Official Denver Broncos Thread

[wwharton]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

What exactly is his history of being a hot head?

Let me start by saying this is the Broncos thread, and any criticizing and debating I'd rather not do here b/c I don't think it's fair to you Bronco fans. This should be your safe haven to be as homeristic as you want. Now, with that said, in the Rivers vs Cutler war, Cutler has shown his immaturity on more than one occasion imo. I'm not going to go back to pull up examples so it's fine if you disagree. His actions when Shanahan and the OC were let go was also hot headed. He's been doing a lot of talking to the media as if this is HIS team... all the way to comparing his arm to Elway (I believe he said it was better).

I guess it's easy for Bronco fans to disagree with this, but I don't understand what is to agree with McDaniels about. I can somewhat understand why he would want a QB he is familiar with, but to come to Denver and think it would be acceptable to trade a potential franchise QB for ANYONE else, is ludicrous.

You have to remember, this is a city who has been looking for someone to replace Elway ever since he left. I'm not saying Cutler is there at all, but he has the potential to be.

And that explains the difference in thinking. Many are stuck on the idea that McDaniels came in set to bring in Cassel and show Cutler the door. That doesn't even make sense. As someone said before (either here or the other thread), I don't see him taking the job if he doesn't think he can win with Cutler. What does make sense (to me) is that the Pats were going to try to unload Cassel before the season starts, and they'd try to push a deal with the person that knows him best. It also makes sense that the Broncos front office would look at the deal, before saying thanks but no thanks. Like you said, we don't know the particulars but it's not a stretch to think the Pats pulled the trigger on another deal before the Broncos had a chance to say no thanks b/c they already knew it was a long shot.

All of that is consistent with everything McDaniels and the ownership have said through this whole thing.

I do think he should tell Cutler this team will be built around him. It has been for the last couple years.

Cutler has not handled this right, I would agree with that. But if his quotes are true, McDaniels doesn't seem to want him there. McD is being stubborn because he wanted to come in and change EVERYTHING. I have no problem with him coming in and changing schemes, changing philosophies. But I DO have a problem with him coming in and trying to get rid of who has been the face of the franchise over the last couple years.

If this were about talent level, I would be okay with it, but if anyone can say that Cassell or whatever QB we end up with after this ordeal, will make the Broncos better off than they were with Cutler, I would say you are out of your mind.

Not one of us really knows what has gone on behind doors, and to me it seems like a big pissing match. But I don't see how this situation could have been handled any worse by either side.

Honestly, the team has been built around Culter for the last few years and the team hasn't been very good. They almost won the division last year but also hovered around .500 last year... and had a historical collapse last year. They fired one of the most respected coaches/GMs in the NFL b/c the direction they've taken the last few years hasn't been working. Again, I think Cutler is incredibly talented and think he should remain a Bronco but when the team is trying to tweak things to take a step forward, the last thing a new coach should do is make any promises about a team being built around any one player or that any one player can't be traded. I'm sure Bronco fans thought Portis couldn't be traded... Bailey was the best corner in the NFL when you got him so you'd expect he's untradeable too, right? No player is untradeable. Yes, it should take some insane offer to get them to even consider moving Cutler, but they'd be doing themselves a disservice to not look at offers to see if that insane offer comes across the table.

[av7]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

Let me start by saying this is the Broncos thread, and any criticizing and debating I'd rather not do here b/c I don't think it's fair to you Bronco fans. This should be your safe haven to be as homeristic as you want. Now, with that said, in the Rivers vs Cutler war, Cutler has shown his immaturity on more than one occasion imo. I'm not going to go back to pull up examples so it's fine if you disagree. His actions when Shanahan and the OC were let go was also hot headed. He's been doing a lot of talking to the media as if this is HIS team... all the way to comparing his arm to Elway (I believe he said it was better).

And that explains the difference in thinking. Many are stuck on the idea that McDaniels came in set to bring in Cassel and show Cutler the door. That doesn't even make sense. As someone said before (either here or the other thread), I don't see him taking the job if he doesn't think he can win with Cutler. What does make sense (to me) is that the Pats were going to try to unload Cassel before the season starts, and they'd try to push a deal with the person that knows him best. It also makes sense that the Broncos front office would look at the deal, before saying thanks but no thanks. Like you said, we don't know the particulars but it's not a stretch to think the Pats pulled the trigger on another deal before the Broncos had a chance to say no thanks b/c they already knew it was a long shot.

All of that is consistent with everything McDaniels and the ownership have said through this whole thing.

Honestly, the team has been built around Culter for the last few years and the team hasn't been very good. They almost won the division last year but also hovered around .500 last year... and had a historical collapse last year. They fired one of the most respected coaches/GMs in the NFL b/c the direction they've taken the last few years hasn't been working. Again, I think Cutler is incredibly talented and think he should remain a Bronco but when the team is trying to tweak things to take a step forward, the last thing a new coach should do is make any promises about a team being built around any one player or that any one player can't be traded. I'm sure Bronco fans thought Portis couldn't be traded... Bailey was the best corner in the NFL when you got him so you'd expect he's untradeable too, right? No player is untradeable. Yes, it should take some insane offer to get them to even consider moving Cutler, but they'd be doing themselves a disservice to not look at offers to see if that insane offer comes across the table.

I know I'm fine with you posting in here Wwharton, you aren't trolling to get a rise out of any Bronco fans and bringing up good points.

The one problem this brings up, how can you keep a disgruntled QB (on contract) and have him play? I'm sure they'll try to mend the relationship one last time but if that doesn't work, he's got to go since you can't force anyone to play. Clayton (ESPN ) says Cutler's value for picks is a 1st, 2nd, and a 3rd round pick.. which we dont want, we need a QB in the package.

Apparently the Broncos are going to try and get Cutler to talk one on one with McDaniels this week and if it doesn't happen, then they'll start entertaining offers at the owner's meeting.

Alot of fans (despite what you've seen around here) are flabbergasted at what McDaniels has done. Not just the Cutler saga, but believe it or not, also the long snapper. Mike Leach has come up with the signing of Paxton who's making more than Leach.. still dont understand that when Leach was one of the best in the game. I think McDaniels did come to Denver for Cutler but got his hand caught in the cookie jar when Patriots went to the Chiefs. The one thing I get so tired of hearing from callers is "the offense was 2nd in the league". True but that was yards, and we were 16th in scoring.. we're by no means locked in on offense, we still have room for improvement.

Part of Shanahan's downfall was the musical chairs of bringing in DCs for no more than 2 year stints. Larry Coyer should have stayed, which I have to laugh at.. the thought that our defense was "bad" then, when now... holy hell. Mike Nolan needs to stay 3 years, we have no identity. I think the 3-4 will be pretty nice, its a new system for everyone to learn and its starting from scratch here.

Edit- Peyton Hillis is ahead of schedule with his torn hamstring. Should be ready for training camp and the regular season.

[wwharton]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

I'm on the same page when it comes to the problem you have now. I'd even say it's possible the trade offer was considered more b/c it seemed Cutler was disgrunted before that even came up, but that's not a definite. And there's still the thought that he and his agent have been doing all of this in hopes for a new contract anyway b/c he's due to make so little this year.

With that said, I'm not backing McDainels on a whole. You've got a much better sense of all the other moves he's made so far and what that looks like for the franchise. One thing I see as good is he seems to plan on using schemes similar to NE with the RBs which has been effective and doesn't appear to stray too far from the way Denver has operated with RBs before. I can't tell what he's doing with the defense besides bringing Nolan in, but that alone is pretty big... not sure if that was McDaniels or the owner.

[Salhus]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

I don't think the Broncos are a better team if they trade Jay either... and it doesn't sound like McDaniels thinks so either. I don't see him being stubborn about it. He, and the organization seems to be trying to reach out to Cutler in every way short of saying "You'll never be traded." He should say "I shouldn't have evaluated trade offers." I completely disagree with that. If someone sent a trade offer for Peyton Manning, they should at least look at it. The end result will be a rejection 99.9% of the time but they would look at it. Cutler needs to wake up. Kiffen may not have tried to acquire anyone but if someone sent him an offer, I'd bet anything that he'd at least look at the offer... and wouldn't apologize to Russell for doing so.

Ok. I guess it all boils down to what really happened. The impression I got was that Jay was originally upset because he thought he was lied to.

Wouldn't it be ok for McDaniels to say something along the lines of "You'll never be traded."? Because, it seemed that McDaniels didn't want to trade Jay, rather, he wanted to acquire Cassell. Now that the oppurtunity is long gone, something like this shouldn't happen again.

[wwharton]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

Ok. I guess it all boils down to what really happened. The impression I got was that Jay was originally upset because he thought he was lied to.

Wouldn't it be ok for McDaniels to say something along the lines of "You'll never be traded."? Because, it seemed that McDaniels didn't want to trade Jay, rather, he wanted to acquire Cassell. Now that the oppurtunity is long gone, something like this shouldn't happen again.

That's what Jay says. Cutler swears up and down that the Broncos initiated the offer(s) to bring in Cassel but do you remember him ever saying where he got that idea from? I don't. I remember hearing both McDaniels and the owner go into great detail to explain that it isn't true. Cutler's response? They're lying... that's it. After multiple attempts they finally get Cutler to sit down and talk (but not without his agent even though McDaniels wanted a one on one) and it seems that b/c McDaniels didn't say "we'll never trade you" Cutler is telling reporters that it's clear that McDaniels still wants to bring his guy in. Sorry, it's just very hard for me to believe anything Cutler says when the other side is clear, consistent and detailed and Cutler's side is vague, seems to have anger behind it and follows similar patterns to a high school argument you'd have with your girlfriend.

McDaniels shouldn't say Cutler will never be traded unless he can be 100% sure that statement's true and there's no way he can be 100% sure of that. It doesn't have anything to do with him wanting Cassel which I personally don't think he ever did (besides the fact that he'd be the best option if Cutler were to leave which he's been throwing hints at wanting to since Shanahan was fired). It may be the best decision down the road based on Cutler's salary; or if he has a severe injury; or they may get lucky with a Tom Brady like 6th round pick (or even Rivers like pick that got Brees traded) and trade Cutler for a great player at another position. Who knows what the future holds? Why should McDaniels potentially lie to Cutler b/c he's acting like a baby? He said "We have no interest in trading you but no player is untouchable." That's exactly what he should say.

[Salhus]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

That's what Jay says. Cutler swears up and down that the Broncos initiated the offer(s) to bring in Cassel but do you remember him ever saying where he got that idea from? I don't. I remember hearing both McDaniels and the owner go into great detail to explain that it isn't true. Cutler's response? They're lying... that's it. After multiple attempts they finally get Cutler to sit down and talk (but not without his agent even though McDaniels wanted a one on one) and it seems that b/c McDaniels didn't say "we'll never trade you" Cutler is telling reporters that it's clear that McDaniels still wants to bring his guy in. Sorry, it's just very hard for me to believe anything Cutler says when the other side is clear, consistent and detailed and Cutler's side is vague, seems to have anger behind it and follows similar patterns to a high school argument you'd have with your girlfriend.

Cutler had no motive whatsoever to lie. The Broncos do. The Broncos got caught with their hand in the cookie jar and had to cover their tracks. Once it was evident that the way to go was to come clean, they did. I fully understand why Cutler would be mad about that.

[Hammerhunker]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

Cutler had no motive whatsoever to lie. The Broncos do. The Broncos got caught with their hand in the cookie jar and had to cover their tracks. Once it was evident that the way to go was to come clean, they did. I fully understand why Cutler would be mad about that.

With all due respect, I totally disagree. If management initiated the talks, that is their business and Cutler has no right to be publicly upset. If management said they didn't initiate the talk, then Cutler should have taken it as the truth and moved on. I think this whole situation truly exposes the character of Jay Cutler. He is a prima donna that is becoming a cancer. I am disgusted as a Broncos fan of 41 years that this situation is even happening.

I will say it again if it has been said, did you see Elway throw a fit when management initiated talks with the Washington Redskins regarding a trade?

[wwharton]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

Cutler had no motive whatsoever to lie. The Broncos do. The Broncos got caught with their hand in the cookie jar and had to cover their tracks. Once it was evident that the way to go was to come clean, they did. I fully understand why Cutler would be mad about that.

I disagree with everything you just said so I guess there isn't much more to talk about.

I will say this, I don't think Cutler is lying. I think he's overreacting big time and reading into things because he believes something that he has no proof of (you have none either btw... anything anywhere show that Broncos initiated any trade talks besides Cutler? Did Cutler ever give any indication of where he got that from... how he knows what he thinks is true? No, he's just throwing temper tantrums).

[av7]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

I disagree with everything you just said so I guess there isn't much more to talk about.

What're you talking about? We can now sit and discuss how each team is making a serious push for Cutler with popsicle sticks and we should hear a press conference at 5pm EST.

[wwharton]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

Come on, you know you like Campbell and Cooley for Cutler and Scheffler rumor.

BTW, that's a real rumor, though the Skins brass has said they have no interest in Cutler and it's only a rumor... it is funny that everyone's coming out of the woodwork with crap offers.

[Salhus]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

I disagree with everything you just said so I guess there isn't much more to talk about.

I will say this, I don't think Cutler is lying. I think he's overreacting big time and reading into things because he believes something that he has no proof of (you have none either btw... anything anywhere show that Broncos initiated any trade talks besides Cutler? Did Cutler ever give any indication of where he got that from... how he knows what he thinks is true? No, he's just throwing temper tantrums).

This is not a win-able debate.

It was pointless for you to say I have no proof. I know I don't. You don't either. Nobody outside does. It's all sources and he-said she-said.

[Salhus]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

With all due respect, I totally disagree. If management initiated the talks, that is their business and Cutler has no right to be publicly upset. If management said they didn't initiate the talk, then Cutler should have taken it as the truth and moved on. I think this whole situation truly exposes the character of Jay Cutler. He is a prima donna that is becoming a cancer. I am disgusted as a Broncos fan of 41 years that this situation is even happening.

I will say it again if has been said, did you see Elway throw a fit when management initiated talks with the Washington Redskins regarding a trade?

I don't think I would say Cutler has no 'right.' I think management has a right to do what it wants and so does Cutler.

But, you are right that it does show Cutler's character and how immature he really is.

[Hammerhunker]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

I don't think I would say Cutler has no 'right.' I think management has a right to do what it wants and so does Cutler.

But, you are right that it does show Cutler's character and how immature he really is.

And I agree with you that this is an unwinnable debate. Who knows what happened.

Now above, I hope you saw the word "publicly" with no right. I imagine Elway was pissed when he heard he was being shipped, but he kept it quiet and out of the press. That is the way Cutler should have handled it as well.

[Salhus]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

And I agree with you that this is an unwinnable debate. Who knows what happened.

Now above, I hope you saw the word "publicly" with no right. I imagine Elway was pissed when he heard he was being shipped, but he kept it quiet and out of the press. That is the way Cutler should have handled it as well.

I understand what you mean by publicly.

The big difference in this whole situation is that management kept their actions in house and Cutler did not.

[wwharton]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

This is not a win-able debate.

It was pointless for you to say I have no proof. I know I don't. You don't either. Nobody outside does. It's all sources and he-said she-said.

My point is your entire point of view is based only on what Cutler said. But not even Cutler gave any clue to why he thinks they lied. Did someone tell him they initiated the trade talk? What reason does he have to believe McDaniels actively tried to bring Cassel in and ship him out? If I were going to put all my eggs in his basket, these would be important questions for me.

McDaniels immediately said he didn't initiate any trade talks. Media outlets everywhere talked about how and why the offers came in. Every meeting with the coach, GM and owner was based around a trade they all said (in detail) they didn't offer or pursue, and most importantly, didn't happen.

I can't tell you who to believe. But you wonder why the owner is firmly behind his new coach (he's been on the call between them that Cutler claims went a different way). You have to wonder why McDaniels would agree to the job if he didn't plan on coaching Cutler. Everything makes perfect sense unless you believe what Cutler says which makes no sense at all.