Is madden building on a broken foundation?

[Only1LT]

Re: Is madden building on a broken foundation?

Eh, I liked the demo and it's 2.5 months old. There are people over there saying the game they have is playing much better than the demo and there was a tuner added.

I'm not crossing either off the list, yet. I was only going to purchase one FB game this year. We'll see.

I agree with your sentiments on 08, yuck.

I understand it's an old build, but I don't expect miracles in 2mos. The movement felt a little better, even if the animations weren't, and I definitely liked the lack of suction.

On the downside, the visuals were very soft and underwhelming (could be the fact it was an old build or that it was down res-ed for the demo, or both) and the passing game issues, ie poor ball trajectory, poor AI ball placement logic, and all powerful tethering, made it a thoroughly unenjoyable experience at times.

It wasn't terrible by any stretch, and I'm glad that you, and others, liked it, it was just a little more underwhelming to me than I had hoped.

If a newer build makes all that much difference, I would be ecstatic. I just tend to doubt that it will be the case. We'll see I guess.

[roadman]

Re: Is madden building on a broken foundation?

Yes the ncaa demo was built in late april. The E3 Madden version was early may I believe and.yes there was a tuner update on loading ncaa retail version

Yep, you, along with Ryno Acid and Flightwhite are saying the retail version is different than the demo version.

Looking forward to both retail versions.

[Smoke6]

Re: Is madden building on a broken foundation?

The game was built from the ground up on this Gen. The problem was that they built it from the ground up to play like the last gen games. They largely succeeded in many areas that they shouldn't have tried to copy, and failed in a a very few areas where last gen was actually better.

Sorry bruh, but you are so wrong on this, I posted there "NEW ENGINE" that was built from the "GROUND UP" they had showcased and teased almost a year before it launched and was shown off at E3 (i was there). You can even find the thread or post about the devs stating they had to go back to a more traditional look and feel of the game as the engine they had was not upto par and was scrapped in place for what we have had since 08.

I think the skill level of most of the programmer there is just as limited as to what we have gotten. Like someone said earlier about seperate teams for seperate functions of the the game, it doesnt make sense why we are further behind than what we had last gen but still have most of the same gameplay flaws and bugs.

I am positive there is an E3 interview video up somewhere regarding this, I will edit my post when i find it!

[Broncos86]

Re: Is madden building on a broken foundation?

You can't change the past, only learn from it. At this point, all you can do is be constructive and resourceful. Anyone who thinks calling out the devs is going to do any good will likely just find themselves banned from these forums (check the NCAA forum for recent forum rule updates).

[Only1LT]

Re: Is madden building on a broken foundation?

Sorry bruh, but you are so wrong on this, I posted there "NEW ENGINE" that was built from the "GROUND UP" they had showcased and teased almost a year before it launched and was shown off at E3 (i was there). You can even find the thread or post about the devs stating they had to go back to a more traditional look and feel of the game as the engine they had was not upto par and was scrapped in place for what we have had since 08.

I think the skill level of most of the programmer there is just as limited as to what we have gotten. Like someone said earlier about seperate teams for seperate functions of the the game, it doesnt make sense why we are further behind than what we had last gen but still have most of the same gameplay flaws and bugs.

I am positive there is an E3 interview video up somewhere regarding this, I will edit my post when i find it!

First the hardware is different. You don't just copy paste code from one hardware version to another. Unless you are talking about Java, in which case that is the very reason why the JVM was created. But I digress. You don't copy paste an app designed for Windows and put it on UNIX and call it a day. So to think that they did not have to do massive rewrites for the game, especially considering the lead console was PS2, and then became 360 on this gen, which are nothing alike, makes no sense.

Furthermore they have said numerous times that they built the game from the ground up for this gen. That doesn't mean that it has nothing in common with last gen, it actually has a lot in common with last gen, and again, that is mostly for the worst, but you are making the process out to be much simpler than it is when people say "oh they just ported the code over." As if they hit Ctrl A, Ctrl, C, Ctrl V, and then went for a brewski.

Doesn't work that way.

[shnuskis]

Re: Is madden building on a broken foundation?

You are making the process out to be much simpler than it is when people say "oh they just ported the code over." As if they hit Ctrl A, Ctrl, C, Ctrl V, and then went for a brewski.

Doesn't work that way.

You hold that control button. I will go get the Brewski's!!!

[Smoke6]

Re: Is madden building on a broken foundation?

You can't change the past, only learn from it. At this point, all you can do is be constructive and resourceful. Anyone who thinks calling out the devs is going to do any good will likely just find themselves banned from these forums (check the NCAA forum for recent forum rule updates).

That was clearly not my intentions and it came out wrong since you have put it that way. It wasnt intended on calling out the devs, it was just "my opinion" on the state of the topic at hand.

In other words, the game feels really bland and outdated and needs some new life put into it is all im saying. I didnt mean to come off as being unconstructive, you have my apology.

[roadman]

Re: Is madden building on a broken foundation?

I understand it's an old build, but I don't expect miracles in 2mos. The movement felt a little better, even if the animations weren't, and I definitely liked the lack of suction.

On the downside, the visuals were very soft and underwhelming (could be the fact it was an old build or that it was down res-ed for the demo, or both) and the passing game issues, ie poor ball trajectory, poor AI ball placement logic, and all powerful tethering, made it a thoroughly unenjoyable experience at times.

It wasn't terrible by any stretch, and I'm glad that you, and others, liked it, it was just a little more underwhelming to me than I had hoped.

If a newer build makes all that much difference, I would be ecstatic. I just tend to doubt that it will be the case. We'll see I guess.

Oh, I wasn't expecting ball trajectory to be improved. Once Phil said they tweaked it a little on Madden this year(he said he knows it's a lot of people's concerns), then I knew NCAA probably wasn't touched.

Not just going off the demo, I'm going off the impressions of people who have the retail game and they are all saying it's much better than the demo.

As you said, we will see and sooner rather than later.

[Only1LT]

Re: Is madden building on a broken foundation?

Oh, I wasn't expecting ball trajectory to be improved. Once Phil said they tweaked it a little on Madden this year(he said he knows it's a lot of people's concerns), then I knew NCAA probably wasn't touched.

Not just going off the demo, I'm going off the impressions of people who have the retail game and they are all saying it's much better than the demo.

As you said, we will see and sooner rather than later.

They would have to do a lot more than tweak the passing game for me lol, but ANY attention in this area would be GREATLY appreciated as it has been an issue since forever, with the exception of a couple of Madden's.

Maybe that's the disconnect for me and you, and others who enjoy the demo, and the series in general. I DO expect issues to be corrected every single time there is a new game, or at least an attempt to be made to correct a particular issue. When it isn't, it is nearly impossible for me to have warm and fuzzies. Not saying that you are a faithful sheep or you have low standards or anything like that, just that we may go into the experience with a totally different set of expectations, which leads to different takes.

Although I am a HUGE College Football fan, I am a much larger NFL fan, and the games are too similar to get both in my opinion, so I focus on Madden anyway. So if the end product of retail Madden turns out better than the end retail product of NCAA, it wouldn't bother me at all. I hope you and those that have played the retail game are right, and that it gets much better than this.

No, I really, REALLY hope so lol.

[Broncos86]

Re: Is madden building on a broken foundation?

When they do a work-over on the passing game, I really want it to be a major focus. I don't want to hear "we tweaked it, check it off the list." I want to hear "Okay, so this year was about the passing game."

I did feel a MAJOR difference in the passing game from Madden 09 to Madden 10. It actually threw me off for a while. So I know major changes can be made.

[Lakers 24 7]

Re: Is madden building on a broken foundation?

I don't see what's remotely realistic or sim about the NCAA demo, but that's another discussion. Tuners change tendencies, they can't fix broken gameplay like unrealistic momentum, unrealistic drop backs, unrealistic route running, unrealistic planting, no depth to the schemes, no chip blocks, no bull rush, easy passing game (tuner can adjust this a bit), overall lack of X's and O's depth to the game.

[roadman]

Re: Is madden building on a broken foundation?

They would have to do a lot more than tweak the passing game for me lol, but ANY attention in this area would be GREATLY appreciated as it has been an issue since forever, with the exception of a couple of Madden's.

Maybe that's the disconnect for me and you, and others who enjoy the demo, and the series in general. I DO expect issues to be corrected every single time there is a new game, or at least an attempt to be made to correct a particular issue. When it isn't, it is nearly impossible for me to have warm and fuzzies. Not saying that you are a faithful sheep or you have low standards or anything like that, just that we may go into the experience with a totally different set of expectations, which leads to different takes.

Although I am a HUGE College Football fan, I am a much larger NFL fan, and the games are too similar to get both in my opinion, so I focus on Madden anyway. So if the end product of retail Madden turns out better than the end retail product of NCAA, it wouldn't bother me at all. I hope you and those that have played the retail game are right, and that it gets much better than this.

No, I really, REALLY hope so lol.

I do agree with you , but I think what the telling part is, there are numerous game play issues to fix and which ones are addressed during the yearly cycle is anyone's guess until information starts to roll out.

I just don't feel everything can be fixed in one sweeping cycle, but that's just me, though.

Maybe things change once both games double the manpower in the game play department.

[Only1LT]

Re: Is madden building on a broken foundation?

I do agree with you , but I think what the telling part is, there are numerous game play issues to fix and which ones are addressed during the yearly cycle is anyone's guess until information starts to roll out.

I just don't feel everything can be fixed in one sweeping cycle, but that's just me, though.

Maybe things change once both games double the manpower in the game play department.

If things don't change after doubling man power, then something is most definitely wrong in that studio. No two ways about it.

My belief is that it will make a difference for the better though.

[Broncos86]

Re: Is madden building on a broken foundation?

If things don't change after doubling man power, then something is most definitely wrong in that studio. No two ways about it.

My belief is that it will make a difference for the better though.

That's a poor assumption though. More developers doesn't always translate to more success. As an example, Microsoft reduced the size of developers for Windows 7. A bloated development team can create fragmentation within the team, and you have trouble with collaboration and cohesive design.

[bucky60]

Re: Is madden building on a broken foundation?

You can't change the past, only learn from it. At this point, all you can do is be constructive and resourceful. Anyone who thinks calling out the devs is going to do any good will likely just find themselves banned from these forums (check the NCAA forum for recent forum rule updates).

You can't change the past, but the past is a good indicator of the future. And if the past has been highly disappointing, then you've learned to be skeptical of the future and rightly so, until the future can prove otherwise.