Official Denver Broncos Thread

[Jonsco28]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

I totally agree that he has to transition into that type of a QB - eventually. I read that as you expected him to do that right away. Right now, Tebow playing from the shotgun and running the ball is the essence of Tebow. If you take that from him and force him into a purely pro-style offense, he will fail. It doesn't make any sense to me to tailor your game plan to suit your back-up QB.

I'd like to see the Broncos let him do what he is comfortable with at this time and I believe the game will begin to slow down for him. Hopefully from there he will continue to improve. If he makes it, the QB he is today is not the QB he will be at the end of his career.

I was encouraged by what I saw yesterday. Tebow played much better, as did the rest of the team. I'm not too concerned about Tebow's passing stats. Right now, he just needs to be effective. Yesterday he was.

[Broncos86]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

There's a reason QBs with great legs often struggle as passing QBs. If you're not a mobile QB, then you need to rely on a quick release to avoid pressure. Which means if you're successful, you're making reads and hitting your receivers.

If you're the kind of QB who has great success running with the ball, then you don't have to rely on that quick release and reads. In college, you can just take off and gain 20 yards. That's the problem with Tebow.

I'm not expecting Tebow to magically become a pocket passer. But he needs to show gradual improvement in those areas. If he continues to run for 110+ yards a game, he's not improving in the key areas to make that crucial transition. It means he's still relying on his legs (and the coaches don't trust him to throw it quite so much). As we go along, those designed runs need to disappear and be replaced with passing plays. And when he takes those passing plays and converts, he'll deliver a message that he's making that transition. It's a message that says "I don't have to run, because I'll do more damage with my arm."

That's why, when I look at the Raiders game, I don't see the improvement I want. Hey, good game by Tebow as an athlete. And he did hit some throws, as well as bought himself some time as a starter. Next week, I'd like to see 200 yards passing and maybe 50 yards rushing. And I'd like to see more and more plays from under center.

[Jonsco28]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

Yeah, I get all that. Baby steps, though. It's going to take time. Perhaps it will never happen. I liked what I saw out of him on Sunday.

I could make an argument that Tebow is more likely to get hurt throwing from the pocket right now than he is running the ball. He's taking a beating back there. At least when he runs, he has the opportunity to protect himself. When throwing, he's left exposed. Plus, he's not exactly a China doll. He's a big kid. I hope he keeps doing his thing. The rest will hopefully come.

[Broncos86]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

Right now, Tebow is able to bruise his way through for the same reason Willis McGahee is having success at his age: mileage. Tebow hasn't played since week 1. Willis McGahee hasn't been carrying load for a team for several years. His body can sustain the beating.

And Tebow is getting hit in the pocket due to his own indecision and holding onto the ball for far too long. He's going through a learning process that most QBs endure during their first years in college.

[Jonsco28]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

I actually think Denver is going to expand on what they were doing on Sunday with that read-option run. It will be interesting to see where they go with it. It doesn't bother me. Tebow might get injured, sure, but all players run that risk on any given play. I don't think you are going to see Tebow in a pro-style office for quite some time. He's probably going to end up taking 75% or more of the snaps in shotgun. I like it - play to his strengths.

If Tebow is successful, his game will evolve.

[Broncos86]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

We'll just have to agree to disagree. The shotgun is the complete opposite of why we brought John Fox in. I think we're going to see more continued blitzes, with either a blitzing QB spy or a player told to go after Tebow regardless. I'm curious to see, and I wonder if KC will be a good barometer. Honestly, I see the current offense as John Fox saying "screw it, I just want to win and keep my job through this year. I'll do whatever I can to win right now."

[Jonsco28]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

Yeah, KC will be interesting. I will be totally disappointed and appalled if they come out and try to run the same thing again (unless it works). I think this whole thing is going to be a rollercoaster ride for awhile. Nobody knows how this is going to playout.

I can't believe I am saying this, but I'm rather tired of all the media attention that the Broncos get. It's the way it is, though, with 15 on the roster.

I hear and read all the stuff on Fox. It would be interesting to know how he truly feels about going forward with Tebow. There is no doubt in my mind he would go a more conventional route if that option was there (no pun intended), as Tebow is anything but conventional. I don't buy for a minute that he is trying to sabotage the kid; this just isn't what he really wants to do. That attempted congratulatory Tebow hug from Fox after Denver scored on McGahee's last TD run was a little telling.

Even if Denver lost the remainder of their games, do you think Fox's job would be in danger? I don't. Not this year. I would hope that they would realize that they need to establish some sort of stability within the coaching staff - especially defensive coordinator. Build on schemes instead of starting over every year. That hurts.

I know about Fox's pedigree, but I do find it amusing that they go 4-12, fire their coach, and turn around and hire the coach from the only team that finished worse than they did.

[Broncos86]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

Hiring coaches can be tricky. Bill Parcells had a mediocre run with Air Force before leading the Giants to glory. Bill Belichick wasn't very successful in Cleveland. John Fox had to deal with Jimmy Clausen as a rookie, last year, and very little talent. Right after they fired John Fox, the organization picks up a bunch of talent. John Fox wasn't really involved in personnel acquisitions. Sometimes the situation and personnel don't match up well for a coach.

Regarding John Fox and his approach to this year, I think you're seeing the difference between a veteran coach and an inexperienced coach like Josh McDaniels. McD's approach was very rigid. He had a system, and that system was was going to sink or swim. McD did very little to alter his game plan. In contrast, Coach Fox is taking what he has in order to win. That's the coach's job; win ball games. He's not concerned with next year's draft order, or putting Tebow on the field and setting him up to fail within a rigid system. If Tebow can't do something right now, Coach Fox won't ask him to do it.

[Jonsco28]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

I actually like the Fox hire - especially after the McDaniels disaster. It was a safe hire to try to get the franchise back on track. I actually think Fox may have seen something on Sunday to maybe make him believe this could work. The funny thing is that they won the game how he likes to win - on the ground. They just didn't do it in the conventional manner that he envisioned. Oakland was being pushed around at the end of that game. They were tired and done. It was beautiful to watch.

I think this unconventional approach is good for Denver and it will make them exciting to watch. Fox's typical approach is a no-frills offense that focuses on ball control while the defense plays for field position. I think there is a legitimate chance he can get that out of Tebow while letting Tebow sprinkle in a few highlight plays that can turn games.

[Broncos86]

A game of regression for Tebow as a franchise QB. Fine win as an athlete, but this was NOT good for Tebow in the long run. No tape to review on his reads. Nothing. Just college read options. Mechanics? Nothing. Just a couple long balls, most which were ugly ducks.

For Tebow's future, to have games like this is more evidence he's not progressing. We should see MORE passes, not less. Eight attempts? With two completions (one was a screen), this was a telling game.

Defense rocked, Miller is a beast. Rest of the team did well. Nice team win.

[Salhus]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

A game of regression for Tebow as a franchise QB. Fine win as an athlete, but this was NOT good for Tebow in the long run. No tape to review on his reads. Nothing. Just college read options. Mechanics? Nothing. Just a couple long balls, most which were ugly ducks.

For Tebow's future, to have games like this is more evidence he's not progressing. We should see MORE passes, not less. Eight attempts? With two completions (one was a screen), this was a telling game.

Defense rocked, Miller is a beast. Rest of the team did well. Nice team win.

I saw a Broncs team that can compete for the division. Tebow was garbage, but the core of the team played really well. Which is more important. I think a playoff of berth would obviously be a great accomplishment this year

[Broncos86]

I saw a Broncs team that can compete for the division. Tebow was garbage, but the core of the team played really well. Which is more important. I think a playoff of berth would obviously be a great accomplishment this year

Not a chance. We've fooled a few teams. But remember when teams figured out McDs scheme? After 6-0, we were crushed. You cannot keep winning like this. You need balance. The Chiefs were close, and if their offense wasn't horrid, they win this game. Teams will this option junk out and force Tebow to beat them with his arm.

I do agree that we have talent.

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

At the end of the day though, Tebow has a record of 3-1 as the starter this year (not saying he's the reason for the win, just stating that the Broncos are 3-1 with him and 1-4 with Orton), and Tebow had what, 9 TDs to 1 or 2 turnovers in those 4 games? That's pretty damn good.

[Broncos86]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

At the end of the day though, Tebow has a record of 3-1 as the starter this year (not saying he's the reason for the win, just stating that the Broncos are 3-1 with him and 1-4 with Orton), and Tebow had what, 9 TDs to 1 or 2 turnovers in those 4 games? That's pretty damn good.

But look at WHY! WHY do you people keep looking at those stats so blindly?! He's been running a wild cat / read-option offense. In the Chiefs game, he was 2 for 8! When your only throws are go routes and screens, your chances for interceptions go WAY down. You might as well have praised Ronnie Brown for not throwing interceptions while he ran Miami's wild cat plays.

Step back for just one second, quit blindly looking at wins, and take a look at what Tebow is doing. You're going to praise him for turnovers? The coaches are specifically placing him into a position where he can't turn the ball over. And where other young quarterbacks are throwing picks and learning from the experience and understanding how coverage in the pros works, Tim Tebow is learning how to run the read-option in the pros.

Tebow led wins against Miami, Oakland, and KC. TERRIBLE teams. Tebow was completely ineffective against Miami until Miami decided to play prevent defense and allow Tebow wide open windows. Oakland was caught off-guard by a gimmick offense. KC was just too pathetic to stop the gimmick offense, and their own offense fell flat on their faces.

Tebow is, again, doing things with his LEGS. And we're to praise his wins as a quarterback? No, I don't think so. Kudos to Tebow as an athlete. As a quarterback, his performances have been of a failing grade. I'll remind you, he made EIGHT passing attempts against KC. He was capable of completing two (one was a screen pass).Within the third quarter, the broadcast actually put up a statistic of the last time a team won without completing a pass.

When Tim Tebow starts leading the Broncos with his arm, I'll praise the victory as his. In three starts, this year, Tebow has had only one or two drives where he successfully sustained passes.

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

But look at WHY! WHY do you people keep looking at those stats so blindly?! He's been running a wild cat / read-option offense. In the Chiefs game, he was 2 for 8! When your only throws are go routes and screens, your chances for interceptions go WAY down. You might as well have praised Ronnie Brown for not throwing interceptions while he ran Miami's wild cat plays.

Step back for just one second, quit blindly looking at wins, and take a look at what Tebow is doing. You're going to praise him for turnovers? The coaches are specifically placing him into a position where he can't turn the ball over. And where other young quarterbacks are throwing picks and learning from the experience and understanding how coverage in the pros works, Tim Tebow is learning how to run the read-option in the pros.

Tebow led wins against Miami, Oakland, and KC. TERRIBLE teams. Tebow was completely ineffective against Miami until Miami decided to play prevent defense and allow Tebow wide open windows. Oakland was caught off-guard by a gimmick offense. KC was just too pathetic to stop the gimmick offense, and their own offense fell flat on their faces.

Tebow is, again, doing things with his LEGS. And we're to praise his wins as a quarterback? No, I don't think so. Kudos to Tebow as an athlete. As a quarterback, his performances have been of a failing grade. I'll remind you, he made EIGHT passing attempts against KC. He was capable of completing two (one was a screen pass).Within the third quarter, the broadcast actually put up a statistic of the last time a team won without completing a pass.

When Tim Tebow starts leading the Broncos with his arm, I'll praise the victory as his. In three starts, this year, Tebow has had only one or two drives where he successfully sustained passes.

Regardless of all this, it's really interesting to watch because everyone is expecting Tebow to fall flat on his face, but the guy has made enough throws to put up points.

16 TDs in 8 games where he's played a decent amount of time, and 18 TDs in 9 games if you count the one where he played about 5 snaps against the Chiefs last year and still scored twice. 16 TDs in 8 games (plus a 2 point conversion and a dropped 2 point conversion that would have tied the Chargers game) compared to 4 INTs and 1 fumble lost. 16 TDs to 5 turnovers. That's damn good. In games where he's thrown the ball at least 20 times (5 games), he has 10 TDs to 4 INTs and over 265 yards per game. Again, that's a good thing. His accuracy is very sporadic, but the guy has simply made a lot of plays in a limited amount of time. Statistically, he's been the best QB from his rookie class by a large margin when he's actually played. Yes, his completion percentage sucks, but he doesn't turn the ball over and he scores points. Attempting 8 passes in an entire game is most likely not going to work in the NFL, but it's what was working yesterday. At the same time, the Broncos have a winning record when he throws the ball at least 20 times and the Broncos have scored nearly 24 points per game in those games as well.