Official CBA Thread

[da ThRONe]

Re: Official CBA Thread

DeMaurice Smith continues to make the players and himself look less credbile - http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...from-de-smith/




They also make a point that I tried to make earlier, but much cleaner:

This articles prove nothing, but the author bias opinion. The only fact they made was a mistake by D. Smith saying the league was suing when they aren't and that's has absolutely nothing to do with case itself.

This guy doesn't believe that players deserve 50% of the revenue, but gave no legit reason. He had the nerve to call out the players because the overall revenue pool would mean more money even if they settle for less than 50%, but fail to mention the same thing goes for the owners. They will make more revenue in a 50-50 split. The owners aren't putting their bodies at risk, a lot of players are so beat up after their careers are over that NFL money has to last them a life time.

Also I don't care what the league has done from the ownership side this league was built on the backs of the players current and former. Once again they come off as the greedy old farts that believe because they OWN something means they OWN somebody. This isn't your typical employer-employee relationship this is much more a partnership and it should be a 50-50 split unless the owners can show solid financial reasons (through full disclosure) why that's a problem for the league.

I can't believe in a situation where guys phyiscal well being is this much in jeopardy, there are no guaranteed contracts and the average career is under 4years owners would risk losing many fans just to strong arm more money from the players it sad it really is.

[mestevo]

Re: Official CBA Thread

This articles prove nothing, but the author bias opinion. The only fact they made was a mistake by D. Smith saying the league was suing when they aren't and that's has absolutely nothing to do with case itself.

Has nothing to do with the case itself? Talk in absolutes and you're likely to be absolutely wrong. This man represents the players and has been their mouthpeice for the last 2 years. The man responsible for getting a new CBA done has nothing but rhetoric coming from his mouth whenever a microphone is offered to it. What he says has everything to do with this case itself. Even with the labor union dissolved they then filed a motion and added him to class counsel so he can continue to represent the class in the courtroom and in negotiations. He is a lawyer, and twice he's claimed the NFL is suing to not play football and there's no way to twist that as being an accurate statement.

This guy doesn't believe that players deserve 50% of the revenue, but gave no legit reason. He had the nerve to call out the players because the overall revenue pool would mean more money even if they settle for less than 50%, but fail to mention the same thing goes for the owners. They will make more revenue in a 50-50 split. The owners aren't putting their bodies at risk, a lot of players are so beat up after their careers are over that NFL has to last them a life time.

Also I don't care what the league has done from the ownership side this league was built on the backs of the players current and former. Once again they come off as the greedy old farts that believe because they OWN something don't mean they OWN somebody. This isn't your typical employer-employee relationship this is much more a partnership and it should be a 50-50 split unless the owners can show solid financial reasons (through full disclosure) why that's a problem for the league.

I can't believe in a situation where guys phyiscal well being is this much in jeopardy, there are no guaranteed contracts and the average career is under 4years owners would risk losing many fans just to strong arm more money from the players it sad it really is.

Aren't you contradicting yourself here, having it both ways? So the owners aren't worth getting more revenues while owning 100% of the risk of running a business for decades while people looking to voluntarily live their dream (and more often than not, the biggest paycheck) are by your own admission flash in the pan less-than-4-year players on average? The owners recognize more needs to be done, that's why the 3/11 offer planned to continue to increase the cap, included a rookie wage scale (which essentially increases the pool of money paid to veterans even more), changed offseason workout requirements, as well as those during the season to help prevent some of the wear and tear, extended contract guarantees in the event of injury, increased veteran player benefits 60%, among many other things.

Why are we getting these suggestions from the owners, instead of the players? Instead we get 'the NFL is suing to not play football', 'to the mattresses', 'worst deal of all time', and referring to this work stoppage as 'war'.

Who of those 2 parties looks to be trying to preserve the game that we all love, and who looks to just be saying whatever they can to polarize their base and keep them from cracking while the NFL succeeds in the courtroom the players dragged them into?

[xkevin]

Re: Official CBA Thread

Has nothing to do with the case itself? Talk in absolutes and you're likely to be absolutely wrong. This man represents the players and has been their mouthpeice for the last 2 years. The man responsible for getting a new CBA done has nothing but rhetoric coming from his mouth whenever a microphone is offered to it. What he says has everything to do with this case itself. Even with the labor union dissolved they then filed a motion and added him to class counsel so he can continue to represent the class in the courtroom and in negotiations. He is a lawyer, and twice he's claimed the NFL is suing to not play football and there's no way to twist that as being an accurate statement.



Aren't you contradicting yourself here, having it both ways? So the owners aren't worth getting more revenues while owning 100% of the risk of running a business for decades while people looking to voluntarily live their dream (and more often than not, the biggest paycheck) are by your own admission flash in the pan less-than-4-year players on average? The owners recognize more needs to be done, that's why the 3/11 offer planned to continue to increase the cap, included a rookie wage scale (which essentially increases the pool of money paid to veterans even more), changed offseason workout requirements, as well as those during the season to help prevent some of the wear and tear, extended contract guarantees in the event of injury, increased veteran player benefits 60%, among many other things.

Why are we getting these suggestions from the owners, instead of the players? Instead we get 'the NFL is suing to not play football', 'to the mattresses', 'worst deal of all time', and referring to this work stoppage as 'war'.

Who of those 2 parties looks to be trying to preserve the game that we all love, and who looks to just be saying whatever they can to polarize their base and keep them from cracking while the NFL succeeds in the courtroom the players dragged them into?

Even though i agree Smith is a problem here, the players are allowing him to do so. They can shut him up anytime they want to. That idiot Vrabel said so himself, that they can change who represent them if they needed to but they are not.

The problem here, mestevo, is that there is something else going on that we don't know about that the players are allowing this to go on. The players do not trust the owners and that is absolutely important for anything deal to be done. Something was said or had happen that the players are fighting this hard.

My problem with the NFL is that they are strong arming and raping everybody, the fans, the networks, the service providers (cable, satelite), advertisers, exclusive contracts and now they are going after the players. The only difference is that the players have or had collective bargaining power to fight back. We as fans can't really fight because I know that if I gave up my Saints season tickets. Other saints fans will grab them. We don't work as one, like the players can. Tv networks and others have the same problem as the fans.

I know that the players are not on our side in this fight because they are taking advantage of us as well but they relate to us far more than the owners do.

[da ThRONe]

Re: Official CBA Thread

Has nothing to do with the case itself? Talk in absolutes and you're likely to be absolutely wrong. This man represents the players and has been their mouthpeice for the last 2 years. The man responsible for getting a new CBA done has nothing but rhetoric coming from his mouth whenever a microphone is offered to it. What he says has everything to do with this case itself. Even with the labor union dissolved they then filed a motion and added him to class counsel so he can continue to represent the class in the courtroom and in negotiations. He is a lawyer, and twice he's claimed the NFL is suing to not play football and there's no way to twist that as being an accurate statement.

Him saying something that is factually wrong about one aspect that's not even the issue has nothing to do with the issues itself. The League may not be techinally sueing, but they are using legal moves to stop football and that's the point.

Aren't you contradicting yourself here, having it both ways? So the owners aren't worth getting more revenues while owning 100% of the risk of running a business for decades while people looking to voluntarily live their dream (and more often than not, the biggest paycheck) are by your own admission flash in the pan less-than-4-year players on average? The owners recognize more needs to be done, that's why the 3/11 offer planned to continue to increase the cap, included a rookie wage scale (which essentially increases the pool of money paid to veterans even more), changed offseason workout requirements, as well as those during the season to help prevent some of the wear and tear, extended contract guarantees in the event of injury, increased veteran player benefits 60%, among many other things.

Why are we getting these suggestions from the owners, instead of the players? Instead we get 'the NFL is suing to not play football', 'to the mattresses', 'worst deal of all time', and referring to this work stoppage as 'war'.

Who of those 2 parties looks to be trying to preserve the game that we all love, and who looks to just be saying whatever they can to polarize their base and keep them from cracking while the NFL succeeds in the courtroom the players dragged them into?

How are the owners trying to preserve the game when they opt out of the last CBA? The owners tactic is to come across as the "victim" and the "nice guys" after they put this whole thing in motion in the 1st place. If they were so concerned with "Preserving the game"(what a joke that is) they would have played out the current CBA. Just because the options to opt out was there didn't mean the owners had to exercise it.

The owner aren't putting up 100% of the risk when they are always looking for taxs payer to pick up bills left and right. Once again this business is nothing without the players nothing. When you factor in the are the reason these revenue are available in the 1st place a 50-50 split sounds fair to me. Once again neither sides are angels and cases can always be made for both sides. At the end of the day it's all about the money and it's the owners that's stopping play to get it. They have the "I'm taking my ball and going home" attitude.

It's funny your talking about player safety when it was the owners that was dead set on an 18 game schedule.

[mestevo]

Re: Official CBA Thread

Even though i agree Smith is a problem here, the players are allowing him to do so. They can shut him up anytime they want to. That idiot Vrabel said so himself, that they can change who represent them if they needed to but they are not.

The problem here, mestevo, is that there is something else going on that we don't know about that the players are allowing this to go on. The players do not trust the owners and that is absolutely important for anything deal to be done. Something was said or had happen that the players are fighting this hard.

My problem with the NFL is that they are strong arming and raping everybody, the fans, the networks, the service providers (cable, satelite), advertisers, exclusive contracts and now they are going after the players. The only difference is that the players have or had collective bargaining power to fight back. We as fans can't really fight because I know that if I gave up my Saints season tickets. Other saints fans will grab them. We don't work as one, like the players can. Tv networks and others have the same problem as the fans.

I know that the players are not on our side in this fight because they are taking advantage of us as well but they relate to us far more than the owners do.

The only rights players have are to leave the class, hire their own counsel and file their own lawsuit. There is no replacing anybody.

Market conditions dictate the prices the NFL are able to command and you'll be hard pressed to find a TV broadcaster complaining as the NFL breaks it's own records year after year and now broadcast the most watched television programs in the world.

[xkevin]

Re: Official CBA Thread

Market conditions dictate the prices the NFL are able to command and you'll be hard pressed to find a TV broadcaster complaining as the NFL breaks it's own records year after year and now broadcast the most watched television programs in the world.

The NFL gave an exclusive deal to Direct TV for NFL Sunday Ticket then went to court to try to force cable providers to put NFL Network where they want it to go when the Cable providers didn't want to A) put the NFL Network on at all because of not getting the NFL Sunday ticket or B) put the NFL Network in the regular cable lineup instead of in sport package. In other words the NFL wanted to have their cake and eat it too.

Let me repeat what I said one more time. The NFL went to court to try to force cable providers to do what they wanted.

The NFL gave NBC the premier night show with flex scheduling to take good games from other networks.

I shouldn't have to mention the exclusive contract for video games to EA do I.

How about PSLs?

[wco81]

Re: Official CBA Thread

There will be a breaking point for TV contracts.

If they make the Sunday Ticket package expensive enough, they'll lose enough fans that no TV provider will pay what the NFL is asking.

I think the NFL Network airing games may be an indication that no network was willing to pay for the late-season Thursday Night packages.

Now that all of the networks except ABC have NFL games, there isn't the same competitive situation which will bid up the TV contract. ABC is using ESPN as proxy so if ABC got the MNF rights back, then ESPN pays less for its rights.

Since they're owned by the same company, ESPN and ABC won't compete against each other for that package.

[skydog71]

Re: Official CBA Thread

How do you really know if a 50-50 split is fair? If a team's revenue is $300 million and operating expenses are $151 million, owners would effectively lose money with a 50-50 split.

[wco81]

Re: Official CBA Thread

Owners declined to show their books so the players are suppose to take the owners' word that they can't make money.

In the NFL.

The most lucrative sport in the country, maybe the world.

[da ThRONe]

Re: Official CBA Thread

How do you really know if a 50-50 split is fair? If a team's revenue is $300 million and operating expenses are $151 million, owners would effectively lose money with a 50-50 split.

Well if that's the case why don't the owners open up the books and say "See we need a larger percent"?

[wco81]

Re: Official CBA Thread

Goddell getting booed at the NFL draft might be an indication of whether the fans believe the owners or the players.

[xkevin]

Re: Official CBA Thread

Goddell getting booed at the NFL draft might be an indication of whether the fans believe the owners or the players.

I don't think the fans are necessarily siding with the players. The fans have been getting hosed by the NFL for years, it just that the NFL is now trying to hosed the players. The fans may have little more sympathy for the players because of that.

[mestevo]

Goddell getting booed at the NFL draft might be an indication of whether the fans believe the owners or the players.

Most fans are ignorant of what's going on and/or don't care and just want football.

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

[da ThRONe]

Re: Official CBA Thread

Most fans are ignorant of what's going on and/or don't care and just want football.

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

While you will get no arguement that most fans are just ignorant about these things what they think is important though.

[skydog71]

Re: Official CBA Thread

Well if that's the case why don't the owners open up the books and say "See we need a larger percent"?

That's a fair point, but at the same time, that's a pretty strong request. I can't think of an example where an employee has ever forced an employer to open their books. Granted, the NFL is a special case with their monopoly on professional football talent and antitrust exemption, so the players aren't your typical employees... but they can't really expect the owners to completely open the books. That's just not going to happen. Maybe partially open them to an arbitrator, but that's about it. I believe the owners have already offered to do that.