Madden NFL 12 Demo Available Now, Post Impressions Here (360, PS3)

[bkrich83]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Demo Available Now, Post Impressions Here (360, PS3)

Agreed. There are a lot of variables that come into play when you're trying to get realistic total plays per game. As you mentioned, the way gamers play is the main difference. I usually let the play clock tick down to 5 or 10 seconds left on almost every snap (unless in "hurry up", of course). I audible if I see the need and I make pre-snap adjustments accordingly. I've played against other who only use 3-4 seconds of the play clock total that just run with what ever play they call and never even put a WR in motion or nothing. Obviously, those who choose to play that way will get more offensive snaps that me. Especially, if the play the computer. Which throws in a whole new set of problems because from what I remember the CPU doesn't use the play clock or make any adjustments either.

Point is, just like with sliders, what is perfect for one person may be complete different for another person. Everybody's just has to basically figure out what's best for them.

Right for example I play at a much slower pace, so I think I played 10 minutes with a 15 second run off, to get the right number of plays.

[Lakers 24 7]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Demo Available Now, Post Impressions Here (360, PS3)

I think in this case stats can lie. As I said earlier play style and play calling style can certainly and do certainly skew a lot of statistics.

For example I was playing online the other day, and I was flushed from the pocket, I had no real play so I threw the ball away. The guy I was playing said "wow, that's the first time anyone has ever done that" Now honestly what percentage of most players do you think would have attempted to force a pass down the field? 95%, 100%? 3 or 4 plays like that, and stats certainly are out of whack.

That doesn't skew anything. The game should spit out realistic outcomes and data for the input variables. You being flushed out the pocket and throwing the ball away is a realistic outcome for the situation. Someone else deciding to force a bad pass, if it turns out to be incomplete would also be a realistic outcome.

Stats only become out of whack when the game doesn't produce realistic outcomes from user variables.

[bkrich83]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Demo Available Now, Post Impressions Here (360, PS3)

That doesn't skew anything. The game should spit out realistic outcomes and data for the input variables. You being flushed out the pocket and throwing the ball away is a realistic outcome for the situation. Someone else deciding to force a bad pass, if it turns out to be incomplete would also be a realistic outcome.

Stats only become out of whack when the game doesn't produce realistic outcomes from user variables.

I disagree. User variables certainly will skew stats. That's one of the first things the lead ai programmer for 2k5 told me. He's dead on.

[Lakers 24 7]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Demo Available Now, Post Impressions Here (360, PS3)

That logic makes no sense. If you want a game to be "realistic" and for whatever reason you can't run the ball due to skill level, shouldn't you be able to tweak it to achieve that "realism" you want to achieve.

It seems like people want it both ways here.

You can't say for whatever reason. If the running game is properly replicated but someone is bad at it because they can't follow blocks, practice patience, etc. Tough cookies. Nerfing the defense so it's easy for you to run doesn't make the game more realistic.

[bkrich83]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Demo Available Now, Post Impressions Here (360, PS3)

You can't say for whatever reason. If the running game is properly replicated but someone is bad at it because they can't follow blocks, practice patience, etc. Tough cookies. Nerfing the defense so it's easy for you to run doesn't make the game more realistic.

Sure it does, if statistical accuracy is their end game. Which for some folks it is.

Again everyone's perception of reality is quite different as is what they are looking for in making up that reality.

[bucky60]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Demo Available Now, Post Impressions Here (360, PS3)

The closest might have been NBA 2K11 in recent years but even that game required some tweaks or else FG% were off the charts

What I found with 2K11 is if you chose Sim Difficulty, you almost didn't have to touch any sliders. They pretty much nailed it. I made some small changes. Nothing like I have to do with Madden, and I never get there with Madden.

[Lakers 24 7]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Demo Available Now, Post Impressions Here (360, PS3)

I disagree. User variables certainly will skew stats. That's one of the first things the lead ai programmer for 2k5 told me. He's dead on.

It depends on how you're looking at. Obviously you get user vs user the game is never going to play out exactly how it would in real life, in terms of the score, rush attempts, who's thrown to, etc. As it shouldn't.

If someone wants to pass the ball 50 times a game, that's their right to do so. It doesn't happen often in real life, so in that sense the stats are skewed. But, what I'm talking about is the game simply producing a realistic outcome from that user variable. So if someone does throw 50 times in a game, theoretically what should happen. That's what the game needs to get right.

[bkrich83]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Demo Available Now, Post Impressions Here (360, PS3)

It depends on how you're looking at. Obviously you get user vs user the game is never going to play out exactly how it would in real life, in terms of the score, rush attempts, who's thrown to, etc. As it shouldn't.

If someone wants to pass the ball 50 times a game, that's their right to do so. It doesn't happen often in real life, so in that sense the stats are skewed. But, what I'm talking about is the game simply producing a realistic outcome from that user variable. So if someone does throw 50 times in a game, theoretically what should happen. That's what the game needs to get right.

But it depends on those 50 passes. Are they forcing the ball down the field. Are they throwing checkdowns. How are they playing.

If some guys throws 50 passes, all of them down the field and not where coverage dictates and he goes 12/50 for 275 yards and 6 picks with Peyton Manning, he's probably going to claim the game is unrealistic, despite the fact it was his own doing.

User interaction certainly has an affect on realism. There's no way around that.

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Demo Available Now, Post Impressions Here (360, PS3)

So what sliders are people playing with for this demo?

[northface28]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Demo Available Now, Post Impressions Here (360, PS3)

So what sliders are people playing with for this demo?

Im on All-Madden, I raised all human sliders to 50. Playing good for me.

[SaintsNATION32]

madden 12 way better than ncaa 12 glad i kept my $30 dollar coupon....will trade in ncaa for madden...asap!

[SaintsNATION32]

madden demo is better than ncaa retail!

[Lakers 24 7]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Demo Available Now, Post Impressions Here (360, PS3)

But it depends on those 50 passes. Are they forcing the ball down the field. Are they throwing checkdowns. How are they playing.

If some guys throws 50 passes, all of them down the field and not where coverage dictates and he goes 12/50 for 275 yards and 6 picks with Peyton Manning, he's probably going to claim the game is unrealistic, despite the fact it was his own doing.

User interaction certainly has an affect on realism. There's no way around that.

From a statistical perspective that wouldn't look right. From an outcome perspective that's absolutely realistic. That's why I'm trying to separate the two, they're different. You can't control how a user plays, but you can control how successful his tactics can be, and base that against what would or should happen in real life. Your example is perfect in that if Manning did play that way, that's exactly what would happen.

[bucky60]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Demo Available Now, Post Impressions Here (360, PS3)

But it depends on those 50 passes. Are they forcing the ball down the field. Are they throwing checkdowns. How are they playing.

If some guys throws 50 passes, all of them down the field and not where coverage dictates and he goes 12/50 for 275 yards and 6 picks with Peyton Manning, he's probably going to claim the game is unrealistic, despite the fact it was his own doing.

User interaction certainly has an affect on realism. There's no way around that.

Doesn't explain the CPU doing the exact same thing and getting the same stats. That's not user control. Remember, you as the user only control ONE person at a time and only on ONE team.

[bkrich83]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Demo Available Now, Post Impressions Here (360, PS3)

Doesn't explain the CPU doing the exact same thing and getting the same stats. That's not user control. Remember, you as the user only control ONE person at a time and only on ONE team.

I am not sure I follow.