Washington Redskins Official Thread

[wwharton]

Re: Washington Redskins Official Thread

I'm saying statistics such as yards, TDs, and INTs could be lies.

A 30-17 record isn't a lie.

All stats can be a lie depending on how they're presented. I don't need to explain how yards, tds, etc can be manipulated (since that's your point anyway) but the record alone is no different. Especially in the ULTIMATE team sport. VY was not 30-17, the Titans were. If they were 17-30 we also couldn't say that was bc of VY and I don't think you or Jarodd would. The record shouldn't be ignored but neither should the other numbers. They're all part of his resume.

This was said about McNabb when they brought him in last year and we all seen how that turned out.

And the biggest issues said about McNabb was that he bucked the system (went against the plays to improvise), couldn't learn the playbook, and isn't good at the quick read type of system. These are all things history says VY would struggle with.

I can see about 9-10 wins with VY. They lost alot of close games that VY might of pulled off.. I could be wrong but I believe he's the right fit for them.

And you'd be dreaming. So you're basically saying VY is a better QB than McNabb with that statement, right?

[Jarodd21]

Re: Washington Redskins Official Thread

This was also said about McNabb as well(who I don't think many would argue is a better QB than BY)and even he couldn't do that, especially behind THAT O-Line, which is still in limbo or not much better than last year's either.

But I'm with Rob on this one in that I'm curious as well.

Grossman came in and played better then McNabb last year. Like someone else said I believe McNabb's heart wasn't in Washington because I have never seen him play that bad. Can't wait to see him bounce back because I definitely believe he has a few good years left in him. While I think McNabb is better then VY he actually played better then McNabb last year.

[wwharton]

Re: Washington Redskins Official Thread

For the same reason ZB9 said because Shanahan likes utilize the bootleg and VY would be perfect for that and I believe they will utilize all of VYs strengths. Shanahan also liked VY coming out of college so he obviously felt VY fits his system and thats probably why there interested in him. I hope he ends up there because this will be a nice topic to discuss again..

McNabb is a perfect bootleg QB. What are VYs strengths? What are the specifics you're talking about them using?

Do you know why Kyle may have liked VY coming out? ZB said he was at UTexas which could be a reason. VY has been a legend in Texas since HS so picking him in Houston would make fans happy. There are plenty of reasons he may have liked him back then that had nothing to do with football. And at the end of the day, they went the unconventional route and took a DE instead of VY which is a pretty strong statement about how they really felt about him.

[Jarodd21]

Re: Washington Redskins Official Thread

And you'd be dreaming. So you're basically saying VY is a better QB than McNabb with that statement, right?

Has nothing to do with him being a better QB then McNabb. I don't think Grossman is better then McNabb and he came in and played better. So whats your point? We'll just have to see what happens if he ends up there.

[Jarodd21]

Re: Washington Redskins Official Thread

McNabb is a perfect bootleg QB. What are VYs strengths? What are the specifics you're talking about them using?

Do you know why Kyle may have liked VY coming out? ZB said he was at UTexas which could be a reason. VY has been a legend in Texas since HS so picking him in Houston would make fans happy. There are plenty of reasons he may have liked him back then that had nothing to do with football. And at the end of the day, they went the unconventional route and took a DE instead of VY which is a pretty strong statement about how they really felt about him.

I don't know why you keep mentioning McNabb. Your stuck on what McNabb did in Philly. The McNabb I saw last year was terrible. I wasn't even talking about Kyle but your right about that too. I was actually talking about the Mike.

[wwharton]

Re: Washington Redskins Official Thread

Grossman came in and played better then McNabb last year. Like someone else said I believe McNabb's heart wasn't in Washington because I have never seen him play that bad. Can't wait to see him bounce back because I definitely believe he has a few good years left in him. While I think McNabb is better then VY he actually played better then McNabb last year.

You really don't know what you're talking about here. Grossman didn't play better than McNabb. Grossman was about the same in a smaller sample size. McNabb had his share of big yardage games and his overall stats weren't as horrible as it's been made to believe. And on a per game basis, the only thing VY really did better than McNabb was TD/INT ratio, and having 10 TDs in 9 games is nothing to brag about. I know you like the guy but we gotta be real.

[N51_rob]

Re: Washington Redskins Official Thread

Would you please expand on this belief? What about the skins offensive system and personnel lead you to believe that? What are VY's strengths that you think this system would showcase? Not being smug, but I would really like to hear why you think that.

For the same reason ZB9 said because Shanahan likes utilize the bootleg and VY would be perfect for that and I believe they will utilize all of VYs strengths. Shanahan also liked VY coming out of college so he obviously felt VY fits his system and thats probably why there interested in him. I hope he ends up there because this will be a nice topic to discuss again..

Can you please let me know what those strengths are?

You've basically said, running bootleg plays. Are they gonna run bootleg pass plays the entire game? Is his only strength running bootlegs? I'm not a VY fan and have only watched him once for a full game as a pro(and once at UT), and he got hurt that game. Help me out please.

[snowman5607]

Re: Washington Redskins Official Thread

And for the record, yes, Grossman was better than McNabb in the 3 games he played. The offense looked SO much better with him in rather than McNabb.

[Jarodd21]

Re: Washington Redskins Official Thread

You really don't know what you're talking about here. Grossman didn't play better than McNabb. Grossman was about the same in a smaller sample size. McNabb had his share of big yardage games and his overall stats weren't as horrible as it's been made to believe. And on a per game basis, the only thing VY really did better than McNabb was TD/INT ratio, and having 10 TDs in 9 games is nothing to brag about. I know you like the guy but we gotta be real.

I do know what I'm talking about. I watched alot of games of McNabb last year and he looked bad. I was shocked to see Grossman operating the offense better then him which wasn't that great but was better then McNabb. Maybe it was because Grossman was more fimiliar with it or maybe his confidence was shaken because of Shannahan not believing in him but he was not the same and VY clearly played better then him last year in my opinion and so did Grossman. McNabb was 5-8 last year and was playing bad.. You can spin it how you want to but thats a fact.

[wwharton]

Re: Washington Redskins Official Thread

Has nothing to do with him being a better QB then McNabb. I don't think Grossman is better then McNabb and he came in and played better. So whats your point? We'll just have to see what happens if he ends up there.

Grossman didn't play better than McNabb. You don't know what you're talking about. You like to say you watch ALL games but that's impossible. I, however, watched pretty much every second of every Redskins game and know how McNabb played. You can even look at the stats if you want. Grossman threw the ball 40 times a game and was barely over 50%. He had one game where he had 4 tds (with 2 ints) but had 3 tds (with 2 ints) combined in his other two starts. He threw for 300+ two games but that should be expected when you throw the ball 40 times. The other game he threw for less than 200 yards... on 39 passes. My point is you don't know what you're talking about.

I don't know why you keep mentioning McNabb. Your stuck on what McNabb did in Philly. The McNabb I saw last year was terrible. I wasn't even talking about Kyle but your right about that too. I was actually talking about the Mike.

Why am I mentioning McNabb? Bc we're in a thread talking about the Washington Redskins. You keep talking about how perfect VY is for the team and the system and you're bringing up things that McNabb is said to be good at also, and we saw how they felt about McNabb's ability in those areas just last year. Why wouldn't we be talking about McNabb. It's not a VY thread.

I don't know why you'd be talking about Mike bc it was said over and over how much he loved Cutler in that draft. If someone asked him about Young in an interview, he wouldn't say "I think the kid sucks" of course, but there is nobody that thinks they would've traded up to get him. And more importantly, Heisman finalist and National Champion college player VY was an unknown on the professional level. He's got a laundry list of red flags now so it'd be impossible to know how a coach feels about him now no matter what they thought on draft day.

[snowman5607]

Re: Washington Redskins Official Thread

Can you please let me know what those strengths are?

You've basically said, running bootleg plays. Are they gonna run bootleg pass plays the entire game? Is his only strength running bootlegs? I'm not a VY fan and have only watched him once for a full game as a pro(and once at UT), and he got hurt that game. Help me out please.

Young's not bad. He's more accurate than his % shows. He's had a lot of drops thanks to Bo Scaife and Nate Washington. He's got one of the best deep balls in the NFL. He's obviously mobile, and he's good at avoiding the rush. His ball security when in the pocket could stand to get better, but he's significantly cut down on his INTs of late. He's good when the play breaks down and can scramble for first downs. I think he could really get better on intermediate routes. 5-10 yards he's solid, but 15-25 he could use some work. I think the Shanahan's could get him right.

[Jarodd21]

Re: Washington Redskins Official Thread

Can you please let me know what those strengths are?

You've basically said, running bootleg plays. Are they gonna run bootleg pass plays the entire game? Is his only strength running bootlegs? I'm not a VY fan and have only watched him once for a full game as a pro(and once at UT), and he got hurt that game. Help me out please.

I don't know if your being sarcastic or not but I'll bite. Even though he's good outside the pocket on bootlegs and stuff. Over the last 2 years he was definitely improving his game in the pocket. His completition percentage(lots of drop passes) and passer rating went up compared to his first 2 years since you believe thats all I'm referring too. My whole point of saying he's a perfect fit for Shannahan offense is because he likes mobile QBs and he's still young. While McNabb has been mobile in his career last year just didn't seem like the same McNabb I'm use to seeing. Where just going to see what happens if he ends up there.

[Fresh Tendrils]

Re: Washington Redskins Official Thread

Grossman wasn't "better" than McNabb last year - dude looked unsure of himself half the time.

[wwharton]

Re: Washington Redskins Official Thread

And for the record, yes, Grossman was better than McNabb in the 3 games he played. The offense looked SO much better with him in rather than McNabb.

Nah dawg. Grossman knows the offense better but that doesn't mean he played better. He threw for a ton of yards with a 50% completion percentage, the team still didn't win and other than the game against the sorry Cowboys secondary, he didn't get it in the endzone either. They were both very average in different ways.

I do know what I'm talking about. I watched alot of games of McNabb last year and he looked bad. I was shocked to see Grossman operating the offense better then him which wasn't that great but was better then McNabb. Maybe it was because Grossman was more fimiliar with it or maybe his confidence was shaken because of Shannahan not believing in him but he was not the same and VY clearly played better then him last year in my opinion and so did Grossman. McNabb was 5-8 last year and was playing bad.. You can spin it how you want to but thats a fact.

You watched "alot" of games? How many as that? I watched all of them. Did you watch the Houston game when he threw for 426 yards and seemed to single handedly keep them in the game? Did you watch the GB game when he threw for 357 yards and beat the eventual SB champs (sorry PPM)? What about the Titans game when he threw for 376 yards in a win?

McNabb did not have a good year but he also didn't play as bad as someone would assume getting most of their info from NFL Live and how the coaches treated him. And yet again, looking at just a record to decide how an individual played is a horrible argument. Grossman was 1-2... what's his record say?

[snowman5607]

Re: Washington Redskins Official Thread

Yes he was better. Might need to go back and watch. The offense looked a lot better with Grossman than McNabb.