GT4 review.

[pk500]

Re: GT4 review.

It may not be the best game when it comes to racing but it sure is addicting and fun IMO. I popped it in last night and next thing you know it is 3 hours later. I am still shocked at the visuals Polyphony was able to get out of the PS2. The upscanned 1080i mode is just awesome looking

An honest answer without claims that I'm "pissing on the game."

Glad you're enjoying GT 4 for what it is, Injun. That's very cool!

Take care,
PK

[pk500]

Re: GT4 review.

I think Fossen said it best so far. It is a car game not so much a racing game. Along those lines, it does quite well.

I enjoy taking different cars out on the tracks and just seeing how low of a time I can post. Racing the generated ghost of myself is quite fun as well. I will admit there are shortcomings to the races themselves, due to the shabby opposing racer AI and yes, it is a crime that that has not been addressed by PD, but I remember from past GT's that the difficulty level increases as you play. Meaning even if the AI is shoddy they start putting up more of a fight as you progress. In past GT's I remember having quite a lot of tough races even with the strict adhere to the race line AI.

I think elevation on the tracks has been wonderfully represented and I remember driving in GT3 in a tricked out supra on a track whose name I forget there was always a section that I bottomed out on and it was just a really cool thing. Well, it's that same feeling but magnified. Hard to explain, but there it is.

I also like the way all of the cars feel different (based on the ones I have driven so far). Upgrades tweak the car nicely. I wish you could choose any car paint color at a custom paintshop. I also wish you could buy "blackmarket" items that could possibly fail and or damage your car or make your car amazing.

I wish you could customise the cars you race against. Kind of a bizarre thought, but if you could pimp them out similarly to your own car that would be pretty hot.

Braking and the overall feel of car weight in the game seems to be much improved over GT3. The car's move weight around when braking the best of the series so far, you can feel the weight lean out over the corners of the car if you break hard while turning.

The tracks of course are as glorious as ever, and having nurburgring so wonderfully represented is nothing short of fantastic. Also the inclusion of the highest number of real tracks in GT that I can remember is quite nice.

Truthfully, sure I wish the AI was better, but there are plenty of modes to drive in the game that counter the rigid AI.

I also wish that you could test drive any car on a track without having to purchase it.

Another addition that would be great would be selectable race conditions. Night race at nurburring in the rain would be terrifying, but I want a piece of that.

Thanks, Black. Very interesting points. But then again, I'm not surprised -- your posts always are informative and well thought.

Oh, and your roster updates and sliders kick azz, too!

Take care,
PK

[pk500]

Re: GT4 review.

I think Fossen said it best so far. It is a car game not so much a racing game. Along those lines, it does quite well.

I enjoy taking different cars out on the tracks and just seeing how low of a time I can post. Racing the generated ghost of myself is quite fun as well. I will admit there are shortcomings to the races themselves, due to the shabby opposing racer AI and yes, it is a crime that that has not been addressed by PD, but I remember from past GT's that the difficulty level increases as you play. Meaning even if the AI is shoddy they start putting up more of a fight as you progress. In past GT's I remember having quite a lot of tough races even with the strict adhere to the race line AI.

I think elevation on the tracks has been wonderfully represented and I remember driving in GT3 in a tricked out supra on a track whose name I forget there was always a section that I bottomed out on and it was just a really cool thing. Well, it's that same feeling but magnified. Hard to explain, but there it is.

I also like the way all of the cars feel different (based on the ones I have driven so far). Upgrades tweak the car nicely. I wish you could choose any car paint color at a custom paintshop. I also wish you could buy "blackmarket" items that could possibly fail and or damage your car or make your car amazing.

I wish you could customise the cars you race against. Kind of a bizarre thought, but if you could pimp them out similarly to your own car that would be pretty hot.

Braking and the overall feel of car weight in the game seems to be much improved over GT3. The car's move weight around when braking the best of the series so far, you can feel the weight lean out over the corners of the car if you break hard while turning.

The tracks of course are as glorious as ever, and having nurburgring so wonderfully represented is nothing short of fantastic. Also the inclusion of the highest number of real tracks in GT that I can remember is quite nice.

Truthfully, sure I wish the AI was better, but there are plenty of modes to drive in the game that counter the rigid AI.

I also wish that you could test drive any car on a track without having to purchase it.

Another addition that would be great would be selectable race conditions. Night race at nurburring in the rain would be terrifying, but I want a piece of that.

Thanks, Black. Very interesting points. But then again, I'm not surprised -- your posts always are informative and well thought.

Oh, and your roster updates and sliders kick azz, too!

Take care,
PK

[jmood88]

Re: GT4 review.

Solid gameplay with weak AI???? That makes ZERO sense.

Lmao exactly the same thing I thought.

[jmood88]

Re: GT4 review.

Solid gameplay with weak AI???? That makes ZERO sense.

Lmao exactly the same thing I thought.

[blacklover]

Re: GT4 review.

I think one of the biggest issues, and this goes with almost all race games, is the lack of unpredictability out on the course.

Things falling off your car later in the race due to damage, debris on the track, random oil leaks and engine fires, having someones engine go in front of you, dealing with wounded cars on the track, etc. All the freakshow racing things that happen. All racing games seem too clinical. GT series for certain.

How about something as simple as this:

Let the player record 5-10 ghost laps. Then let the player select a car or car skin or whatever to represent each ghost lap. Then let the player race against those "reprogrammed" racers.

Simple things can make racing games so much more exciting. Like all of EA's F1 games. Why did no version ever set up a simple advance in technology model during the season? Williams team would like to inform their driver that a newer model of the current car has been developed would he like to test/race it? Jordan have been experimenting with a new brake air flow concept, would you like to test/race it? Then you could answer however, and maybe it works great and maybe it's abysmal. Umm, just like real racing.

Another crime and this one just amazes me. One version of EA's nascar game (2000? maybe I think it was still on the PS1) let you set the horsepower of the CPU cars. Wow. Ok take that concept further. How about you can set the horsepower of any car in the game? That way anyone who moans about unrealistic lap times could fine tune horsepower. And in the case of their F1 series you could actually separate the cars by manufacturer. Having an Arrows perfrom like a Ferrrari is blasphemy.

Racing games need help.

[blacklover]

Re: GT4 review.

I think one of the biggest issues, and this goes with almost all race games, is the lack of unpredictability out on the course.

Things falling off your car later in the race due to damage, debris on the track, random oil leaks and engine fires, having someones engine go in front of you, dealing with wounded cars on the track, etc. All the freakshow racing things that happen. All racing games seem too clinical. GT series for certain.

How about something as simple as this:

Let the player record 5-10 ghost laps. Then let the player select a car or car skin or whatever to represent each ghost lap. Then let the player race against those "reprogrammed" racers.

Simple things can make racing games so much more exciting. Like all of EA's F1 games. Why did no version ever set up a simple advance in technology model during the season? Williams team would like to inform their driver that a newer model of the current car has been developed would he like to test/race it? Jordan have been experimenting with a new brake air flow concept, would you like to test/race it? Then you could answer however, and maybe it works great and maybe it's abysmal. Umm, just like real racing.

Another crime and this one just amazes me. One version of EA's nascar game (2000? maybe I think it was still on the PS1) let you set the horsepower of the CPU cars. Wow. Ok take that concept further. How about you can set the horsepower of any car in the game? That way anyone who moans about unrealistic lap times could fine tune horsepower. And in the case of their F1 series you could actually separate the cars by manufacturer. Having an Arrows perfrom like a Ferrrari is blasphemy.

Racing games need help.

[Medway]

Re: GT4 review.

Looking forward to your feedback!

Take care,
PK

Ok I'm not going to try and refute anything you've read he because I never made any claims in the first place other than hearsay. I will give my impressions though after a few hours of playing last nite.

First of all I deffinatly agree that the series has shown litttle innovation in the past few installments. Even though I had my hopes up for GT4 in the back of my mind I kept thinking that I would never feel the same about it as I did with experiencing GT1 for the first time.

I took a few laps around in arcade mode just to get a feel for the changes in physics. Noticed right away a lot of understeer but from what I read that is one of the effects present in the new engine. At this point I was slightly underwhelmed as I noted the AI still seemed to be the same old AI. At that point I decided to dive into GT mode. At first I was dreading the license tests. But after a passing a few of the tests it all started to click and I felt that same obsession that I had with GT1 in trying to further my times. I think that's when it hit me, that I love GT more for the accomplishment of improving my own driving skill, not necessarily beating some AI car. Seeing yourself pass your own ghost to a faster time is a nice feeling as you aim for those gold trohpies. So I passed my first test and got into some races. Started to look at the AI as more of a "pace" to try and match instead of actual live opponents I'm trying to beat. It's almost like they are an extention to the ghost car idea, they give you something to shoot for time wise.

I'm not an expert on describing car physics but overall it does seem deeper than GT3. Ill have to take the word of others who have more experience in that area who say that GT4 has deffinatly improved here. Each of the cars does seem to have more personality, although I can't exactly verify if thats due to correct physics or not. I'm still too new to this series and my driving chops aren't up to the level they need to be in order to fully enjoy those changes that do exist. I've also read that the DFP is essential for getting the most of out the feel of the cars and track.

The graphics are deffinatly nicer and I think they really do tie into the "gameplay" to an extent. The better the graphics the better immersed you can feel in the environment and to me thats part of what GT is about.

Didn't get too far into the tuning or upgrade options although I did notice 3rd party parts available which I think is a new addition, not sure. The sound seems fine, perhaps a little on the raspy side for some of the engines I tested.
The menus got a nice facelift and overall this has that slick presentation you expect for the series.

Anways I wish I could go into more details in the driving physics. I have a feeling this is where the meat of the fun is going to be in conjucntion with the graphics/environments. After playing this I don't think the IGN score of 9.5 is off the mark as long as you don't care too much about the AI/racing aspect of the game, which I don't. Most of the fun I've had already is just with the license tests themselves. What I loved in the original was progessing further and further with my driving skill in the game until I was able to really feel in control of the car. At that point its a pretty exhilarating experience on its own right, AI cars or not. So perhaps not exactly an innovation its deffinatly a great step up from previous versions of GT. As long as its few flaws don't bug you too much there is deffinatly a killer game here.

[Medway]

Re: GT4 review.

Looking forward to your feedback!

Take care,
PK

Ok I'm not going to try and refute anything you've read he because I never made any claims in the first place other than hearsay. I will give my impressions though after a few hours of playing last nite.

First of all I deffinatly agree that the series has shown litttle innovation in the past few installments. Even though I had my hopes up for GT4 in the back of my mind I kept thinking that I would never feel the same about it as I did with experiencing GT1 for the first time.

I took a few laps around in arcade mode just to get a feel for the changes in physics. Noticed right away a lot of understeer but from what I read that is one of the effects present in the new engine. At this point I was slightly underwhelmed as I noted the AI still seemed to be the same old AI. At that point I decided to dive into GT mode. At first I was dreading the license tests. But after a passing a few of the tests it all started to click and I felt that same obsession that I had with GT1 in trying to further my times. I think that's when it hit me, that I love GT more for the accomplishment of improving my own driving skill, not necessarily beating some AI car. Seeing yourself pass your own ghost to a faster time is a nice feeling as you aim for those gold trohpies. So I passed my first test and got into some races. Started to look at the AI as more of a "pace" to try and match instead of actual live opponents I'm trying to beat. It's almost like they are an extention to the ghost car idea, they give you something to shoot for time wise.

I'm not an expert on describing car physics but overall it does seem deeper than GT3. Ill have to take the word of others who have more experience in that area who say that GT4 has deffinatly improved here. Each of the cars does seem to have more personality, although I can't exactly verify if thats due to correct physics or not. I'm still too new to this series and my driving chops aren't up to the level they need to be in order to fully enjoy those changes that do exist. I've also read that the DFP is essential for getting the most of out the feel of the cars and track.

The graphics are deffinatly nicer and I think they really do tie into the "gameplay" to an extent. The better the graphics the better immersed you can feel in the environment and to me thats part of what GT is about.

Didn't get too far into the tuning or upgrade options although I did notice 3rd party parts available which I think is a new addition, not sure. The sound seems fine, perhaps a little on the raspy side for some of the engines I tested.
The menus got a nice facelift and overall this has that slick presentation you expect for the series.

Anways I wish I could go into more details in the driving physics. I have a feeling this is where the meat of the fun is going to be in conjucntion with the graphics/environments. After playing this I don't think the IGN score of 9.5 is off the mark as long as you don't care too much about the AI/racing aspect of the game, which I don't. Most of the fun I've had already is just with the license tests themselves. What I loved in the original was progessing further and further with my driving skill in the game until I was able to really feel in control of the car. At that point its a pretty exhilarating experience on its own right, AI cars or not. So perhaps not exactly an innovation its deffinatly a great step up from previous versions of GT. As long as its few flaws don't bug you too much there is deffinatly a killer game here.

[Medway]

Re: GT4 review.

Solid gameplay with weak AI???? That makes ZERO sense.

Yes it does if you don't care about the AI cars. There's tons of gameplay there without it.

[Medway]

Re: GT4 review.

Solid gameplay with weak AI???? That makes ZERO sense.

Yes it does if you don't care about the AI cars. There's tons of gameplay there without it.

[Medway]

Re: GT4 review.

Enjoy GT, I'll probably rent it eventually and see what all the fuss is all about. What killed it as a purchase for me is the lack of Live play, I've got too many games to play right now as it is, and I spend a lot of my gaming time online against other OS'ers, so this lost the playtime battle as of now. I think GT4 with online racing would be amazing, the computer AI wouldn't matter.

Supposedly there is working online play using Xlink. I havent tried it yet though but if it does work that will pretty much kill the AI debate for me.

[Medway]

Re: GT4 review.

Enjoy GT, I'll probably rent it eventually and see what all the fuss is all about. What killed it as a purchase for me is the lack of Live play, I've got too many games to play right now as it is, and I spend a lot of my gaming time online against other OS'ers, so this lost the playtime battle as of now. I think GT4 with online racing would be amazing, the computer AI wouldn't matter.

Supposedly there is working online play using Xlink. I havent tried it yet though but if it does work that will pretty much kill the AI debate for me.

[pk500]

Re: GT4 review.

Ok I'm not going to try and refute anything you've read he because I never made any claims in the first place other than hearsay. I will give my impressions though after a few hours of playing last nite.

First of all I deffinatly agree that the series has shown litttle innovation in the past few installments. Even though I had my hopes up for GT4 in the back of my mind I kept thinking that I would never feel the same about it as I did with experiencing GT1 for the first time.

I took a few laps around in arcade mode just to get a feel for the changes in physics. Noticed right away a lot of understeer but from what I read that is one of the effects present in the new engine. At this point I was slightly underwhelmed as I noted the AI still seemed to be the same old AI. At that point I decided to dive into GT mode. At first I was dreading the license tests. But after a passing a few of the tests it all started to click and I felt that same obsession that I had with GT1 in trying to further my times. I think that's when it hit me, that I love GT more for the accomplishment of improving my own driving skill, not necessarily beating some AI car. Seeing yourself pass your own ghost to a faster time is a nice feeling as you aim for those gold trohpies. So I passed my first test and got into some races. Started to look at the AI as more of a "pace" to try and match instead of actual live opponents I'm trying to beat. It's almost like they are an extention to the ghost car idea, they give you something to shoot for time wise.

I'm not an expert on describing car physics but overall it does seem deeper than GT3. Ill have to take the word of others who have more experience in that area who say that GT4 has deffinatly improved here. Each of the cars does seem to have more personality, although I can't exactly verify if thats due to correct physics or not. I'm still too new to this series and my driving chops aren't up to the level they need to be in order to fully enjoy those changes that do exist. I've also read that the DFP is essential for getting the most of out the feel of the cars and track.

The graphics are deffinatly nicer and I think they really do tie into the "gameplay" to an extent. The better the graphics the better immersed you can feel in the environment and to me thats part of what GT is about.

Didn't get too far into the tuning or upgrade options although I did notice 3rd party parts available which I think is a new addition, not sure. The sound seems fine, perhaps a little on the raspy side for some of the engines I tested.
The menus got a nice facelift and overall this has that slick presentation you expect for the series.

Anways I wish I could go into more details in the driving physics. I have a feeling this is where the meat of the fun is going to be in conjucntion with the graphics/environments. After playing this I don't think the IGN score of 9.5 is off the mark as long as you don't care too much about the AI/racing aspect of the game, which I don't. Most of the fun I've had already is just with the license tests themselves. What I loved in the original was progessing further and further with my driving skill in the game until I was able to really feel in control of the car. At that point its a pretty exhilarating experience on its own right, AI cars or not. So perhaps not exactly an innovation its deffinatly a great step up from previous versions of GT. As long as its few flaws don't bug you too much there is deffinatly a killer game here.

Thanks, man. Good post. Appreciate the info.

Take care,
PK

[pk500]

Re: GT4 review.

Ok I'm not going to try and refute anything you've read he because I never made any claims in the first place other than hearsay. I will give my impressions though after a few hours of playing last nite.

First of all I deffinatly agree that the series has shown litttle innovation in the past few installments. Even though I had my hopes up for GT4 in the back of my mind I kept thinking that I would never feel the same about it as I did with experiencing GT1 for the first time.

I took a few laps around in arcade mode just to get a feel for the changes in physics. Noticed right away a lot of understeer but from what I read that is one of the effects present in the new engine. At this point I was slightly underwhelmed as I noted the AI still seemed to be the same old AI. At that point I decided to dive into GT mode. At first I was dreading the license tests. But after a passing a few of the tests it all started to click and I felt that same obsession that I had with GT1 in trying to further my times. I think that's when it hit me, that I love GT more for the accomplishment of improving my own driving skill, not necessarily beating some AI car. Seeing yourself pass your own ghost to a faster time is a nice feeling as you aim for those gold trohpies. So I passed my first test and got into some races. Started to look at the AI as more of a "pace" to try and match instead of actual live opponents I'm trying to beat. It's almost like they are an extention to the ghost car idea, they give you something to shoot for time wise.

I'm not an expert on describing car physics but overall it does seem deeper than GT3. Ill have to take the word of others who have more experience in that area who say that GT4 has deffinatly improved here. Each of the cars does seem to have more personality, although I can't exactly verify if thats due to correct physics or not. I'm still too new to this series and my driving chops aren't up to the level they need to be in order to fully enjoy those changes that do exist. I've also read that the DFP is essential for getting the most of out the feel of the cars and track.

The graphics are deffinatly nicer and I think they really do tie into the "gameplay" to an extent. The better the graphics the better immersed you can feel in the environment and to me thats part of what GT is about.

Didn't get too far into the tuning or upgrade options although I did notice 3rd party parts available which I think is a new addition, not sure. The sound seems fine, perhaps a little on the raspy side for some of the engines I tested.
The menus got a nice facelift and overall this has that slick presentation you expect for the series.

Anways I wish I could go into more details in the driving physics. I have a feeling this is where the meat of the fun is going to be in conjucntion with the graphics/environments. After playing this I don't think the IGN score of 9.5 is off the mark as long as you don't care too much about the AI/racing aspect of the game, which I don't. Most of the fun I've had already is just with the license tests themselves. What I loved in the original was progessing further and further with my driving skill in the game until I was able to really feel in control of the car. At that point its a pretty exhilarating experience on its own right, AI cars or not. So perhaps not exactly an innovation its deffinatly a great step up from previous versions of GT. As long as its few flaws don't bug you too much there is deffinatly a killer game here.

Thanks, man. Good post. Appreciate the info.

Take care,
PK