Washington Redskins Official Thread

[N51_rob]

Re: Washington Redskins Official Thread

In MY OPINION he improved alot better then you give him credit for but thats my opinion I wish you would respect that. I guess you miss the part about the NFL Network. I see enough to where I get a good enough evauluation of how most players played that week especially the QBs.. So u can nitpick it and spin it however you want man and let's get something straight I voiced my opinion on VY being a fit with Washington and got jumped for it. I wasn't attacking anyone about there opinions on anything and wasn't trying to get into a VY discussion since we already had a long one about him on the VY thread but off course you didn't see it like that because that's what side of the fence your on and you never agree with my views on anything anyway especially when it comes to VY. So can we please finally agree to disagree.. haha!

I don't think anyone jumped you at all. Snowman got it worse than you IMO. You may watch a lot of games, but the people who are saying that VY isn't a good fit here are mostly skins fans or people who are local and are force fed the skins (Chooe) who I would assume watch all Washington's games and have (or so I would hope) a deeper knowledge of the team that someone out of state who watches the games as a part of the sunday ticket package.

But yes it is as simple as you think he is a good fit in Washington and others don't. To each their own. I personally enjoy a good back and forth everyone in a while. Especially during the lockout.

[Jarodd21]

Re: Washington Redskins Official Thread

I don't think anyone jumped you at all. Snowman got it worse than you IMO. You may watch a lot of games, but the people who are saying that VY isn't a good fit here are mostly skins fans or people who are local and are force fed the skins (Chooe) who I would assume watch all Washington's games and have (or so I would hope) a deeper knowledge of the team that someone out of state who watches the games as a part of the sunday ticket package.

But yes it is as simple as you think he is a good fit in Washington and others don't. To each their own.

Thats all I'm trying to say. It wasn't even a shot at you. You was the first to get at me about it on this thread and I realize you wasn't in the VY debate we already had so you knew nothing about that but as soon as you said something the same guys I been debating with(Choe's one) come jumping right into it arguing about the same exact stuff we been argueing about. This is actually the 3rd thread the VY debate got going. It started off in the Cam Newton thread and it finally ended it there when some of the Mods finally said lets get back on topic which I wish they would do with this thread. Then we got back going in the VY thread and went for a while there. Thats why I didn't really wanna get sucked back into it on this thread and I knew it would go there and I tried many times to end the discussion only to get sucked right back into it. So this is the 3rd long debate about VY and its getting old for real. 2nd in a thread that has nothing to do with him besides him maybe going to washington only for it to turn into why he's good and why he isn't.

In my opinion it really isn't that hard to have alot of knowledge of each team as long as you watch enough of them which I do. I can honestly say I watched alot of games of all of the teams in the league. Especially the one's in the division of my favorite team(Giants). NFL Network during the week is great too. I wasn't even saying that Choe don't have any knowledge of other teams. There's only one guy so far I came across who I feel only pays attention to one team and if you read some of those threads I mentioned you'll know who I'm talking about. So I don't know why SOME guys got offended like I was saying they don't pay attention to other teams. I only bought up how I have the ticket because Wharton said something to the effect of me only catching highlights on ESPN and NFL network and get my feedback off that like I don't actually pay attention to most games.. Thats how this whole thing about the ticket got going.

[wwharton]

Re: Washington Redskins Official Thread

Thats all I'm trying to say. It wasn't even a shot at you. You was the first to get at me about it on this thread and I realize you wasn't in the VY debate we already had so you knew nothing about that but as soon as you said something the same guys I been debating with(Choe's one) come jumping right into it arguing about the same exact stuff we been argueing about. This is actually the 3rd thread the VY debate got going. It started off in the Cam Newton thread and it finally ended it there when some of the Mods finally said lets get back on topic which I wish they would do with this thread. Then we got back going in the VY thread and went for a while there. Thats why I didn't really wanna get sucked back into it on this thread and I knew it would go there and I tried many times to end the discussion only to get sucked right back into it. So this is the 3rd long debate about VY and its getting old for real. 2nd in a thread that has nothing to do with him besides him maybe going to washington only for it to turn into why he's good and why he isn't.

In my opinion it really isn't that hard to have alot of knowledge of each team as long as you watch enough of them which I do. I can honestly say I watched alot of games of all of the teams in the league. Especially the one's in the division of my favorite team(Giants). NFL Network during the week is great too. I wasn't even saying that Choe don't have any knowledge of other teams. There's only one guy so far I came across who I feel only pays attention to one team and if you read some of those threads I mentioned you'll know who I'm talking about. So I don't know why SOME guys got offended like I was saying they don't pay attention to other teams. I only bought up how I have the ticket because Wharton said something to the effect of me only catching highlights on ESPN and NFL network and get my feedback off that like I don't actually pay attention to most games.. Thats how this whole thing about the ticket got going.

Everyone that frequents this thread often is either a skins fan or watches the skins A LOT. Flipping channels on Sunday with the ticket (or catching a replay every now and then) does not qualify. And it only matters bc you've said multiple times how you watch "EVERY GAME", and used that as your way of trying to convince people you know more than them. Hell the guy you're saying only pays attention to one team is BK. 90% of the people that frequents the NFL forum know that BK is fairly knowledgeable about the sport, has played it on a relatively high level, and not only watches multiple teams but watches games over from different perspectives... and basically calling him a homer just bc he defended Rivers makes no sense since he criticizes the Chargers more than anyone.

Bottom line is, this isn't about VY or me disagreeing with you or anything like that. We're on a message board, it's going to be full of debates. That's the point of being here. But if you can't seem to get that you're making incorrect assumptions about people, or that we can see thru exaggerations you're making to prove your points then you're going to feel attacked bc you will be called out on that stuff. You keep saying you wanted to get out of the VY debate but you brought it here... we were just happy to go there with you. For the most part, this has all been on topic bc the discussion is whether or not VY would fit on the Skins and why. The discussion in the Cam Newton thread was way off topic.

[Jarodd21]

Re: Washington Redskins Official Thread

Everyone that frequents this thread often is either a skins fan or watches the skins A LOT. Flipping channels on Sunday with the ticket (or catching a replay every now and then) does not qualify. And it only matters bc you've said multiple times how you watch "EVERY GAME", and used that as your way of trying to convince people you know more than them. Hell the guy you're saying only pays attention to one team is BK. 90% of the people that frequents the NFL forum know that BK is fairly knowledgeable about the sport, has played it on a relatively high level, and not only watches multiple teams but watches games over from different perspectives... and basically calling him a homer just bc he defended Rivers makes no sense since he criticizes the Chargers more than anyone.

Bottom line is, this isn't about VY or me disagreeing with you or anything like that. We're on a message board, it's going to be full of debates. That's the point of being here. But if you can't seem to get that you're making incorrect assumptions about people, or that we can see thru exaggerations you're making to prove your points then you're going to feel attacked bc you will be called out on that stuff. You keep saying you wanted to get out of the VY debate but you brought it here... we were just happy to go there with you. For the most part, this has all been on topic bc the discussion is whether or not VY would fit on the Skins and why. The discussion in the Cam Newton thread was way off topic.

It was more stuff then just the Rivers debate that proved my point about BK so you can take his side on that all you want. Your gonna take anybody side against me no matter how outrageous the statement is they make. haha! Won't change MY OPINION on that issue. I ended up getting PMs about the guy from people telling not to argueing with him because thats how he is. You can keep trying to go on this issue about me watching all games. I said I do because you threw your shot out there about me catching highlights on ESPN and NFL netork and I responded by letting you know I have the ticket and watch more games then YOU THINK is what I was trying to say and those particular games you were referring to I watched. That wasn't saying I watch more football then everyone. It was directed at you for saying I probably catch highlights on sports channels and get my opinion from there(like you did again) . So once again YOU can keep spinning it how you want and claiming I was directed that at everybody like I watch more then they do to get them to jump on this bandwagon of what your talking about when I only directed one shot at one person for only paying attention to there team in another thread. haha! BTW I don't care about debating but whats the point of debating about something we talked about plenty times( 2 threads) is what I was talking about and ruining a thread about it. Its been 4 pages or more about VY not about the Redskins..

For you information you all were argueing with Snowman about the Redskins interest in VY(which turned out to be right) and I simply said I believe he would be a good fit and it turned out to be more then him being a good fit especially after I repeating the same reasons why I believed he was a fit with you all continuing to claim I wasn't giving reasons why he is when I did and all you guys did was give similiar reasons(opinions) why he's not fit and It turned into the same lame debate about him being good or not. You can respond and say what you want after this. I'm going to let it go. You win if thats what you wanna hear.

[wwharton]

Re: Washington Redskins Official Thread

It was more stuff then just the Rivers debate that proved my point about BK so you can take his side on that all you want. Your gonna take anybody side against me no matter how outrageous the statement is they make. haha! Won't change MY OPINION on that issue. I ended up getting PMs about the guy from people telling not to argueing with him because thats how he is. You can keep trying to go on this issue about me watching all games. I said I do because you threw your shot out there about me catching highlights on ESPN and NFL netork and I responded by letting you know I have the ticket and watch more games then YOU THINK is what I was trying to say and those particular games you were referring to I watched. That wasn't saying I watch more football then everyone. It was directed at you for saying I probably catch highlights on sports channels and get my opinion from there(like you did again) . So once again YOU can keep spinning it how you want and claiming I was directed that at everybody like I watch more then they do to get them to jump on this bandwagon of what your talking about when I only directed one shot at one person for only paying attention to there team in another thread. haha! BTW I don't care about debating but whats the point of debating about something we talked about plenty times( 2 threads) is what I was talking about and ruining a thread about it. Its been 4 pages or more about VY not about the Redskins..

For you information you all were argueing with Snowman about the Redskins interest in VY(which turned out to be right) and I simply said I believe he would be a good fit and it turned out to be more then him being a good fit especially after I repeating the same reasons why I believed he was a fit with you all continuing to claim I wasn't giving reasons why he is when I did and all you guys did was give similiar reasons(opinions) why he's not fit and It turned into the same lame debate about him being good or not. You can respond and say what you want after this. I'm going to let it go. You win if thats what you wanna hear.

You didn't prove any point... about BK or anything else. People are responding to you bc you're so dead set that you're right and "You can't change my opinion" on anything and everything anyone says otherwise is "spinning" something. You said before that you watch ALL games, not just in here. I'm not going to start bringing up quotes but there is a reason why so many people are trying to explain the same things to you. But I understand you won't get it bc you simply don't want to. And that's fine, but know that you aren't being attacked. You'll probably be called out more in the future for exaggerations or someone being bothered by you assuming that they only think a certain way bc they're a fan of team X or they're thinking about a player from years before or whatever the new reason you'll have for why someone doesn't find everything you say correct.

And for the record, I'm not here to disagree with everything you say. I don't even know you man, and even with these debates I've got nothing against you at all. Just letting you know the world doesn't turn exactly the way it seems in your head all the time. No matter what someone PM'd you, you can just look at BK's post history to know he doesn't only watch the Bolts and definitely doesn't blindly support the players. The shots at snowman were also from something long before the VY conversation started. The assumptions just are not a good look, but not going to tell you how to handle your business so enjoy.

[ZB9]

Re: Washington Redskins Official Thread

You didn't prove any point... about BK or anything else. People are responding to you bc you're so dead set that you're right and "You can't change my opinion" on anything and everything anyone says otherwise is "spinning" something. You said before that you watch ALL games, not just in here. I'm not going to start bringing up quotes but there is a reason why so many people are trying to explain the same things to you. But I understand you won't get it bc you simply don't want to. And that's fine, but know that you aren't being attacked. You'll probably be called out more in the future for exaggerations or someone being bothered by you assuming that they only think a certain way bc they're a fan of team X or they're thinking about a player from years before or whatever the new reason you'll have for why someone doesn't find everything you say correct.

And for the record, I'm not here to disagree with everything you say. I don't even know you man, and even with these debates I've got nothing against you at all. Just letting you know the world doesn't turn exactly the way it seems in your head all the time. No matter what someone PM'd you, you can just look at BK's post history to know he doesn't only watch the Bolts and definitely doesn't blindly support the players. The shots at snowman were also from something long before the VY conversation started. The assumptions just are not a good look, but not going to tell you how to handle your business so enjoy.

hypocritical much WW? You arent stating anything but opinions either. I would bet that you havent watched VY play or followed his situation in Tennessee much at all (which is very clear by some of your comments judging from someone who actually has followed the players career).

Another poster debating with Jerrod stated that he's only seen ONE VY game, yet he acts like he knows what he's talking about in this subject. If all of the information you get is from people like Chris Mortenson or profootballtalk, then you arent going to have efficient ammo to debate with someone who actually followed the team and watched the games.

Anyway, im just curious, do you know the difference between fact and opinion? This is the second time you criticized someone for having an opinion when that is all you are giving yourself

[Jarodd21]

Re: Washington Redskins Official Thread

hypocritical much WW? You arent stating anything but opinions either. I would bet that you havent watched VY play or followed his situation in Tennessee much at all (which is very clear by some of your comments judging from someone who actually has followed the players career).

Another poster debating with Jerrod stated that he's only seen ONE VY game, yet he acts like he knows what he's talking about in this subject. If all of the information you get is from people like Chris Mortenson or profootballtalk, then you arent going to have efficient ammo to debate with someone who actually followed the team and watched the games.

Anyway, im just curious, do you know the difference between fact and opinion? This is the second time you criticized someone for having an opinion when that is all you are giving yourself

[Aggies7]

Re: Washington Redskins Official Thread

Ok enough with the back and forth....Back to Redskins please.

[N51_rob]

Another poster debating with Jerrod stated that he's only seen ONE VY game, yet he acts like he knows what he's talking about in this subject. If all of the information you get is from people like Chris Mortenson or profootballtalk, then you arent going to have efficient ammo to debate with someone who actually followed the team and watched the games.

Didn't have to watch a VY game to read about him getting into a fight at a strip club over the UT hook em. Immaturity

Didn't have to see more than one game to see that he completes less that 60% of his passes fir his career.
Inaccuracy.

In the game I saw, I saw how he handled being booed by his home crowd. Taking off his equipment and throwing it into the stands during the game?
Overly sensitive, immaturity

You said his teammates came to support him in the Fisher situation. I asked for specific quotes got none. So I stand by my statement that its telling that no one came to his defense following the fallout with Fisher.

I have only watched one VY game fully. This whole thing was about his fitting with Washington. How many games do I need to see to know that he isn't a good fit here IMO for the reason I mentioned.

I didn't say he couldn't be a QB in the league. I've pretty much kept my mouth shut about VY on the whole. I said he wouldn't fit in Washington a team I know a little about.

Washington has no oline, below average WRs, a running game that is going through significant changes a defense that forces the offense into shoot-outs, and a coaching staff that has already thrown one QB under the bus. Those reason should be enough to scare any VY fan away from Washington already.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

[Aggies7]

Re: Washington Redskins Official Thread

From Tim Kavanaugh via ESPN

Speaking from a charity golf event on Monday, Redskins pass-rushing dynamo Brian Orakpo was asked about his fellow Texas product (Young) joining the team. "As far as football and what he's gonna do in the future, haven't really gotten that aspect of it, but I wish him the best and we'll see," Orakpo responded, per Dan Steinberg of the Washington Post. "I mean, it's all speculation. We really can't tell what's gonna go on."

Redskins wideout Anthony Armstrong was asked who he believes will be the starter this fall. "The guy who's most efficient running the offense," Armstrong logically replied. "Whoever's the best, he's gonna end up running the show, if it's John Beck, if it's Donovan, if it's Rex, if it's a player to be named later, whoever's the most efficient, he's gonna be the guy. ... Vince Young, I've heard the Vince Young thing. I don't really know."

One argument against Young's signing with the 'Skins has been Mike Shanahan's relationship with former Tennessee Titans head coach Jeff Fisher. The relationship between Fisher and Young deteriorated in very public, very devastating fashion during the 2010 season, and this could sway the 'Skins in another direction. However, we're not ready to completely rule him out as an option for the team

Does not even sound like Orakpo is to confident in VY and as I stated before VY's actions in Tennessee may play huge role in sign due to relationship between Fisher and Shanahan.

[wwharton]

Re: Washington Redskins Official Thread

hypocritical much WW? You arent stating anything but opinions either. I would bet that you havent watched VY play or followed his situation in Tennessee much at all (which is very clear by some of your comments judging from someone who actually has followed the players career).

Another poster debating with Jerrod stated that he's only seen ONE VY game, yet he acts like he knows what he's talking about in this subject. If all of the information you get is from people like Chris Mortenson or profootballtalk, then you arent going to have efficient ammo to debate with someone who actually followed the team and watched the games.

Anyway, im just curious, do you know the difference between fact and opinion? This is the second time you criticized someone for having an opinion when that is all you are giving yourself

Please, ZB you know better. Whether or not we disagree on some things related to VY we've had conversations over the years about specific games so you know I've seen him play, and you DEFINITELY know I've followed every situation he's been involved in. Not even sure what the point of your post was. In the general VY discussion recently I even quoted your realistic analysis as one that I agree with so it seems like you just have to back anyone that supports the kid blindly here. But that has little to do with the claim of me being hypocritical. I have NEVER said "I've seen all of Young's games" and even if I had, I wouldn't attempt to use that as a reason my argument is better than someone elses (unless they clearly hadn't seen anything).

If you've got beef with the one poster you're talking about, take it up with him (sounds like it's Rob and he responded on his own even with you directing it at me for some reason). Obviously that poster isn't me so I'm not sure how his comments make me a hypocrite. Is it bc we agree? That makes absolutely no sense at all.

But this is starting to get petty. The point is many people that watch and follow the skins religiously don't think VY would be a good fit for the team. Whether you or anyone else thinks that means we hate VY or think he sucks is really your problem bc I've said nothing of the sort. I'm sorry if it bothers anyone that I don't think VY should be starting for the Skins next year.

[ZB9]

Re: Washington Redskins Official Thread

Please, ZB you know better. Whether or not we disagree on some things related to VY we've had conversations over the years about specific games so you know I've seen him play, and you DEFINITELY know I've followed every situation he's been involved in. Not even sure what the point of your post was. In the general VY discussion recently I even quoted your realistic analysis as one that I agree with so it seems like you just have to back anyone that supports the kid blindly here. But that has little to do with the claim of me being hypocritical. I have NEVER said "I've seen all of Young's games" and even if I had, I wouldn't attempt to use that as a reason my argument is better than someone elses (unless they clearly hadn't seen anything).

yes indeed WW. My point is it doesnt make sense to dismiss Jerrod's opinion of the player when he's probably watched him more than anyone here and no one here is giving anything but opinions either.

As far as "supporting him blindly", if that's the case then i could certainly state that some folks in here are "hating on him blindly"...probably even more blindly since many havent even been paying much attention to the player. The statements like "they had to dumb down the offense" or "he was suicidal" is very lazy analysis and mostly comes from folks who have not followed Young's situation and mostly know VY from what they hear on talk radio or ESPN and/or those who have an agenda (which one do you fall in WW ). Making statements like "he faked his knee injury" in other threads is ridiculous and agreeing with such statements pretty much make any further analysis from that person void.

Dismissing the improvement Young has made over the past two years as "only because of CJ", yet not also accounting for the fact that before CJ Young had one of the worst offensive supporting casts in the NFL in his first two seasons, shows a double standard. Often times, people do seem to hold Young to a double standard for some reason. He finally gets some semblance of a supporting cast on offense and some folks want to hold it against him for some reason. The other QBs on the Titans roster have had the same supporting cast, yet the Titans have been 1-11 without Young over the past two seasons. Yes CJ was the MVP of the Titans and he makes everyone better. However, It goes both ways. CJ's performance has been better overall with Young on the field also. The threat of Young's mobility on the field combined with CJ gave the defense more things to account for with the the Titans' ability to bust out option plays and more misdirection plays.

If you've got beef with the one poster you're talking about, take it up with him (sounds like it's Rob and he responded on his own even with you directing it at me for some reason). Obviously that poster isn't me so I'm not sure how his comments make me a hypocrite. Is it bc we agree? That makes absolutely no sense at all.

But this is starting to get petty. The point is many people that watch and follow the skins religiously don't think VY would be a good fit for the team. Whether you or anyone else thinks that means we hate VY or think he sucks is really your problem bc I've said nothing of the sort. I'm sorry if it bothers anyone that I don't think VY should be starting for the Skins next year.

It might not be as be as petty, if folks would debate Jerrod's points instead of dismissing.

Anyway, of course I cant blame Redskins fans if they dont want Washington to bring in Young. He might not be a good fit with Washington and those who have followed Washington know that better than me...but the point I am making is about the analysis of the player. Many people are lacking sufficient ammo in such an analysis (again of THE PLAYER, not of Washington's QB situation).

this is my last response on this. Im out. It's fun debating you WW

[wwharton]

Re: Washington Redskins Official Thread

ZB9, the analysis of the player to the level you're taking it belongs in the thread about the player. There is a reason people from both sides (as Jerrod mentioned himself) have used summaries rather than long details as you're doing... bc this is the Skins thread. As I've said too many times already in here, my comments to Jerrod were more general than focusing on VY. I have NO idea why you want to ignore that and the idea of keeping this about VY going to the Skins or dropping it all together (putting a short paragraph at the end on topic is a nice touch). Seriously, if you want to get into this any more you can send me a PM. Trying to accuse me of being in some category so you can continue your agenda is not gonna happen here. Like I said, if you've got beef with anyone that applies to any of the examples you presented, take it up with them but NONE of them are me, and you know that. So I really don't know what you're doing but you can explain it in a PM if you want to keep this going. The next post about VY in this way in this thread will be considered trolling (from myself included).

[N51_rob]

Re: Washington Redskins Official Thread

If you are gonna host a golf tournament, don't be afraid to take a lesson or two before you walk out there. Looking at you Brian Orakpo lol.

http://dc.sbnation.com/washington-redskins/2011/5/9/2162845/video-brian-orakpos-horrible-golf-swing

[snowman5607]

Re: Washington Redskins Official Thread

Regarding the QB situation, I wouldn't be surprised if Rex Grossman won't be back. I think he could wind up somewhere else with the possibility of bringing Young in. Wouldn't shock me at all.