Washington Redskins Official Thread

[Fresh Tendrils]

Re: Washington Redskins Official Thread

I remember some pretty horrific Grossman plays, especially in the last couple minutes of his games.

[wwharton]

Re: Washington Redskins Official Thread

Young's not bad. He's more accurate than his % shows. He's had a lot of drops thanks to Bo Scaife and Nate Washington. He's got one of the best deep balls in the NFL. He's obviously mobile, and he's good at avoiding the rush. His ball security when in the pocket could stand to get better, but he's significantly cut down on his INTs of late. He's good when the play breaks down and can scramble for first downs. I think he could really get better on intermediate routes. 5-10 yards he's solid, but 15-25 he could use some work. I think the Shanahan's could get him right.

This is what PPM is saying... that sounds like McNabb. But it looked like either McNabb really wasn't grasping the playbook as the coaches wanted to lead us to believe, or his weaknesses were really put to the test in the offense they want to run. Either way, I don't see how VY wouldn't have the same problem... with the added issue of not handling being criticized about it.

[ZB9]

Re: Washington Redskins Official Thread

Regardless, it's clear that McNabb is not the same player. Donovan is getting progressively worse and the trend will continue downward with him. No one has said that Young has been better than McNabb overall in their careers, but Vince has gotten better every year and has more improvement ahead.

Anyway, the fact that Washington brought McNabb in helps to back up the assertion that Shanahan's offense likes mobile QBs (Jake Plummer, John Elway, etc.).

[Jarodd21]

Re: Washington Redskins Official Thread

Grossman didn't play better than McNabb. You don't know what you're talking about. You like to say you watch ALL games but that's impossible. I, however, watched pretty much every second of every Redskins game and know how McNabb played. You can even look at the stats if you want. Grossman threw the ball 40 times a game and was barely over 50%. He had one game where he had 4 tds (with 2 ints) but had 3 tds (with 2 ints) combined in his other two starts. He threw for 300+ two games but that should be expected when you throw the ball 40 times. The other game he threw for less than 200 yards... on 39 passes. My point is you don't know what you're talking about.



Why am I mentioning McNabb? Bc we're in a thread talking about the Washington Redskins. You keep talking about how perfect VY is for the team and the system and you're bringing up things that McNabb is said to be good at also, and we saw how they felt about McNabb's ability in those areas just last year. Why wouldn't we be talking about McNabb. It's not a VY thread.

I don't know why you'd be talking about Mike bc it was said over and over how much he loved Cutler in that draft. If someone asked him about Young in an interview, he wouldn't say "I think the kid sucks" of course, but there is nobody that thinks they would've traded up to get him. And more importantly, Heisman finalist and National Champion college player VY was an unknown on the professional level. He's got a laundry list of red flags now so it'd be impossible to know how a coach feels about him now no matter what they thought on draft day.

Its your opinion.. In my opinion I felt that Grossman clearly played better then McNabb and your not going to change my mind about it. I seen what I had to see.

You clearly misunderstood I was saying about bringing up McNabb. I was saying why do you keep bringing up how McNabb did last year in that system when it was one of his worst years and I saying you were stuck on how good he did in Philly and he played nothing like that last year. I was giving an example that Grossman isn't better then McNabb and played better because how you was trying to say McNabb is better then Young and look how he did. Thats what I was talking about when I said that. I thought you knew that.

Mike would have grabbed VY over Cutler if he had of fell to him because he did like him. He was talking about how much he liked Cutler because there's no chance VY would have fell too him.

[Jarodd21]

Re: Washington Redskins Official Thread

Nah dawg. Grossman knows the offense better but that doesn't mean he played better. He threw for a ton of yards with a 50% completion percentage, the team still didn't win and other than the game against the sorry Cowboys secondary, he didn't get it in the endzone either. They were both very average in different ways.



You watched "alot" of games? How many as that? I watched all of them. Did you watch the Houston game when he threw for 426 yards and seemed to single handedly keep them in the game? Did you watch the GB game when he threw for 357 yards and beat the eventual SB champs (sorry PPM)? What about the Titans game when he threw for 376 yards in a win?

McNabb did not have a good year but he also didn't play as bad as someone would assume getting most of their info from NFL Live and how the coaches treated him. And yet again, looking at just a record to decide how an individual played is a horrible argument. Grossman was 1-2... what's his record say?

Sorry I miss no games. I have the direct TV NFL ticket. So I'm not stuck watching only local games like most people. I'm a football junkie so your assumption is WAYYY off base about me. He had some good games and showed flashes in some like the few you just mentioned. I really watched those games because they were good and had great finishes to them. Who knows how Grossman would have played if he started the whole year but those 3 games he played he looked alot better operating the offense which says alot because it wasn't that great.

[ZB9]

Re: Washington Redskins Official Thread

McNabb is a perfect bootleg QB.

again, McNabb is getting progressively worse. His athletic ability is not what it once was.

Do you know why Kyle may have liked VY coming out? ZB said he was at UTexas which could be a reason. VY has been a legend in Texas since HS so picking him in Houston would make fans happy. There are plenty of reasons he may have liked him back then that had nothing to do with football. And at the end of the day, they went the unconventional route and took a DE instead of VY which is a pretty strong statement about how they really felt about him.

Jerod was talking about Mike. There were stories of Mike Shanahan wanting to draft VY when Mike was with Denver. Mike Shanahan is the current head coach of the Redskins. Kyle is the OC.

[snowman5607]

Re: Washington Redskins Official Thread

This is what PPM is saying... that sounds like McNabb. But it looked like either McNabb really wasn't grasping the playbook as the coaches wanted to lead us to believe, or his weaknesses were really put to the test in the offense they want to run. Either way, I don't see how VY wouldn't have the same problem... with the added issue of not handling being criticized about it.

I believe McNabb didn't give it his all because he didn't really want to be in Washington....ahem...

[Jarodd21]

Re: Washington Redskins Official Thread

Regardless, it's clear that McNabb is not the same player. Donovan is getting progressively worse and the trend will continue downward with him. No one has said that Young has been better than McNabb overall in their careers, but Vince has gotten better every year and has more improvement ahead.

Anyway, the fact that Washington brought McNabb in helps to back up the assertion that Shanahan's offense likes mobile QBs (Jake Plummer, John Elway, etc.).

Thats pretty much all I was trying to say before the thread went sideways. Haha! I had a feeling that was going to happen as soon as I showed any support for VY.

[Jarodd21]

Re: Washington Redskins Official Thread

I believe McNabb didn't give it his all because he didn't really want to be in Washington....ahem...

I agree...

[wwharton]

Re: Washington Redskins Official Thread

Its your opinion.. In my opinion I felt that Grossman clearly played better then McNabb and your not going to change my mind about it. I seen what I had to see.

You clearly misunderstood I was saying about bringing up McNabb. I was saying why do you keep bringing up how McNabb did last year in that system when it was one of his worst years and I saying you were stuck on how good he did in Philly and he played nothing like that last year. I was giving an example that Grossman isn't better then McNabb and played better because how you was trying to say McNabb is better then Young and look how he did. Thats what I was talking about when I said that. I thought you knew that.

Mike would have grabbed VY over Cutler if he had of fell to him because he did like him. He was talking about how much he liked Cutler because there's no chance VY would have fell too him.

And this is exactly why I get heated. How are you going to tell me I'm stuck on what he did in Philly? I didn't even mention anything about him in Philly AND said I watched every single Skins game. How are you going to discredit what I say by assuming I'm basing it on something that never even came up? It's just like you telling people they're just supporting players on their favorite team (BK objectively criticizes Charger players more than anyone) or how you watch so many games (I saw ALL of McNabb's games last year). I know exactly how McNabb played last year. He had a bad season for him, but he was far from the horrible player he was painted out to be. It was a joke that he was pulled at the end of the year, and it clearly had more to do with his relationship with Kyle than anything happening on the field. I gave you 3 examples of games where McNabb played great. He had other good games.

Most importantly, on the topic, it wasn't about McNabb being better than Young (and look what he did). It's about the two having similar strengths and weaknesses and how those skills translated in the Skins offense. Grossman has known the offense for years so he executed the plays better but he still played average at best. We all know McNabb is a better QB than Grossman... that wasn't the discussion. Last year, overall, Grossman did not play better than McNabb. He played 3 games at the end of the year and had respectable stats. Two of those games were better than some of McNabb's games but overall McNabb had his big games too (that trumped those 2) mixed in with some good games and some bad. He was average... they both were (all the way down to the record).

Mike would've drafted Young if he fell that far based on what was known about Young at the time. But that doesn't mean he was in love with him asa you're suggesting. Young was projected as a top 3 pick... most teams would've drafted him if he fell that far. If there was a redraft today, chances are that thought would be different.

[Jarodd21]

Re: Washington Redskins Official Thread

I remember some pretty horrific Grossman plays, especially in the last couple minutes of his games.

Please don't think I was saying Grossman played good because Grossman is what he is. Garbage... I was just stating that he played better then McNabb in the few starts he had maybe because he knew the offense better I don't know. McNabb just didn't look right last year. Grossman sucks..

[wwharton]

Re: Washington Redskins Official Thread

Sorry I miss no games. I have the direct TV NFL ticket. So I'm not stuck watching only local games like most people. I'm a football junkie so your assumption is WAYYY off base about me. He had some good games and showed flashes in some like the few you just mentioned. I really watched those games because they were good and had great finishes to them. Who knows how Grossman would have played if he started the whole year but those 3 games he played he looked alot better operating the offense which says alot because it wasn't that great.

You're not the only one with the NFL ticket you know. Do you also have 10 tvs? Even then you can't watch all the games. Maybe you DVR every single game and watch them throughout the week? Come on man.

again, McNabb is getting progressively worse. His athletic ability is not what it once was.

Jerod was talking about Mike. There were stories of Mike Shanahan wanting to draft VY when Mike was with Denver. Mike Shanahan is the current head coach of the Redskins. Kyle is the OC.

No doubt he's getting older but he was moving around quite a bit early in the season. The line got banged up (again) and CP getting hurt killed the blocking even more and he had no time to go anywhere. Same would've been true if it was VY back there. Grossman got the ball out quicker bc he knew the offense better but he was still like a deer in headlights half the time too.

And thanks for clearing up the coaching tree, lol (pretty sure I knew that).

[Jarodd21]

Re: Washington Redskins Official Thread

And this is exactly why I get heated. How are you going to tell me I'm stuck on what he did in Philly? I didn't even mention anything about him in Philly AND said I watched every single Skins game. How are you going to discredit what I say by assuming I'm basing it on something that never even came up? It's just like you telling people they're just supporting players on their favorite team (BK objectively criticizes Charger players more than anyone) or how you watch so many games (I saw ALL of McNabb's games last year). I know exactly how McNabb played last year. He had a bad season for him, but he was far from the horrible player he was painted out to be. It was a joke that he was pulled at the end of the year, and it clearly had more to do with his relationship with Kyle than anything happening on the field. I gave you 3 examples of games where McNabb played great. He had other good games.

Most importantly, on the topic, it wasn't about McNabb being better than Young (and look what he did). It's about the two having similar strengths and weaknesses and how those skills translated in the Skins offense. Grossman has known the offense for years so he executed the plays better but he still played average at best. We all know McNabb is a better QB than Grossman... that wasn't the discussion. Last year, overall, Grossman did not play better than McNabb. He played 3 games at the end of the year and had respectable stats. Two of those games were better than some of McNabb's games but overall McNabb had his big games too (that trumped those 2) mixed in with some good games and some bad. He was average... they both were (all the way down to the record).

Mike would've drafted Young if he fell that far based on what was known about Young at the time. But that doesn't mean he was in love with him asa you're suggesting. Young was projected as a top 3 pick... most teams would've drafted him if he fell that far. If there was a redraft today, chances are that thought would be different.

You got that wrong too. I wasn't saying it like you only watch one team. I was saying you were stuck on what McNabb did in Philly saying if he couldn't do good with Washington why would VY because he's the better QB. I simply said Grossman did better then McNabb(IMO) last year and that doesn't make him a better QB then McNabb. I also felt VY played better then McNabb last year. We don't know how VY would do in Washington but you can't base it off McNabb's struggles with the system. I just personally think VY would do good with in Washington. I definitely don't look at you as the type who is only stuck on watching one team like some other guys on this forum because I hear objective talk from you on different subjects. So you definitely misunderstood what I was saying with that.

[ZB9]

Re: Washington Redskins Official Thread

No doubt he's getting older but he was moving around quite a bit early in the season. The line got banged up (again) and CP getting hurt killed the blocking even more and he had no time to go anywhere. Same would've been true if it was VY back there. Grossman got the ball out quicker bc he knew the offense better but he was still like a deer in headlights half the time too.

Perhaps so, but McNabb is going to be worse next year and the year after that. Like Jerrodd stated, VY looked better last year and has improved every season in the league thus far.

Washington is probably thinking of the future when it comes to the QB position and McNabb is probably almost done. I would bet that is the main reason why Shanahan replaced McNabb in the lineup with Grossman last season (as badly handled as it was in the press, the way they handled it was BS). They wanted to give Grossman a chance to audition for the future.

And thanks for clearing up the coaching tree, lol (pretty sure I knew that).

ha just making sure [/jk]

[snowman5607]

Re: Washington Redskins Official Thread

Young was doomed from the start in Tennessee. Bud Adams wanted Young and forced him on Fisher so there was antimosity from the start. Kyle would know better than anyone about Vince on and off-field being a former teammate. Shanahan brings Young to DC, he will have the proper support system with a OC that he has a relationship with. On the defensive side of the ball you have a young leader in Orakpo to also be there to support and hold him accountable. IMO we are the perfect situation to get the most out of Vince Young as a player.