Megatron and blah blah blah...


You should not be able to consistently stop those impact type receivers in 1 on 1 situations, except for with equally brilliant DBs. You should have to double team them, roll coverage at them, and just in general be aware of where they line up every play.

1.- I don't think they removed the swat ball. It was r1 last year.
2-.AC issue also applies for user getting easy completion against the AI.



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[EccentricMeat]

Re: Is The New Aggressive Catch Overpowered? (Possible Tweak Coming In Tuning Update?

I feel like EA should have brought back double team plays in the defensive playbooks along with "air supremacy". The other thing they overlooked was not giving defenders a third option. Receivers have three catch types, DBs should have three options as well, play receiver, pick play ball, and swat play ball.


Not including them was a huge mistake in my opinion, particularly because of how well they did on the DB/WR interactions, and the new passing tweaks.


Having said that, tuning "aggressive catch" at this point would be a mistake of equally gargantuan proportions. They did include "quick defensive coverage adjustments" which mean you can more readily adjust to double teams, and I imagine "spotlighting" receivers as well - though I don't know for sure as I don't have the game yet.




I am a little annoyed with all the whining about AC being OP, learn to play defense, watch some more football, because I know from watching a bunch of games last year that Dez Bryant was routinely doubled, or "bracketed". I bring this up to say, if, in the actual NFL he is that big a pain to command double teams and coverage "rolling", then he darn sure should be that way in Madden. Same for Megatron and blah blah blah...


You should not be able to consistently stop those impact type receivers in 1 on 1 situations, except for with equally brilliant DBs. You should have to double team them, roll coverage at them, and just in general be aware of where they line up every play.

I agree with your post for the most part, but I just wanted to point out that there ARE three options on defense, as you can choose to swat the ball instead of going for the INT or playing the receiver.


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[JKSportsGamer1984]

Re: Is The New Aggressive Catch Overpowered? (Possible Tweak Coming In Tuning Update?

I feel like EA should have brought back double team plays in the defensive playbooks along with "air supremacy". The other thing they overlooked was not giving defenders a third option. Receivers have three catch types, DBs should have three options as well, play receiver, pick play ball, and swat play ball.


Not including them was a huge mistake in my opinion, particularly because of how well they did on the DB/WR interactions, and the new passing tweaks.


Having said that, tuning "aggressive catch" at this point would be a mistake of equally gargantuan proportions. They did include "quick defensive coverage adjustments" which mean you can more readily adjust to double teams, and I imagine "spotlighting" receivers as well - though I don't know for sure as I don't have the game yet.




I am a little annoyed with all the whining about AC being OP, learn to play defense, watch some more football, because I know from watching a bunch of games last year that Dez Bryant was routinely doubled, or "bracketed". I bring this up to say, if, in the actual NFL he is that big a pain to command double teams and coverage "rolling", then he darn sure should be that way in Madden. Same for Megatron and blah blah blah...


You should not be able to consistently stop those impact type receivers in 1 on 1 situations, except for with equally brilliant DBs. You should have to double team them, roll coverage at them, and just in general be aware of where they line up every play.

I don't think anyone is saying that Dez or Megatron should not be able to make aggressive catches especially if their not defended properly. The problem is too many average receivers are able to make the same types of catches in the game whereas IRL you rarely see that. I'm ok with Dez or Megatron making spectacular catches when covered, but when Julian Edelman is making these same types of catches on the regular that's a problem.

Again, it's not so much that aggressive catching is OP, it's that these one handed / catching the ball with 3+ defenders draped all over you should be limited to elite receivers only & right now it's not.

[Trick13]

Re: Is The New Aggressive Catch Overpowered? (Possible Tweak Coming In Tuning Update?

1.- I don't think they removed the swat ball. It was r1 last year.
2-.AC issue also applies for user getting easy completion against the AI.

Ok, so swat is still a separate option, but did it get the "attention" that the other "interactions" received? Meaning within the new "air supremacy" stuff did they rework the swat animations, are they as responsive, are they more effective (as they should be) than pick attempts, etc etc?


Easy completions against the AI, is quite frankly, a result of EA not including double team plays and a more robust "adaptive AI" system!
Not to mention that EA still has routes that destroy man coverage without respecting the relevant ratings. Just because you run a drag route against man coverage that should not be "automatically" open... If the defender in man coverage is clearly better than the receiver, and has the requisite quickness and cover skills then that route should not be open. The idea that permeates this, and other Madden chat sites, that certain routes are "zone killers" or man "coverage busters" is just plain ridiculous.


Defensive coordinators and defensive players are just too freaking good for that to be true.


Think of it this way, if you have Patrick Peterson in man cover vs Cole Beasley on a drag route ( without a pick) do you really think Beasley is going to toast Peterson??? Get out of here! Beasley is awesome, and he may win that battle within an individual play, but he isn't winning it 100 percent of the time, just because the route is "the right route vs man coverage". Heck, I doubt he would win that matchup situation 50 percent of the time.


Until EA, begins to go deeper, more complex within the logic, there will continue to be serious issues. As of Madden 15, EA still had included routes that were "immune" to press coverage, irrespective of the matchup ratings involved - meaning even a WR with 60 release would get off the LOS free vs press from a 99 press CB . Meaning no matter the adjustments you made the DB would never disrupt the route. Such a route does not exist in the NFL, I assure you. And I am not talking motioned receivers or screen patterns (the latter of which would result in an audible most likely), but regular 9 routes, or posts, or wheel routes.


I don't think the AI issue can be fixed without adaptive AI. In addition, the CPU (as far as I know) does not ever defensively hot route into double team coverage, or spotlight receivers, and it certainly doesn't shadow receivers in the way a user can. That being the case, we will likely have balance issues vs the AI until they add in double team plays that the CPU could then utilize, hopefully with some intelligent tendency based adaptive AI...