Anyone find any semblance of a running game yet?

[xCoachDx]

Anyone find any semblance of a running game yet?

I haven’t broken enough plays down like this to see if it’s the issue, but perhaps our run game is struggling so much because the AI go brain dead with their blocking assignments.

Forgive the picture only here. Game capture is down at the moment.

So we have what looks to be a good power play here. Our RB will read the MLB that is free and look to make his cut off of him when the guard engages him on the pull. If the LB on the end crashes outside, the TE should ignore him and move to the MLB and let the guard kick him out, but I assumed with Madden logic he’ll just try to hook him instead. I thought pre-snap I might have a chance to break one here.



But instead, the slot just runs upfield. I guess to block the FS or something. So I’m like okay, maybe we can hit the hole and outrun the pursuing MLB as the DB should get picked up by the pulling guard now.



But nope. The pulling guard decides to focus his attention on the pursuing LB, leaving me nowhere to run except straight into the DB, who had a blocker directly in front of him at the snap, and yet goes completely untouched the entire play.




This absolutely baffled me. I have no explanation for any of it. Didn’t block the right person before the snap, didn’t block the biggest threat after the snap, is there any logic going on at all??

Edit: Sorry for the last potato pic. Didn’t look that fuzzy on preview. Haha

[bravo2208]

Re: Anyone find any semblance of a running game yet?

Does anyone else think there is a weird glitch or stutter step when the runner takes the ball in SLOW speed gameplay? Its so annoying.

It happens on Slow and Very Slow. I just switched to Normal and it's gone. Now I actually have a chance to gain some decent yardage. I wish I knew about that issue sooner. I assumed that little hitch was part of the One Cut feature lol.

[xCoachDx]

Re: Anyone find any semblance of a running game yet?

Gonna add one more to the thread as this is clearly part of the problem IMO.

Simple dive play to the right here. We have hat on hat on the playside and an easy double team on DT. We’ll leave the weak side End/LB walked up. If he wants to crash in, we’ll end up hitting him hard with something back the other way. He should stay home and not be a problem.



But instead, our RT doubles with the TE on the End/LB walked up on the right side. Which forces our guard to block the RMLB, so the DT is already in the gap we are trying to run. Beyond that, our two linemen on the backside double the weak side DT... for some reason. So the weak side LB is left free to scrape and hit us right in the hole.



I know some may think it’s a lot to ask to have blocking schemes that make even a little bit of sense, but do you remember NCAA 11-14? That every bit of this in it? Double teams, chip blocks, all sorts of things? They advertised that they brought in offensive linemen to help them implement the proper schemes. Did all of that just disappear? Or are we back to the PS2 era where they essentially just block the first person that appears in front of them? Well, that can’t be right either as my pics in the post before this shows that doesn’t happen either. I’m totally lost as to why the AI has decided what they are doing before the ball is snapped.

[Bushido]

Re: Anyone find any semblance of a running game yet?

Averaging 5.9 yards per carry with Derrick Henry, using Armor Swords sliders. Just wish the CPU could challenge me more. Leonard Fournette did have 70 yards against my defense in the last game, but juked himself out of a few runs which should have gone for more yardage.

[maddog00003]

Re: Anyone find any semblance of a running game yet?

Madeen’s running game opened up so much more when I checked out Matt10’s sliders from here.
He has them available on the community download files in Madden

[RogueHominid]

Re: Anyone find any semblance of a running game yet?

Gonna add one more to the thread as this is clearly part of the problem IMO.

Simple dive play to the right here. We have hat on hat on the playside and an easy double team on DT. We’ll leave the weak side End/LB walked up. If he wants to crash in, we’ll end up hitting him hard with something back the other way. He should stay home and not be a problem.



But instead, our RT doubles with the TE on the End/LB walked up on the right side. Which forces our guard to block the RMLB, so the DT is already in the gap we are trying to run. Beyond that, our two linemen on the backside double the weak side DT... for some reason. So the weak side LB is left free to scrape and hit us right in the hole.



I know some may think it’s a lot to ask to have blocking schemes that make even a little bit of sense, but do you remember NCAA 11-14? That every bit of this in it? Double teams, chip blocks, all sorts of things? They advertised that they brought in offensive linemen to help them implement the proper schemes. Did all of that just disappear? Or are we back to the PS2 era where they essentially just block the first person that appears in front of them? Well, that can’t be right either as my pics in the post before this shows that doesn’t happen either. I’m totally lost as to why the AI has decided what they are doing before the ball is snapped.

Coach, I've watched lots of replays of my own bad running plays to try to figure out what's going on, and I'm seeing lots of the stuff you describe.

Issue one is a high frequency of unblocked LB who would have been targeted last year. The guys who do the doubling seem not to chip and move or peel to the 2nd level level intelligently.

I also notice that OL seem to be confused as the play is developing about whom they should block. I've seen OL on a pull, for example, look at a guy just behind them like they're thinking about peeling back, then decide not to do so, opting instead to seek their original target. But what happens is that their hesitation makes it so they can't get to that original target, and they effectively block no one, all while slowing your ball carrier down because they're not moving as urgently as their defensive counterparts.

I see this mostly on pull plays.

I'm not sure if it's realistic or not, since I'm not a coach, but I've noticed both of these things contributing to the difficulty running.

[xCoachDx]

Re: Anyone find any semblance of a running game yet?

Coach, I've watched lots of replays of my own bad running plays to try to figure out what's going on, and I'm seeing lots of the stuff you describe.



Issue one is a high frequency of unblocked LB who would have been targeted last year. The guys who do the doubling seem not to chip and move or peel to the 2nd level level intelligently.



I also notice that OL seem to be confused as the play is developing about whom they should block. I've seen OL on a pull, for example, look at a guy just behind them like they're thinking about peeling back, then decide not to do so, opting instead to seek their original target. But what happens is that their hesitation makes it so they can't get to that original target, and they effectively block no one, all while slowing your ball carrier down because they're not moving as urgently as their defensive counterparts.



I see this mostly on pull plays.



I'm not sure if it's realistic or not, since I'm not a coach, but I've noticed both of these things contributing to the difficulty running.

I just saw some people on another thread showing the exact same issues. So blocking IQ is definitely a big issue within the run game. I’m not sure if that is a patch fix, but if it’s not, this game is in trouble.

[Dcourtne]

Re: Anyone find any semblance of a running game yet?

I just saw some people on another thread showing the exact same issues. So blocking IQ is definitely a big issue within the run game. I’m not sure if that is a patch fix, but if it’s not, this game is in trouble.

I have the feeling that a patch fix would probably restore M18 run game - which means run outside real fast.

The OL on the Out of the box roster seem to be underrated as compared to the DL and LBs. I wonder if that is the reason for the poor blocking IQ (at least in part)

[MMurda]

Re: Anyone find any semblance of a running game yet?

I bumped up run blk for user and cpu to 52. i like small changes at a time. my tackling is down to 35 tho where i usually have it for all maddens so there is actually some missed 1 on 1 tkls that should happen(barreling or juking rb vs cb in open field). im doing a test franchise with browns. before this ive only had 1 gm with seahawks where i had a decent run gm in play now.

Ok i played my 1st season gm browns vs steelers. man what a good gm running i had. i think the rpm has finally clicked for me and i got a even better feel for it. then with the slight tweaks, even with some players on my oline being avg (rookie 74ovr LG and bad 71ovr RT) i managed to get duke johnson jr at 12-117yds 1td and carlos hyde as power back 20-108yds. duke had 1 long run td of about 50yds.

In this game even against the steelers i saw my oline making good blocks. i didnt see too much of the stuff i was seeing before with a ton of missed blocks or boneheaded moves blocking nobody. even my 71ovr RT was making some decent blocks and expected decisions. 1 that stuck out was on a stretch he moved the lb outa the play sideways towards the sideline and opened up a nice big hole for me to cut into and up the field. i was able to run to both sides and even up the middle some. i hope these results arent a fluke. (well i dont expect to get 200yds rushing every gm just an actual running gm)

Cpu running is still a slight issue it seems but we will see. leveon bell had like 24-70yds 2.9ypc. maybe i just had a good defensive gm i dunno. maybe ill give them 1 more click to 53 run blk after about 4 more gms and test if i still see issues. i dont like it to get to the point where u beef it up so much u can never penetrate or generate a loss on the run. i also need to check steelers oline ratings as well to analyze further his performance.

[Therebelyell626]

Re: Anyone find any semblance of a running game yet?

I haven’t broken enough plays down like this to see if it’s the issue, but perhaps our run game is struggling so much because the AI go brain dead with their blocking assignments.

Forgive the picture only here. Game capture is down at the moment.

So we have what looks to be a good power play here. Our RB will read the MLB that is free and look to make his cut off of him when the guard engages him on the pull. If the LB on the end crashes outside, the TE should ignore him and move to the MLB and let the guard kick him out, but I assumed with Madden logic he’ll just try to hook him instead. I thought pre-snap I might have a chance to break one here.



But instead, the slot just runs upfield. I guess to block the FS or something. So I’m like okay, maybe we can hit the hole and outrun the pursuing MLB as the DB should get picked up by the pulling guard now.



But nope. The pulling guard decides to focus his attention on the pursuing LB, leaving me nowhere to run except straight into the DB, who had a blocker directly in front of him at the snap, and yet goes completely untouched the entire play.




This absolutely baffled me. I have no explanation for any of it. Didn’t block the right person before the snap, didn’t block the biggest threat after the snap, is there any logic going on at all??

Edit: Sorry for the last potato pic. Didn’t look that fuzzy on preview. Haha

Honestly dude. From looking at the last picture look how far ahead Of your pulling blocker you are. That's why you are getting blown up by that free up defender. Also I could be wrong but your running back seems to be in sprint animation in that picture. Which behind the line of scrimmage is a death sentence his year. Could also be why you are out running your blocking.

However, it is hard to tell what's going on from just pictures a video would have been a lot easier to diagnose so I could be wrong on all counts but I don't think I am.

[Therebelyell626]

Re: Anyone find any semblance of a running game yet?

Gonna add one more to the thread as this is clearly part of the problem IMO.

Simple dive play to the right here. We have hat on hat on the playside and an easy double team on DT. We’ll leave the weak side End/LB walked up. If he wants to crash in, we’ll end up hitting him hard with something back the other way. He should stay home and not be a problem.



But instead, our RT doubles with the TE on the End/LB walked up on the right side. Which forces our guard to block the RMLB, so the DT is already in the gap we are trying to run. Beyond that, our two linemen on the backside double the weak side DT... for some reason. So the weak side LB is left free to scrape and hit us right in the hole.



I know some may think it’s a lot to ask to have blocking schemes that make even a little bit of sense, but do you remember NCAA 11-14? That every bit of this in it? Double teams, chip blocks, all sorts of things? They advertised that they brought in offensive linemen to help them implement the proper schemes. Did all of that just disappear? Or are we back to the PS2 era where they essentially just block the first person that appears in front of them? Well, that can’t be right either as my pics in the post before this shows that doesn’t happen either. I’m totally lost as to why the AI has decided what they are doing before the ball is snapped.

Final picture. Your right. There is not really much you can do here. But sometimes the defense just makes the right call. If you had used the one cut mechanic into the whole between the guard and the tackle you probably could have at least salvaged he play for 3-4 yards

[xCoachDx]

Re: Anyone find any semblance of a running game yet?

Final picture. Your right. There is not really much you can do here. But sometimes the defense just makes the right call. If you had used the one cut mechanic into the whole between the guard and the tackle you probably could have at least salvaged he play for 3-4 yards

That’s not the defense making the right call. We should have been able to block their call easily. That’s the AI schemes being completely messed up. And yes, 3-4 yards is what we got, but we should have had the opportunity to break off a lot more. If we get the right look and still don’t have the opportunity, then the run game will be completely random. We’ll just be at the mercy of when the offense wants to block properly and doesn’t. It has nothing to do with ratings either.

[Therebelyell626]

Re: Anyone find any semblance of a running game yet?

That’s not the defense making the right call. We should have been able to block their call easily. That’s the AI schemes being completely messed up. And yes, 3-4 yards is what we got, but we should have had the opportunity to break off a lot more. If we get the right look and still don’t have the opportunity, then the run game will be completely random. We’ll just be at the mercy of when the offense wants to block properly and doesn’t. It has nothing to do with ratings either.

Here is why I am disagreeing with you coach:

1) you have 63 about to engage a block in the second level with 74 already engaged in a block

2) you have 85 going to the second level to engage one of two defenders in a block

3) there is a whole between 63 (provided you allow him to engage his block before you hit it) and 74. This is the best hole in my opinion to hit on this play.

4) if you allow 85 to engage his block you now have a one on one match up at the second level. Even if you do not beat this defender you still have a positive gain in the effect of 3 to 4 yards. By all means a decent pick up

5) you highlight a direct a route by the linebacker in yellow that if he takes, and you hit the whole I pointed out will cause him to overpursue providing you use the one cut mechanic into the whole I pointed out giving you your one on one match up in the second level. If he linebacker does not take the route you highlighted he would then pursue around 63 and the defender he is supposed to engage. At which point you would then have a 2 on 1 disadvantage, but still at 3-4 yards in the second level for a positive gain.

6) you say it's a problem with scheme but I disagree. The defense has one extra guy in the box then you have people to block with (all you have to do is count how many steelers are in the box compared to browns). This is called playing the run. This is the right call on the play you were running and you would have been better served audible to pass. take advantage of your matchups and know when to fold on the run when they are not in your favor

7) I also would have changed direction the weak side as there are only three defenders for 3 blockers. If I was adamant on running and didn't audible to pass. The right side has a corner in the slot and a safety cheating down.

I am not trying to argue with you or calling you out. I am simply pointing out what I am seeing and what I would do and I am having tremendous success running on all madden with default sliders. Now passingthats another story as all madden seems to have physic defender

[xCoachDx]

Re: Anyone find any semblance of a running game yet?

Here is why I am disagreeing with you coach:

1) you have 63 about to engage a block in the second level with 74 already engaged in a block

2) you have 85 going to the second level to engage one of two defenders in a block

3) there is a whole between 63 (provided you allow him to engage his block before you hit it) and 74. This is the best hole in my opinion to hit on this play.

4) if you allow 85 to engage his block you now have a one on one match up at the second level. Even if you do not beat this defender you still have a positive gain in the effect of 3 to 4 yards. By all means a decent pick up

5) you highlight a direct a route by the linebacker in yellow that if he takes, and you hit the whole I pointed out will cause him to overpursue providing you use the one cut mechanic into the whole I pointed out giving you your one on one match up in the second level. If he linebacker does not take the route you highlighted he would then pursue around 63 and the defender he is supposed to engage. At which point you would then have a 2 on 1 advantage, but still at 3-4 yards in the second level for a positive gain.

6) you say it's a problem with scheme but I disagree. The defense has one extra guy in the box then you have people to block with (all you have to do is count how many steelers are in the box compared to browns). This is called playing the run. This is the right call on the play you were running and you would have been better served audible to pass. take advantage of your matchups and no when to fold on the run when they are not in your favor

7) I also would have hanged direction the weak side as there are only three defenders for 3 blockers. If I was adamant on running and didn't audible to pass. The right side has a corner in the slot and a safety cheating down.

I am not trying to argue with you or calling you out. I am simply pointing out what I am seeing and what I would do and I am having tremendous success running on all madden with default sliders. Now passingthats another story as all madden seems to have physic defender

You’re looking purely at the final picture, the problem is that we never should have gotten to that point. We have 6 guys to block 5. Instead, we have our RT go and double team a player that isn’t even in his gap. I think literally anyone can look at that alignment pre-snap and understand that he wouldn’t block there realistically. However he does, which causes the entire scheme to be messed up on what should have been a pretty easy big gain for us. It hurts things from a basic gameplay point of view, and completely eliminates anyone playing this trying to emulate realism.

I’ve seen people in other threads pointing out the same thing. This was something that, at one point in time, was implemented very well by EA. Whereas now, it’s implemented extremely poorly.

The previous picture of mine shows these issues on an even greater scale. Players not only blocking the wrong people before the snap, but also not blocking threats by proximity. They just end up running to random people. If we are getting the set up that we want, and the players will not do what they should be doing, that is a problem. If they were getting to the right person and not hitting blocks, that’s a completely different discussion. As it is now, it’s a problem.

[Jagsfan24]

Re: Anyone find any semblance of a running game yet?

I think this game wants us to pass more