Official Denver Broncos Thread

[Broncos86]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

I don't know about the any other QB goes down. Through the first three quarters on 3rd down I don't believe Ben got touched.

As I said before with Peyton if he can get early scores and let Von and Dumervil pin their ears back ( a la Mathis and Freeney) we will be better on 3rd down.

Double moves against our linebackers hurt both on 3rd downs and in the red zone.

Imagamer - We will....welcome aboard.

In the third quarter, I took note of at least three instances where guys had him, and Ben shed them off like nothing, scrambled, and completed a pass. Either way, though you're certainly right about Von and Dumervil and we saw a glimpse of what could happen when our defense can go into pure pass rush mode.

[Jonsco28]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

Manning is back and it's awesome. I am very happy with the outcome, but I am still bothered by what I am seeing out of the defense on third down.

IMO, Denver needs to change their mindset. Devensively, they got themselves in several ideal third-and-longs, only to give them up because they quit being aggressive and doing what got them into that position. They are built to rush the passer, and yet on third down they only rush three (sometimes four). Who cares if you blitz and get burned once in a while? You are giving up huge chunks anyway because you are playing conservative. Understand that you have Peyton Freakin' Manning on the other side of the ball, not Tebow or Orton. If you give up a big play, the game isn't out of reach.

It wasn't all bad, and I am not entirely upset with the defense. They held the Steelers to under 20 points and they did make plays when they had to have it. I'd really like to see the defense just go after it earlier in the game. Create some turnovers, get some huge sacks. If you give up a few big plays, no big deal, you have a guy who can answer.

[Broncos86]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

I have to disagree, Jonsco. What you saw on third down was essentially what Ben Rothlisberger will do. He extended the play, got out of the pocket, and made the throw. One of those long drives would've been finished had it not been for the helmet-to-helmet call (which was iffy IMO). It was 3-and-out otherwise.

It's frustrating, but that's what Rothlisberger does. He's so big, it's difficult to sack him. He sheds tackles like a duck sheds water, then defenses have to respect the fact that he's now running and suddenly a WR sneaks free. And as I said before, I believe if that was someone else in the pocket, the QB gets dropped more. Guys like Von Miller had their hands on Big Ben several times, but the guy is just so big that it takes a real solid tackle to bring him down. A 6'5", 260 lb QB isn't typically that mobile either. Imagine how pissed off defenses were back in the day when Elway would throw several guys off of him, then make some cross-field throw?

And bear in mind, yes, on several downs we only sent 4 rushers, but we blitzed plenty. Von Miller was pressuring quite a bit. I disagree that we were conservative on defense, FAR from it. And yeah, during the game, it was irritating to see the defense get beat on third down. BUT, they did plenty to keep us in the game and then came up with the big play. THAT is the most encouraging. It appears we have a CB opposite of Champ Bailey who is up to the task. Porter broke up some BIG plays.

[Jonsco28]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

Whatever. Totally disagree with that. He did what he did because they would back off and play passive when they ought to be pinning their ears back and bringing it. Look at what happened once they started bringing more than four. He had no time. He would slide and someone was there. Bring three or four and he has room and time to extend the play. That's what he did.

[Broncos86]

Actually, when we blitzed, he scrambled and made plays. That's what actually happened. He's a hard QB to sack. It wasn't until the very end that we really got him, due to us being in pass defense w/o worry of run-defense.

I'm not going to sweat 19 points allowed in week 1 against a QB like Ben Rothlisberger. Especially since our run-defense looked really good. Week 1, with a new defensive coordinator, there will be some tweaks.

[TRC]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

Great game! It's so refreshing to see Denver score points again and show that they have quick strike capability.

However, I felt like Del Rio could have done more with the blitz on the Steelers' third and longs. Denver gave up 11/16 3rd down conversions... that is a horrible stat that needs to change FAST. Wasn't the plan all along to turn Doom and Miller loose on the opposing QBs once they generated a decent lead???

I agree that Big Ben is a very difficult QB to sack as evidenced last night. But if you contain him in the pocket from the edges he would have nowhere to run. He tends to hold the ball too long and that should've created more sacks for Denver.

I do believe that Del Rio will tweak the D this week. They will have to get pressure on Ryan so that Jones and White don't kill them. Denver DBs did well against Wallace and Brown... so that bodes well. But they MUST get off the field on 3rd down next week if they want to beat the Falcons.

Overall, a great game! I am very excited for this season. I think the rest of the AFC West was put on notice.

[Broncos86]

TRC, the plan is certainly to unleash them once we get the lead. Problem was, we never really lead until late.

You may have noticed that for a good chunk of the game, the Steelers used quick passing to negate our blitzes.

Also, Ty Warren is gone for the season.

[Jonsco28]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

Yes, he did on a few. But they also sacked him a few times to kill drives. Most of the third-and-longs that they picked up were do in large part to an ineffective three or four man rush. Plus, Pittsburgh's line was weak and I really thought Denver would try to exploit that.

As far as unleashing them when they are ahead....What if you are never ahead? Why not apply pressure to help you get ahead? You can't get the lead if you can't stop the other team on third down. I just wish they would play to their strengths and come after the quarterback. That was my main point. You have Manning. You don't have to be conservative all of the time. Take some chances on defense. That's how you create turnovers, which is something Denver has been horrible at for a long time.

Ben was 11/15 on third down. That's crazy. He's an elite QB, but come on... you have to try something different if you aren't getting it done with how you are doing it. This rushing three BS doesn't work. You have two studs that are supposed to be premiere pass rushers...use them. Plus you have Porter and Bailey in the secondary to take advantage of poorly thrown balls and mistakes by the QB. I would be okay with this complacent rush while they dropped guys back in coverage...if it worked, but it hardly ever does. Denver does not have the personnel to generate an effective three or four man rush. I would like to see them bring the heat and force the QB to make a quick decision.

I am happy they won, and like I said earlier, they gave up less than 20 and they came through when they had to have it. I just hope they have a different approach when they go to Atlanta. So many good things can come from a pass rush. You might get bit once and a while, but throw in some sacks and turnovers and I think you'll end up ahead.

[Broncos86]

It's week 1, man, give it a bit. We just beat a good team.

[TRC]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

Broncos86, I think that I am more in agreement with Jonsco here.

Yes, early in the game Pittsburgh negated the blitz with short passes. How does that justify NOT blitzing on 3rd and 18, 14, 11, etc??? Rushing 3 is basically a "prevent defense" that does nothing more than allow for a duo of great receivers, Wallace and Brown, and a fine TE in Miller to get open. Blitz on those downs with the D keeping everything in front of them and make Ben throw the quick, short pass. Then the D gets Manning back on the field.

I am just saying that Denver's D needs to be more aggressive in those situations. They now have a pair of great CBs as well as pass rushers. Use them!!!

That is a bummer about Warren.

[Broncos86]

That's cool, I'm just saying: it's one game. If this were game 4 and it has happened every game, I'd share your POV.

[Jonsco28]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

It's week 1, man, give it a bit. We just beat a good team.

I am concerned because this is nothing new with Denver. They have a history of this. I get it in the past...they couldn't afford to fall behind.

They now have the luxury of gambling a bit now because of who they have on the other side of the ball.

Did you watch the Bengals / Ravens game tonight? The Ravens are brutal with their pass rush; they force turnovers and get sacks. They are nasty. They just take it. Denver needs a bit of that. Quit being so complacent.

[Jonsco28]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

Yes, early in the game Pittsburgh negated the blitz with short passes. How does that justify NOT blitzing on 3rd and 18, 14, 11, etc??? Rushing 3 is basically a "prevent defense" that does nothing more than allow for a duo of great receivers, Wallace and Brown, and a fine TE in Miller to get open. Blitz on those downs with the D keeping everything in front of them and make Ben throw the quick, short pass. Then the D gets Manning back on the field.

I am just saying that Denver's D needs to be more aggressive in those situations. They now have a pair of great CBs as well as pass rushers. Use them!!!

Exactly.....

[Broncos86]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

If we didn't have seven DCs in seven years, I might give you something. But we've had every single kind of DC philosophy come in here. We've seen both the 4-3 and 3-4. We've seen DCs who blitz every down, and we've seen conservative DCs. So really, we've seen everything under the sun. So when you bring up history, I have to point to these facts.

Our problem has been a total lack of consistency at that position. Every year, and our defense has to learn a new scheme, new terminology, and adjust to a new philosophy. Can you believe that since arriving in Denver, Champ Bailey has only had one DC last more than one year (Larry Coyer). Nevermind getting deeper into one scheme and mastering it. Every year, our defense has to reinvent stuff and learn how to talk the scheme's language. In some instances, guys are switching positions and learning new responsibilities. Robert Ayers, lose weight and learn the LB position. No wait, nevermind, gain it back and put your hand on the ground. Dumervil, you as well.

I think Jack Del Rio is a pretty darn good coach, I just really hope the guy sticks around for several years. I just want him to get a chance to put his finger prints on the defense and allow it to form an identity. So yeah, it's week one with ANOTHER new defensive coordinator, and we faced off against a healthy Ben Rothlisberger and only allowed 19 points and even snagged a pick-six.

Is that me just apologizing? If that's what ya'll want it to be. But I've been a coach and an athlete, and I can tell you that this stuff matters a great deal to how players perform. And I think ignoring what I just said is to ignore reason and logic and would greatly discredit a lot of what football is about.

[Jonsco28]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

My bad. I keep forgetting that you know everything.