Is madden building on a broken foundation?

[SageWonder]

What I would like to know is this - each area of Madden has a designated team. A team for sound, art direction, franchise, etc. So why is it that each area sees so few updates every year? Gameplay specifically.

Think about it. What are the major changes this year? Suction tackling (tackling in general) and blocking has been fixed. Go back and play Madden 08, tell me that consecutive hit tackling is new or that suction was an issue. What else... Oh yeah, weapons are new for 12! Oh wait...

These are the two main gameplay additions the devs have been advertising. It almost seems as if the code for these systems was copied/pasted from earlier games.

I'm intentionally leaving out the zone coverage redesign because I believe that was an NCAA feature ported over to Madden. I may be completely wrong on that, and I apologize if that's the case.

I guess my point is, other than porting over code, what has the gameplay team been doing when that's the only thing they should be focused on?

Lastly, this post isn't to bash the devs, just to discuss the Madden engine and how the dev team constructs it, that's all.

Posted using the power of knowledge.

[roadman]

Re: Is madden building on a broken foundation?

What I would like to know is this - each area of Madden has a designated team. A team for sound, art direction, franchise, etc. So why is it that each area sees so few updates every year? Gameplay specifically.

Think about it. What are the major changes this year? Suction tackling (tackling in general) and blocking has been fixed. Go back and play Madden 08, tell me that consecutive hit tackling is new or that suction was an issue. What else... Oh yeah, weapons are new for 12! Oh wait...

These are the two main gameplay additions the devs have been advertising. It almost seems as if the code for these systems was copied/pasted from earlier games.

I'm intentionally leaving out the zone coverage redesign because I believe that was an NCAA feature ported over to Madden. I may be completely wrong on that, and I apologize if that's the case.

I guess my point is, other than porting over code, what has the gameplay team been doing when that's the only thing they should be focused on?

Lastly, this post isn't to bash the devs, just to discuss the Madden engine and how the dev team constructs it, that's all.

Posted using the power of knowledge.

Welcome aboard.

I understand your sentiment, many others have expressed the same as yours now and in the past, but weapons are not player traits. I thought weapons was stupid, if you don't know your team or others on other teams, etc.....

Plus, custom playbooks are in and improved zone defense. Plus, a deep franchise mode is what I'm looking for is replayability.

[SageWonder]

Thanks!

'weapons' I guess was the wrong word to use, but player traits were in past iterations, which was the point I was wanting to make.

Posted using the power of knowledge.

[bukktown]

Re: Is madden building on a broken foundation?

'05 was the year linebackers and DBs were jumping out of shoes/socks to intercept passes, resulting in imbalanced gameplay. Done mainly because the gameplay in '04 was so out of whack because of their tailoring things around Michael Vick which were resulting in people regularly scoring 70pt+ games in 5min quarters.

No, imo they would've been criticized if they tried to port what was in place last gen. I think people forget that the engine was showing it's age back then - lack of player interaction, graphics (pudgy/muscular player models), and huge presentation issues. 2K/989/Microsoft Studios were opening people's eyes to different takes on videogame football. The big thing the PS2-era games had going for it were the gameplay and depth. Things like player momentum, ball physics, franchise, online play, extra game/practice modes, create-a-play, etc. were all things Madden did really well last gen. With the next gen jump they ported over the problems they had last gen, and added issues with almost everything they were already doing well the previous generation. The one area the game improved was graphics - pretty much everything else was a step (or several steps) backwards.

Imo many look fondly back on the older games mainly because next gen Madden and NCAA have been so bad for so long. Back then we wanted change; I don't think anyone imagined they'd make the games so much worse.

I bet the % of people that would have preferred ps2 gameplay with ps3 graphics back in the 06-09 era would be easily over 75%.

[wyrm187]

Re: Is madden building on a broken foundation?

I bet the % of people that would have preferred ps2 gameplay with ps3 graphics back in the 06-09 era would be easily over 75%.

I agree and just because they ported it over doesnt mean they couldnt improve upon it. Imagine where we could be now. The point is, for myself - the last time I actually enjoyed playing madden was 05 - the poster above even said that 05 had gameplay going for it - the new gen games have never flowed well and something doesnt feel right about them, or fun for that matter.

[BezO]

Re: Is madden building on a broken foundation?

The crazy thing is if you look at MLB the SHow - the game is the same on PS2 and PS3, same engine, same gameplay - they just reskinned in . . .. it's the same damn game.

I think The Show was a better game on the PS2 than Madden with a more flexible "engine". Their game just translated better and allowed for more, realistic improvements.

NBA 2K is another example. They continued to build on the same engine, but they were also in a better position to do so than Madden.

If they would have done that with 05 they would have a bunch of lovers on here - not a bunch of haters. They already had a WINNER in place with 05 and for some reason they chose to start from scratch, we know it was not the technology because the show did it for both systems. I for one am done donating to this crap franchise

Personally, '05 is when I jumped ship to 2K. 2K4-5 were the games that showed me what madden was missing.

IMO, Madden '05 was great to so many because expectations were lower. Minus the features that still haven't returned, Madden '05 had the same problems I'm complaining about today. The complaints are louder because I expect more in '11.

[TLF]

Re: Is madden building on a broken foundation?

I think The Show was a better game on the PS2 than Madden with a more flexible "engine". Their game just translated better and allowed for more, realistic improvements.

NBA 2K is another example. They continued to build on the same engine, but they were also in a better position to do so than Madden.

Personally, '05 is when I jumped ship to 2K. 2K4-5 were the games that showed me what madden was missing.

IMO, Madden '05 was great to so many because expectations were lower. Minus the features that still haven't returned, Madden '05 had the same problems I'm complaining about today. The complaints are louder because I expect more in '11.

to be honest i Agree

NFL 2K4 and 5 did have more than Madden's amd those 2 games are my favorite football games

but Madden 07 . 05 and 08 were the best ones so far



but i do hope this year is different

the NCAA 12 demo was sick if Madden is the same as that or better im gonna be Pumped

[Lakers 24 7]

Re: Is madden building on a broken foundation?

PS2 gameplay had A LOT of bugs and exploits. It was a very minimalistic football game, but that was OK to an extent due to the hardware. Porting over that game to the next generation consoles would not have been acceptable being that they could do so much more with the game, besides improving graphics.

I don't think you can compare Madden to the The Show, the latter seems to already have a solid core engine that enabled a realistic game. The same can't be said for Madden, they needed to redo things. Also, there's much more to producing an NFL game than MLB anyway, which also makes the two routes incomparable.

[BezO]

Re: Is madden building on a broken foundation?

PS2 gameplay had A LOT of bugs and exploits. It was a very minimalistic football game, but that was OK to an extent due to the hardware. Porting over that game to the next generation consoles would not have been acceptable being that they could do so much more with the game, besides improving graphics.

Seems to me they did port or copy much of the code from last gen though. They've since improved on some of it, but many of the legacy issues remain. If current gen Madden was rebuilt from the ground up as they claim, they cheated off the old code.

[Only1LT]

Re: Is madden building on a broken foundation?

Seems to me they did port or copy much of the code from last gen though. They've since improved on some of it, but many of the legacy issues remain. If current gen Madden was rebuilt from the ground up as they claim, they cheated off the old code.

The game was built from the ground up on this Gen. The problem was that they built it from the ground up to play like the last gen games. They largely succeeded in many areas that they shouldn't have tried to copy, and failed in a a very few areas where last gen was actually better.

[Only1LT]

Re: Is madden building on a broken foundation?

to be honest i Agree

NFL 2K4 and 5 did have more than Madden's amd those 2 games are my favorite football games

but Madden 07 . 05 and 08 were the best ones so far



but i do hope this year is different

the NCAA 12 demo was sick if Madden is the same as that or better im gonna be Pumped

Replace Madden 08 (yuck) with 99 on your best Madden's list and then you might have something lol.

I'm glad you liked the NCAA demo. It actually had the opposite effect on me and my excitement for Madden.

[roadman]

Re: Is madden building on a broken foundation?

Replace Madden 08 (yuck) with 99 on your best Madden's list and then you might have something lol.

I'm glad you liked the NCAA demo. It actually had the opposite effect on me and my excitement for Madden.

Eh, I liked the demo and it's 2.5 months old. There are people over there saying the game they have is playing much better than the demo and there was a tuner added.

I'm not crossing either off the list, yet. I was only going to purchase one FB game this year. We'll see.

I agree with your sentiments on 08, yuck.

[Kanobi]

Re: Is madden building on a broken foundation?

Is madden building on a broken foundation?

I think so. When I watch/play the game...I never get the feeling I'm playing something truly next-gen. I haven't purchased a Madden game since '05. And won't be doing so this year from the looks of things.

[CRMosier_LM]

Re: Is madden building on a broken foundation?

Eh, I liked the demo and it's 2.5 months old. There are people over there saying the game they have is playing much better than the demo and there was a tuner added.

I'm not crossing either off the list, yet. I was only going to purchase one FB game this year. We'll see.

I agree with your sentiments on 08, yuck.

Yes the ncaa demo was built in late april. The E3 Madden version was early may I believe and.yes there was a tuner update on loading ncaa retail version

[Broncos86]

Re: Is madden building on a broken foundation?

I'm loving what NCAA is showing, so I'm pumped for Madden. The new tackling has been a major quality of life improvement for me. Add in a sweet franchise mode and DPP/traits, and bam.