Kurt Warner, Hall of Fame?

[XBox_Roughneck]

Re: Kurt Warner, Hall of Fame?

If Kurt wins today he gets my vote.

I'm hoping he doesn't win today.

[PrettyT11]

Re: Kurt Warner, Hall of Fame?

But they didn't. What's your point?

Besides, it wouldn't really diminish the great regular season he had this year - 4,600 yards, 30 TDs, 67% completion percentage, 96.6 QB rating, and being the MVP frontrunner through 3/4 of the season.

The point is how does TWO GAMES make you a discussion for Hall of Fame?? Especially when the best player on the field those two games was Fitz. Like I said before I am a big Kurt fan but if you look at his career there is nothing that says Hall of Fame about it. When I look at his career I see a guy who was great with the Rams and all world worthy but then you see a guy who played mediocre at best, was a BACKUP QB, and lost his job twice, and played for three teams. Before this season he wasn't a starting QB on a winning team in SEVEN years. I'm sorry but if SEVEN of your ten years in the league is mediocre at best then you are NOT a Hall of Famer.

Nobody thought of him as a Hall of Famer when he was stinking up the joint with Giants or when he was coming to the Cards to be Matt's backup. Nobody was calling him a Hall of Famer with the Cards when he was giving more tunovers than TD's. Then all of a sudden they make a SURPRISE run to the Super Bowl and he is all of sudden a Hall of Famer.

It wasn't but a couple of years ago when they thought his career was over cause he couldn't hold on to the ball. I guess everybody forgets that. I'm sorry but Hall of Famer don't get benched twice in favor of rookies and another time in favor of a youngster. Kurt Warner has had a good career not great. Hall of Fame QB's don't get benched for somebody else three different times on three different teams in their career.

[Chip Douglass]

Re: Kurt Warner, Hall of Fame?

The point is how does TWO GAMES make you a discussion for Hall of Fame?? Especially when the best player on the field those two games was Fitz. Like I said before I am a big Kurt fan but if you look at his career there is nothing that says Hall of Fame about it. When I look at his career I see a guy who was great with the Rams and all world worthy but then you see a guy who played mediocre at best, was a BACKUP QB, and lost his job twice, and played for three teams. Before this season he wasn't a starting QB on a winning team in SEVEN years. I'm sorry but if SEVEN of your ten years in the league is mediocre at best then you are NOT a Hall of Famer.

Find me a QB with 2 MVPs and 3 SBs appearances who didn't make it to the HOF. Hell, find me a player in any league who was named as that league's best player for 2 years who wasn't inducted into their league's HOF.

His career numbers:

- 2 NFL MVPs
- 93 QB rating, third highest in NFL history
- highest passing YPG in NFL history
- second highest completion % in NFL history
- Super Bowl MVP
- 3 SB apperances

I would consider that more than "two games" and his 4-5 year arc, which is very special, still compares favorably to other HOF QBs.

If Joe Namath, who ended his career on the bench in obscurity, is in the HOF, then Warner absolutely should be.

[z Revis]

Re: Kurt Warner, Hall of Fame?

The point is how does TWO GAMES make you a discussion for Hall of Fame?? Especially when the best player on the field those two games was Fitz. Like I said before I am a big Kurt fan but if you look at his career there is nothing that says Hall of Fame about it. When I look at his career I see a guy who was great with the Rams and all world worthy but then you see a guy who played mediocre at best, was a BACKUP QB, and lost his job twice, and played for three teams. Before this season he wasn't a starting QB on a winning team in SEVEN years. I'm sorry but if SEVEN of your ten years in the league is mediocre at best then you are NOT a Hall of Famer.

Nobody thought of him as a Hall of Famer when he was stinking up the joint with Giants or when he was coming to the Cards to be Matt's backup. Nobody was calling him a Hall of Famer with the Cards when he was giving more tunovers than TD's. Then all of a sudden they make a SURPRISE run to the Super Bowl and he is all of sudden a Hall of Famer.

It wasn't but a couple of years ago when they thought his career was over cause he couldn't hold on to the ball. I guess everybody forgets that. I'm sorry but Hall of Famer don't get benched twice in favor of rookies and another time in favor of a youngster. Kurt Warner has had a good career not great. Hall of Fame QB's don't get benched for somebody else three different times on three different teams in their career.

[Chip Douglass]

Re: Kurt Warner, Hall of Fame?

TNobody thought of him as a Hall of Famer when he was stinking up the joint with Giants or when he was coming to the Cards to be Matt's backup. Nobody was calling him a Hall of Famer with the Cards when he was giving more tunovers than TD's. Then all of a sudden they make a SURPRISE run to the Super Bowl and he is all of sudden a Hall of Famer.

Warner wasn't benched because "he was stinking up the joint." He was benched because of injury and politics. Both teams had just drafted a QB in the 1st round for millions of dollars. You think teams are going to want their meal tickets to sit on the bench? The Giants were actually 5-4 with Warner before they made the switch to Eli Manning, who only won 1 game for the rest of the season.

Go look up his QB ratings from '04 to '07.

[MassNole]

Re: Kurt Warner, Hall of Fame?

Find me a QB with 2 MVPs and 3 SBs appearances who didn't make it to the HOF. Hell, find me a player in any league who was named as that league's best player for 2 years who wasn't inducted into their league's HOF.

His career numbers:

- 2 NFL MVPs
- 93 QB rating, third highest in NFL history
- highest passing YPG in NFL history
- second highest completion % in NFL history
- Super Bowl MVP
- 3 SB apperances

I would consider that more than "two games" and his 4-5 year arc, which is very special, still compares favorably to other HOF QBs.

If Joe Namath, who ended his career on the bench in obscurity, is in the HOF, then Warner absolutely should be.

Wow looking at those stats blindly, I'd assume that is a HOFer. I was on the fence with Warner before this year, but not anymore.

[Chip Douglass]

Re: Kurt Warner, Hall of Fame?

It wasn't but a couple of years ago when they thought his career was over cause he couldn't hold on to the ball. I guess everybody forgets that. I'm sorry but Hall of Famer don't get benched twice in favor of rookies and another time in favor of a youngster. Kurt Warner has had a good career not great. Hall of Fame QB's don't get benched for somebody else three different times on three different teams in their career.

Joe Namath ended his career on the bench for the L.A. Rams. Unitas was a 3rd string QB at one point for the Steelers and ended his career in oblivion on the bench for the Chargers.

Are they not HOF worthy?

[Chip Douglass]

Re: Kurt Warner, Hall of Fame?

And he's wrong on nearly every point.

[snepp]

Re: Kurt Warner, Hall of Fame?

The funniest part of all of this is if they Cards would have lost to the Falcons we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

Except for the part about this discussion being had before the playoffs even starting.

[PrettyT11]

Re: Kurt Warner, Hall of Fame?

Warner wasn't benched because "he was stinking up the joint." He was benched because of injury and politics. Both teams had just drafted a QB in the 1st round for millions of dollars. You think teams are going to want their meal tickets to sit on the bench? The Giants were actually 5-4 with Warner before they made the switch to Eli Manning, who only won 1 game for the rest of the season.

Go look up his QB ratings from '04 to '07.

He was benched more for his performance that anything. Most rookie QB's don't start. It is prefered for them to sit the first year. They both were brought in for Kurt cause he was contantly turning over the ball and losing games. I guess those 12 fumbles and 8 turnover had nothing to do with him going to the bench with the Giants?? I guess those 10 fumbles and 5 picks in 5 games had nothing to do with him going to the bench for Matt?? He played in 07 cause Matt got put out for the year. Oh and I guess you forgot about 02 when he started the season with 1 TD against 7 picks and was bench for Bulger??

Joe Namath ended his career on the bench for the L.A. Rams. Unitas was a 3rd string QB at one point for the Steelers and ended his career in oblivion on the bench for the Chargers.

Are they not HOF worthy?

There is a difference between them and Kurt. Those guys where on the teams as backups not the starting QB then benched. Neither Namath or Unitas where even thought about as starters then. They just wanted to still play. Kurt was benched by those three teams. He came in the season as the starter and finished it on the bench.

[PrettyT11]

Re: Kurt Warner, Hall of Fame?

Except for the part about this discussion being had before the playoffs even starting.

Yeah but don't leave out the part about it being dead for a year and when it was active everybody but maybe 2 people said yes at that time. And again after it was brought back from the dead most again said NO. Then it died and wasn't brought back until this playoff run. Nice try.

[Chip Douglass]

Re: Kurt Warner, Hall of Fame?

Except for the part about this discussion being had before the playoffs even starting.

No kidding. He was the MVP of the league 3/4 through the season.

The talk started then and it's exploded now that he's taken the Cardinals of all teams to the SB.

[auburn387]

Re: Kurt Warner, Hall of Fame?

Hall of Fame QB's don't lose their starting job 3 times. Hall of Fame QB's don't get cut from their team twice. Hall of Fame QB's don't have just 5 winning seasons out of 11 total seasons being in the league. Hall of Fame QB's don't have a 5 year stretch in their career where they are nothing but mediocre.

[kcarr]

Re: Kurt Warner, Hall of Fame?

He was benched more for his performance that anything. Most rookie QB's don't start. It is prefered for them to sit the first year. They both were brought in for Kurt cause he was contantly turning over the ball and losing games. I guess those 12 fumbles and 8 turnover had nothing to do with him going to the bench with the Giants?? I guess those 10 fumbles and 5 picks in 5 games had nothing to do with him going to the bench for Matt?? He played in 07 cause Matt got put out for the year. Oh and I guess you forgot about 02 when he started the season with 1 TD against 7 picks and was bench for Bulger??


There is a difference between them and Kurt. Those guys where on the teams as backups not the starting QB then benched. Neither Namath or Unitas where even thought about as starters then. They just wanted to still play. Kurt was benched by those three teams. He came in the season as the starter and finished it on the bench.

Manning wasn't drafted because they didn't want kurt. He was drafted because he was supposed to be the next great QB. Lienert was somewhat the same situation plus yes, kurt was old at that point and they were looking for an eventual replacement. Note that both of these QBs were considered to be destined for greatness when drafted.

As for Warner only replacing lienert due to injury, yes this is when the replacement became complete but before that the coach had already been trying to get him into the game in any way possible playing him as a part time QB as he vastly outplayed lienert. The only reason he wasn't playing full time before lienerts injury was due to pressure on the coach from the front office and from the fan base wanting them to play their "superstar QB of the future" who I have always seen as a bust but that is beside the point.

[Chip Douglass]

Re: Kurt Warner, Hall of Fame?

He was benched more for his performance that anything. Most rookie QB's don't start. It is prefered for them to sit the first year. They both were brought in for Kurt cause he was contantly turning over the ball and losing games. I guess those 12 fumbles and 8 turnover had nothing to do with him going to the bench with the Giants?? I guess those 10 fumbles and 5 picks in 5 games had nothing to do with him going to the bench for Matt?? He played in 07 cause Matt got put out for the year. Oh and I guess you forgot about 02 when he started the season with 1 TD against 7 picks and was bench for Bulger??

His QB ratings from '04-'07:

86.5
85.8
89.3
89.8

You would consider that "stinking up the joint"? You think the owners for both teams would want their franchise projects to sit on the bench? There's a reason Eli Manning was handed the starting gig despite Warner's 86.5 QB rating and 5-4 record and it wasn't a lack of performance. The Leinart case isn't really an issue, since Warner has buried Leinart in the QB competition and has the job until his retirement.

Also, Warner was benched for Bulger after breaking his hand/finger for the second time.

I'm glad you avoided the original question though. Can you name a QB with 2 NFL MVPs and 3 SB appearances that wasn't inducted to the HOF?