Official Denver Broncos Thread

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  • The JareBear
    Be Good To One Another
    • Jul 2010
    • 11560

    #2971
    Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

    I think they went with Moreno simply because, kinda like what I was eluding too, Ball just doesn't represent any threat. Moreno is the all around better player in almost every single category. If you know a guy can only block well and not do much else, that kinda makes it easy.

    I completely understand the idea of "mixing it up" but quite frankly that logic clearly was flawed as when it mattered most, it failed. Sometimes coaches get too fancy for their own good. We are probably just going to have to disagree about this one. Whether they know he's coming or not, if its the playoffs and I'm up by 7 with a minute left I'm sending him every time. He's the best pass rusher in the league. I don't have the stats in front of me but I know the defense was markedly better when he was rushing than not. I'm not saying I think he should move to end and put his hand in the dirt every play, but let your players play.

    I do agree with what you said about Elvis. I was on vacation in SD when that move happened and my friends were flipping out as if they just cut Manning or something. You look on paper and see double digit sacks but consistent pressure is just as important as sacks and they don't realize that Elvis disappeared numerous times im big games. They lost a solid player but not an irreplaceable one by any means.

    Here's a question for y'all. Am I the only one who honestly felt that not only was Chris Harris the best CB on the the Broncos last year, but he deserved to be in Pro Bowl? Regardless of having Champ on the other side, Harris played his butt off every week and I was insanely impressed, routinely, by his relatively consistent stellar play.

    Also, does anyone else agree that D.T. might be an elite athlete but not yet an elite WR? His stats were very nice, and he's got a special combo of size, speed, strength, but the little things like route running, playing the ball in the air, dropping a few too many easy ones (Decker as well in this regard), sideline/field position awareness, those kind of things are still heavily in development and still somewhat lacking?
    Last edited by The JareBear; 06-26-2013, 02:06 AM. Reason: I'm on an ipad please excuse typos
    "Successful people do not celebrate in the adversity or misfortune of others."

    OS Blog

    The Tortured Mind Of A Rockies Fan. In Arenado I Trust.

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    • Jonsco28
      Bob Loblaw
      • Sep 2008
      • 1057

      #2972
      Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

      Originally posted by jaredlib
      Here's a question for y'all. Am I the only one who honestly felt that not only was Chris Harris the best CB on the the Broncos last year, but he deserved to be in Pro Bowl? Regardless of having Champ on the other side, Harris played his butt off every week and I was insanely impressed, routinely, by his relatively consistent stellar play.

      Also, does anyone else agree that D.T. might be an elite athlete but not yet an elite WR? His stats were very nice, and he's got a special combo of size, speed, strength, but the little things like route running, playing the ball in the air, dropping a few too many easy ones (Decker as well in this regard), sideline/field position awareness, those kind of things are still heavily in development and still somewhat lacking?
      I really like Harris, as well as Tony Carter. Both of those guys made plays last year. That was extremely refreshing because Denver's secondary hasn't had that in forever. After last year (mostly after the bitter loss to Baltimore and Champ's performance), I thought that Harris would be moved to starting CB, but they seem content to keep him in the nickel CB package. I suppose that's just fine, because I believe they are in their nickel the most out of any defensive package. I saw an article where Harris was rated as the highest bang-for-your-buck guy in the league. No doubt.

      I agree with your comments about DT (and Decker). I think they are both a little behind in development because of the prior QB situation (Orton and Tebow...mostly Tebow). Last year was kind of a break-out year. I'd look for DT to have a monster season this year, despite all of the weapons that Manning has at his disposal. He's just an absolute beast. One thing is for sure: they are going to light it up on offense.

      Comment

      • Broncos86
        Orange and Blue!
        • May 2009
        • 5505

        #2973
        Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

        Originally posted by jaredlib
        Here's a question for y'all. Am I the only one who honestly felt that not only was Chris Harris the best CB on the the Broncos last year, but he deserved to be in Pro Bowl? Regardless of having Champ on the other side, Harris played his butt off every week and I was insanely impressed, routinely, by his relatively consistent stellar play.

        Also, does anyone else agree that D.T. might be an elite athlete but not yet an elite WR? His stats were very nice, and he's got a special combo of size, speed, strength, but the little things like route running, playing the ball in the air, dropping a few too many easy ones (Decker as well in this regard), sideline/field position awareness, those kind of things are still heavily in development and still somewhat lacking?
        Harris played fine, but he wasn't anywhere near what was needed to get into the pro bowl. At best, he was matching up against the opposition's #2 WR, and often times merely taking the slot. To go to the pro bowl as a CB, you need to on par with the absolute best. Harris is not that. He showed promise and stability, but I wouldn't trust him taking on the opposition's top WRs quite yet. Champ is still better than Harris.

        D.T. has to prove he can stay healthy. He's had one season (last year) where he played the whole year. It's understandable why his rout-running might not be what it can be. He runs a lot of sideline routes. He's spent so much time rehabbing. That being said, with a full year under his belt, I'm excited to see what he can do given his stellar productivity last year.

        Did Decker and D.T. drop too many easy ones last year? I wouldn't say so. Every receiver is going to drop a ball here and there, even easy ones. It happens (though it's frustrating). But I don't see either player as having issues with their hands. I think they had couple years where they couldn't perform as well, due to horrendous passing. But last year, both performed well. D.T. was in the top 5 in many categories. Both had over 1,000 yards receiving. Decker was 2nd in the league in TD receptions. D.T. struggled, early in the year, with fumble issues, but he corrected the issue and we never saw the problem again.

        Hard for me to knock on that at all. Yes, having Peyton Manning throw the ball is a huge boost. But if you're not open, if you can't catch, Manning will NOT throw the ball to you.

        Comment

        • gr18
          MVP
          • Sep 2007
          • 2309

          #2974
          Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

          I read an article where they felt Chris Harris is the most underrated player in the league.I'm not sure but he was very impressive last year and hopefully.will continue progressing.

          Thomas is a physical beast and while he drops a few easy ones there's very few receivers I'd rather have considering his age and upside.Calvin Johnson,Julio Jones,A.J. Green........

          Decker has very good hands and just needs a little more consistency but is still a good receiver like a Jordy Nelson for example.He's a good #2 that won't get to a #1 level.That's fine.

          Comment

          • The JareBear
            Be Good To One Another
            • Jul 2010
            • 11560

            #2975
            Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

            What do you guys feel a safe projection is for Montee this year, stat wise?
            "Successful people do not celebrate in the adversity or misfortune of others."

            OS Blog

            The Tortured Mind Of A Rockies Fan. In Arenado I Trust.

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            • NateDogPack12
              Go Pack Go!!
              • Jul 2011
              • 1271

              #2976
              Montee Ball is a wild card. On one hand, Fox hates using rookie runningbacks and the offense is Peyton Manning pass heavy. On the other hand, Ball is probably the most talented back on the Bronco roster, more so than Moreno and Hillman. I'll say he gets opportunity, but it's backfield by committee and his numbers aren't pristine.

              474 yards rushing, 3.8 YPC, 5 TD's.
              XBOX Series X Gamer Tag: Alsbron

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              • Broncos86
                Orange and Blue!
                • May 2009
                • 5505

                #2977
                Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

                Originally posted by NateDogPack12
                Montee Ball is a wild card. On one hand, Fox hates using rookie runningbacks and the offense is Peyton Manning pass heavy. On the other hand, Ball is probably the most talented back on the Bronco roster, more so than Moreno and Hillman. I'll say he gets opportunity, but it's backfield by committee and his numbers aren't pristine.

                474 yards rushing, 3.8 YPC, 5 TD's.
                Keep in mind the Broncos released McGahee specifically because of how Montee Ball was performing in camp. With Welker here, we're going to see a lot of 3-wide sets, but I won't surprised to see Montee Ball get around the 900 yard - 1000 yard mark (provided he stays healthy).

                Honestly, the question mark in my head is going to be Ronnie Hillman. If Montee Ball is a good three-down back, Hillman may find himself begging for carries. Hillman may end up with more receiving yards than rushing yards.
                Last edited by Broncos86; 06-27-2013, 08:24 AM.

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                • Jonsco28
                  Bob Loblaw
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 1057

                  #2978
                  Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

                  Originally posted by NateDogPack12
                  474 yards rushing, 3.8 YPC, 5 TD's.
                  Who knows, but I would think those yardage numbers are low. I've heard that Ball looks very polished and mature for his age. Plus he is getting extra attention from Manning. I see Ball shouldering more and more of the load as the season progresses, and it wouldn't surprise me either if he eclipsed 1000 yards this year.

                  Comment

                  • Broncos86
                    Orange and Blue!
                    • May 2009
                    • 5505

                    #2979
                    Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

                    Yup, exactly. Hard for me to imagine that our first string back gets only 400-ish yards in the year.

                    Comment

                    • The JareBear
                      Be Good To One Another
                      • Jul 2010
                      • 11560

                      #2980
                      Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

                      Originally posted by Broncos86
                      Keep in mind the Broncos released McGahee specifically because of how Montee Ball was performing in camp. With Welker here, we're going to see a lot of 3-wide sets, but I won't surprised to see Montee Ball get around the 900 yard - 1000 yard mark (provided he stays healthy).

                      Honestly, the question mark in my head is going to be Ronnie Hillman. If Montee Ball is a good three-down back, Hillman may find himself begging for carries. Hillman may end up with more receiving yards than rushing yards.
                      Interesting point on Hillman. It definitely might get tough for him to see carries if Ball is effective and Moreno isn't fumbling
                      "Successful people do not celebrate in the adversity or misfortune of others."

                      OS Blog

                      The Tortured Mind Of A Rockies Fan. In Arenado I Trust.

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                      • NateDogPack12
                        Go Pack Go!!
                        • Jul 2011
                        • 1271

                        #2981
                        Don't underestimate Fox's loathing for rookie backs. Just look at the history. You guys know your football team better than me, but I don't think Ball will be the primary back. I think they'll rotate him in, but it'll be Moreno and Hillman in my opinion.

                        If Fox does use Ball, I think it's because Elway probably forced his hand.
                        XBOX Series X Gamer Tag: Alsbron

                        Comment

                        • Broncos86
                          Orange and Blue!
                          • May 2009
                          • 5505

                          #2982
                          Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

                          Originally posted by NateDogPack12
                          Don't underestimate Fox's loathing for rookie backs. Just look at the history. You guys know your football team better than me, but I don't think Ball will be the primary back. I think they'll rotate him in, but it'll be Moreno and Hillman in my opinion.

                          If Fox does use Ball, I think it's because Elway probably forced his hand.
                          I think you're being quite a bit overdramatic with this "Fox hates rookies" thing. I also think it's silly to think that Elway would force John Fox's hand on something like this. Moreno, while a fine back, cannot be counted on to be there for the entire year. If you give him the load, he will get hurt. Last year was a prime example of what happens when you put too much on injured running backs. Once Moreno went down with an injury against Baltimore, our running game was dead.

                          Moreno is best used as a third down back, or to spell Montee Ball. You don't draft a running back in the 2nd round and not plan to use him as a primary back. Especially when you decide to cut your most veteran running back. The moment M. Ball was drafted, McGahee knew he was out the door. He said it himself.

                          Bear in mind that Moreno is only 25 years old. He's only three years older than Montee Ball. If the Broncos felt that Moreno was a running back they could count on and build upon, they wouldn't have spent a 2nd round draft pick on a running back. Certainly not on a back who is considered a strong downhill back; the kind of back John Fox likes. He wants a strong back who will get him yards and be durable. That's Montee Ball. Moreno barely made the roster last year.

                          If Moreno carries the ball as the #1 back, he won't last past week 7. His knees won't hold up. Montee Ball needs those reps, because one way or another he's going to be our primary back in the playoffs. I'd prefer if he knew the gameplan properly and learned from his mistakes early in the year, not late in the year.

                          Don't get me wrong, I actually like Knowshon Moreno. I think he has talent. But he's damaged goods. Every knee injury is lost speed, quickness, and power. It also adds to the chances the knee will get blown up again. You just cannot put your running game on that. John Fox will know that very well. It's why Montee Ball is working closely with Manning.

                          Comment

                          • gr18
                            MVP
                            • Sep 2007
                            • 2309

                            #2983
                            Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

                            Originally posted by NateDogPack12
                            Montee Ball is a wild card. On one hand, Fox hates using rookie runningbacks and the offense is Peyton Manning pass heavy. On the other hand, Ball is probably the most talented back on the Bronco roster, more so than Moreno and Hillman. I'll say he gets opportunity, but it's backfield by committee and his numbers aren't pristine.

                            474 yards rushing, 3.8 YPC, 5 TD's.
                            Not trying to be a smart*** and I've always liked the Packers,probably my 2nd favorite team,but what's your projection for Lacy.You have the same situation with Rodgers at qb and the Packers haven't been used to having a decent halfback.That is provided he stays healthy which is a very big if for Lacy and you did draft Franklin as well.

                            I personally think Franklin will be more productive due to injury.

                            Comment

                            • gr18
                              MVP
                              • Sep 2007
                              • 2309

                              #2984
                              Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

                              Peyton Manning has played in an offense where even though he was putting up prolific numbers the Colts also had the leagues leading rusher in Edgerrin James.

                              Even Joseph Addai hit 1000 yards twice,his first two seasons, and over 800 at least one other time I believe.

                              I highly doubt in a predominately 3-wide set Ball will be under 4 yards a carry.

                              I would project over 600 passing attempts but Ball will likely get at least 200 carries if healthy and I believe that would get him at least 850 yards.I don't think Hillman will get more than 100 carries and I'm not sure Moreno has a place or will stick necessarily.I like him right now only as feature back insurance because Hillman isn't that if something were to happen to Ball.
                              Last edited by gr18; 06-27-2013, 07:09 PM.

                              Comment

                              • kehlis
                                Moderator
                                • Jul 2008
                                • 27738

                                #2985
                                Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

                                Originally posted by NateDogPack12
                                Don't underestimate Fox's loathing for rookie backs. Just look at the history.
                                When did he ever had a rookie run back to worry about while Peyton Manning is under center.

                                Edit: Hillman doesn't count as a counter to this example lol.
                                Last edited by kehlis; 06-27-2013, 06:44 PM.

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