Kurt Warner, Hall of Fame?

[z Revis]

Re: Kurt Warner, Hall of Fame?

His QB ratings from '04-'07:

86.5
85.8
89.3
89.8

Interesting. So when Warner posts these ratings, he's good. But when Manning does it in the Playoffs, he's a choker? Interesting logic there.

[Chip Douglass]

Re: Kurt Warner, Hall of Fame?

Interesting. So when Warner posts these ratings, he's good. But when Manning does it in the Playoffs, he's a choker? Interesting logic there.

I posted the following QB ratings to prove that Warner was far from "stinking the joint" while on the Giants and in his early years on the Cardinals.

Swing and a miss on your part.

[snepp]

Re: Kurt Warner, Hall of Fame?

Interesting. So when Warner posts these ratings, he's good. But when Manning does it in the Playoffs, he's a choker? Interesting logic there.

Your other five Colts/Manning threads are over there ----->

[PrettyT11]

Re: Kurt Warner, Hall of Fame?

His QB ratings from '04-'07:

86.5
85.8
89.3
89.8

You would consider that "stinking up the joint"? You think the owners for both teams would want their franchise projects to sit on the bench? There's a reason Eli Manning was handed the starting gig despite Warner's 86.5 QB rating and 5-4 record and it wasn't a lack of performance. The Leinart case isn't really an issue, since Warner has buried Leinart in the QB competition and has the job until his retirement.

Also, Warner was benched for Bulger after breaking his hand/finger for the second time.

I'm glad you avoided the original question though. Can you name a QB with 2 NFL MVPs and 3 SB appearances that wasn't inducted to the HOF?

Again you keep throwing out these QB ratings. You do know that fumbles don't count against your rating don't you?? So that doesn't tell the story about him having 12 fumbles in those 9 games and 8 turnovers. So yeah I call 12 fumbles and 8 turnovers in 9 games bad. It definantly isn't good.

As far as the Bulger thing goes. Yeah he broke his finger in 02 but came back and played bad and was put back on the bench. Then in 03 he was the opening game starter. He fumbled the ball SIX times that game and was then benched. So you can't blame 03 on anything but bad play cause he was healthy then.

The only reason Matt is buried on the bench now is because of this season. The past two years it was up in the air and Warner got the playing time last year cause of Matt's season ending injury. Warner was benched again Matt's rookie year.

The main reason why Warner isn't in the HOF in my book is cause of the shortness of his greatness. He got those MVP's at the start of his career and was great then. But you also have to count those years from 02 to 07 and those years were far from great. In my opinion four great years is not enough time to a hall of famer. That is suppose to be the elite of the elite and from 02 to 07 he was far from elite level play. You can call his benching whatever you want but the facts is if he would have played then like he is this year then there would have been no calling for Eli or Matt to play. They where calling for them to play cause Kurt was playing great football. Hell he wasn't even play good football. Simple as that.

[z Revis]

Re: Kurt Warner, Hall of Fame?

Your other five Colts/Manning threads are over there ----->

[auburn387]

Re: Kurt Warner, Hall of Fame?

His QB ratings from '04-'07:

86.5
85.8
89.3
89.8

why did you post his ratings from just 04-07? his mediocrity started in 2002, not 04.

[Chip Douglass]

Re: Kurt Warner, Hall of Fame?

why did you post his ratings from just 04-07? his mediocrity started in 2002, not 04.

Because the discussion started there. He wondered why Warner should be in the HOF when he was replaced by two rookie QBs.

I already quantified the Bulger situation in another post.

[PrettyT11]

Re: Kurt Warner, Hall of Fame?

Because the discussion started there. He wondered why Warner should be in the HOF when he was replaced by two rookie QBs.

I already quantified the Bulger situation in another post.

No actually I said he was replaced by THREE QB's. I just noted that two of those were rookies. I said he wasn't the QB of winning team in SEVEN years before this one. SO that goes back to 2002.

[snepp]

Re: Kurt Warner, Hall of Fame?

He was the quarterback of a winning Giants team when he was replaced by a very highly paid #1 overall draft pick that the team had to give up a king's ransom to acquire.

[Chip Douglass]

Re: Kurt Warner, Hall of Fame?

No actually I said he was replaced by THREE QB's. I just noted that two of those were rookies. I said he wasn't the QB of winning team in SEVEN years before this one. SO that goes back to 2002.

Nobody thought of him as a Hall of Famer when he was stinking up the joint with Giants or when he was coming to the Cards to be Matt's backup. Nobody was calling him a Hall of Famer with the Cards when he was giving more tunovers than TD's. Then all of a sudden they make a SURPRISE run to the Super Bowl and he is all of sudden a Hall of Famer.

This was the post I was referring to. There's no mention of Bulger.

Johnny Unitas, considered the greatest QB to ever play the game, couldn't even win the 3rd string job on the Steelers and was playing sandlot football at one point. He ended his career on the bench with the Chargers.

Using the "Warner was cut/benched by multiple teams" argument, is Unitas not a HOF?

[auburn387]

Re: Kurt Warner, Hall of Fame?

Using the "Warner was cut/benched by multiple teams" argument, is Unitas not a HOF?

You can't compare that. The game is WAY different than when Unitas played.

[PrettyT11]

Re: Kurt Warner, Hall of Fame?

This was the post I was referring to. There's no mention of Bulger.

Johnny Unitas, considered the greatest QB to ever play the game, couldn't even win the 3rd string job on the Steelers and was playing sandlot football at one point. He ended his career on the bench with the Chargers.

Using the "Warner was cut/benched by multiple teams" argument, is Unitas not a HOF?

Come on man lets be serious. He was FOURTY years old when he was put on the bench for the Chargers.

And I know you aren't comparing Warner to Unitas. Are you serious?? When Unitas retired he had just about every possible record there was for a QB. Plus he played in an running era not a passing one. Plus he has over 40,000 yards and 290 TD's. Numbers Warner will never see. 47 straight games with a TD. Another record that will probably stand forever. Plus his 3 MVP's(again more than Warner), 10 pro bowls( over 3 times as many as Warner), and 9 years all pro ( over 4 times as many as Warner). Please don't EVER mention Kurt Warner and Unitas in the same breath as a football player EVER again. That is just flat out stupid.

Edit--- I mention Bulger in at least two other post before that one.

[Rocky]

Re: Kurt Warner, Hall of Fame?

This was the post I was referring to. There's no mention of Bulger.

Johnny Unitas, considered the greatest QB to ever play the game, couldn't even win the 3rd string job on the Steelers and was playing sandlot football at one point. He ended his career on the bench with the Chargers.

Using the "Warner was cut/benched by multiple teams" argument, is Unitas not a HOF?

Except for the fact that Johnny Unitas had 14 years of dominance in the NFL before he got benched.

Kurt Warner had 4.

[Chip Douglass]

Re: Kurt Warner, Hall of Fame?

And I know you aren't comparing Warner to Unitas. Are you serious?? When Unitas retired he had just about every possible record there was for a QB. Plus he played in an running era not a passing one. Plus he has over 40,000 yards and 290 TD's. Numbers Warner will never see. 47 straight games with a TD. Another record that will probably stand forever. Plus his 3 MVP's(again more than Warner), 10 pro bowls( over 3 times as many as Warner), and 9 years all pro ( over 4 times as many as Warner). Please don't EVER mention Kurt Warner and Unitas in the same breath as a football player EVER again. That is just flat out stupid.

I actually wasn't comparing Warner and Unitas. I was using your own logic against you.

If a huge knock on Warner is his benching to multiple QBs and his release from multiple teams (which was more about politics than it was about performance), should it not apply to Unitas?

[PrettyT11]

Re: Kurt Warner, Hall of Fame?

I actually wasn't comparing Warner and Unitas. I was using your own logic against you.

If a huge knock on Warner is his benching to multiple QBs and his release from multiple teams, should it not apply to Unitas?

No considering Unitas was put on the bench by one team and that was at FOURTY years old. Kurt was benched by three different teams during a four year run. They are in no way comparable at all.

Plus I never said anything about being released that was somebody else. But again even those two are close to being comparable cause Unitas was released before his career really started. That was before he ever played a game or even made a team. Kurt was released after his MVP runs and was released by two different teams before this years run. So that combined with his benching and mediocre play have to count against him.

You keep talking about it was politics not play that got him on the bench.I might could go along with that if it only happened once but it happened on three different teams. You still haven't told me or anybody what was good about his 12 fumbles and 8 turnovers in those 9 games with the Giants. That is bad play. With the Cards again it was 10 fumbles and 8 turnovers in 5 games. That is bad play. The QB is suppose to protect the ball and lead the team. More fumbles and turnovers than games played is not good football.

Like I said before if he played those years like he is playing now he would have NEVER been put on the bench. You say politics all you want but fumbles and turnovers will put you on the bench before politics will. It funny there is no talk of Matt now but there was the past two years. You know what the difference is?? It was Warner playing good football instead of turnover and fumble football.