GT4 review.

[rastak]

Re: GT4 review.

I play games for fun too, but realism tends to be part of the fun...try telling all the fans of football games to quit bitching and take up playing real football when they complain about unrealistic parts of the games...

I haven't played a GT game in years, so I have no comment on any of these discussions, but it is legit to criticize a game for realism, especially if it touts itself as a simulator.

I do agree with you in concept though. A lot of times people let the search for realism (sliders, bug searching, insessant testing of games) ruin the fun.

Enjoy GT, I'll probably rent it eventually and see what all the fuss is all about. What killed it as a purchase for me is the lack of Live play, I've got too many games to play right now as it is, and I spend a lot of my gaming time online against other OS'ers, so this lost the playtime battle as of now. I think GT4 with online racing would be amazing, the computer AI wouldn't matter.

I think you and I are probably pretty similar in our thoughts here. Realism plays a part in the enjoyment of these games. But it isn't the be all end all. If the cars can fly that might be a little too much......but I'm fine with what they've put in this game.

[rastak]

Re: GT4 review.

I play games for fun too, but realism tends to be part of the fun...try telling all the fans of football games to quit bitching and take up playing real football when they complain about unrealistic parts of the games...

I haven't played a GT game in years, so I have no comment on any of these discussions, but it is legit to criticize a game for realism, especially if it touts itself as a simulator.

I do agree with you in concept though. A lot of times people let the search for realism (sliders, bug searching, insessant testing of games) ruin the fun.

Enjoy GT, I'll probably rent it eventually and see what all the fuss is all about. What killed it as a purchase for me is the lack of Live play, I've got too many games to play right now as it is, and I spend a lot of my gaming time online against other OS'ers, so this lost the playtime battle as of now. I think GT4 with online racing would be amazing, the computer AI wouldn't matter.

I think you and I are probably pretty similar in our thoughts here. Realism plays a part in the enjoyment of these games. But it isn't the be all end all. If the cars can fly that might be a little too much......but I'm fine with what they've put in this game.

[jmood88]

Re: GT4 review.

Yes it does if you don't care about the AI cars. There's tons of gameplay there without it.

Well then it isn't ai, you are the one driving it.

[jmood88]

Re: GT4 review.

Yes it does if you don't care about the AI cars. There's tons of gameplay there without it.

Well then it isn't ai, you are the one driving it.

[GB33]

Re: GT4 review.

Then let me be direct: Either you must prefer arcade driving games or have little skill with setups or driving with sims. The Pro (top) level is the only level on which IndyCar Series 2005 is even remotely competitive and fun. It's the level on which the game was designed to be played.

IndyCar Series 2005 has plenty of flaws, but gameplay, driving model and racing model aren't among them. It's not a game for drivers who need training wheels.

Take care,
PK

Okay, I do not prefer arcade racing, though I highly enjoy the GT series for what it is, very fun and exciting, and deep. Of course I know that slamming into a car or a wall or a 6" curb on a moutainside and sustaining damage is not realistic. But "racing" your car at your best against the other cars of near power and characteristics and edging out at the finish is what I like about it. Then moving on to the next event and race type and manufacurer is what brings me back.
On the more "sim" side I really really like the Pro Race Driver/Toca series. Enjoy it alot, just in a different way than GT, I take the games for what they are. But just because a car does or does not sustain damage does not make it a "sim" or great game or bad game.
In regards to the IRL game; if you can honestly tell me that you can compete and win races at the highest level without hsving just rediculous settings then I would either call you a liar or a one of a kind. I tried mercifally (sp?) to go around corners at 1/2 the speed of the AI cars for the first 5 laps and it is not possible, it is not. The only things that I have found are absolutely ridiculous settings that are not realistic at all that involve raising the front end to retarted levels and tons of rear downforce, amongst other non-realistic crap. I want to enjoy that game as I like the IRL and with the inclusion of Honda as a manufacturer in last years game I was very excited. So if you have any tips there "o wise one" I would gladly listen. If not I will wait for your demeaning comments and insults.

[GB33]

Re: GT4 review.

Then let me be direct: Either you must prefer arcade driving games or have little skill with setups or driving with sims. The Pro (top) level is the only level on which IndyCar Series 2005 is even remotely competitive and fun. It's the level on which the game was designed to be played.

IndyCar Series 2005 has plenty of flaws, but gameplay, driving model and racing model aren't among them. It's not a game for drivers who need training wheels.

Take care,
PK

Okay, I do not prefer arcade racing, though I highly enjoy the GT series for what it is, very fun and exciting, and deep. Of course I know that slamming into a car or a wall or a 6" curb on a moutainside and sustaining damage is not realistic. But "racing" your car at your best against the other cars of near power and characteristics and edging out at the finish is what I like about it. Then moving on to the next event and race type and manufacurer is what brings me back.
On the more "sim" side I really really like the Pro Race Driver/Toca series. Enjoy it alot, just in a different way than GT, I take the games for what they are. But just because a car does or does not sustain damage does not make it a "sim" or great game or bad game.
In regards to the IRL game; if you can honestly tell me that you can compete and win races at the highest level without hsving just rediculous settings then I would either call you a liar or a one of a kind. I tried mercifally (sp?) to go around corners at 1/2 the speed of the AI cars for the first 5 laps and it is not possible, it is not. The only things that I have found are absolutely ridiculous settings that are not realistic at all that involve raising the front end to retarted levels and tons of rear downforce, amongst other non-realistic crap. I want to enjoy that game as I like the IRL and with the inclusion of Honda as a manufacturer in last years game I was very excited. So if you have any tips there "o wise one" I would gladly listen. If not I will wait for your demeaning comments and insults.

[pk500]

Re: GT4 review.

Okay, I do not prefer arcade racing, though I highly enjoy the GT series for what it is, very fun and exciting, and deep. Of course I know that slamming into a car or a wall or a 6" curb on a moutainside and sustaining damage is not realistic. But "racing" your car at your best against the other cars of near power and characteristics and edging out at the finish is what I like about it.

Fair enough. Although one of the big problems of the GT series, as nice as it is, is that you can often tune your car to simply overpower the opposition. That was a huge problem in GT 2, which had a really screwy car classification system. That was fixed somewhat in GT 3.

On the more "sim" side I really really like the Pro Race Driver/Toca series. Enjoy it alot, just in a different way than GT, I take the games for what they are. But just because a car does or does not sustain damage does not make it a "sim" or great game or bad game.

True, to a point. A sim driving game does not need damage. GT 4 is a driving game, so I suppose damage isn't essential. But a sim RACING game does need damage because damage occurs in real-life racing. There is a difference, and it's why I'm glad TOCA 2 does have a solid damage model that affects the performance of the car.

In regards to the IRL game; if you can honestly tell me that you can compete and win races at the highest level without hsving just rediculous settings then I would either call you a liar or a one of a kind. I tried mercifally (sp?) to go around corners at 1/2 the speed of the AI cars for the first 5 laps and it is not possible, it is not. The only things that I have found are absolutely ridiculous settings that are not realistic at all that involve raising the front end to retarted levels and tons of rear downforce, amongst other non-realistic crap. I want to enjoy that game as I like the IRL and with the inclusion of Honda as a manufacturer in last years game I was very excited. So if you have any tips there "o wise one" I would gladly listen. If not I will wait for your demeaning comments and insults.

No demeaning comments and insults. And that's not my only type of response in this Forum, if you've noticed other threads. I just don't suffer fools gladly, sorry.

Anyways, I have won races at Pro level in IndyCar Series without making the ridiculous setup changes that you noted. And I say ridiculous not directed toward you, but in acknowledgement that yes, those goofy setups do work and do exist. But that's not very fun or realistic -- we agree on that.

Here are a few setup tips. All you need to do to get a very stable, fast car on most tracks at the Pro level in IndyCar Series 2005 is to crank in a lot of front wing (increase the angle) and reduce the pressure of both front tires around 2 pounds.

What that does is eliminates the "push," or understeer, in the front end that's built in this game. The extra wing creates more grip in the front end, and the softer front tires cause the front end to "bite" more entering the corner, eliminating understeer.

You also should trim the rear wing angle to as minimal as possible without affecting the handling, to reduce drag. I usually drop it 2 or 3 degrees from default. You also can increase the pressure of the right rear tire by a pound or two to create more stagger, helping you turn more easily. Be careful with that adjustment, though, as overinflating the right rear can make the car very loose and want to spin.

That's it. I never touch the ride height, gearing or dampers. I just make slight adjustments to the front wing and front tire pressure, and sometimes adjust the rear wing and right rear tire pressure, depending on the track. That's it.

My only other tip is to run a fuel setting of 7, full rich, all the time. That will give you more speed.

I think one of the reasons that you were having trouble was that you were cranking all of the downforce into the rear of the car, which only exacerbates the understeer. Think about it -- by adding downforce to the rear, you're making the front of the car even lighter, which only will increase its tendency to not want to turn and head toward the outside wall. The downforce needs to be added to the FRONT, not the rear, as these cars are modeled with a bit of inherent understeer in this game.

NASCAR teams add spoiler to the rear of the car to improve the handling, but the physics are different in IndyCars because IndyCars have front and rear wings and because the weight of the engine in the front of a stock car has to be countered by extra downforce or spring changes in the rear. The engine is mounted in the rear of an IndyCar, so extra downforce in the rear, combined with the weight of the engine, will make the front end ridiculously light and cause the car to plow toward the outside wall in the corners like a dump truck.

I use these pretty basic settings, with a fuel mixture of 7, for qualifying and racing on the Pro level and win a decent share of poles and races.

Give them a try. They will work if you use proper lines in the corners, especially on superspeedways like California, Texas, Kansas, Chicagoland and Kentucky.

Good luck, and I hope these tips help!

Take care,
PK

[pk500]

Re: GT4 review.

Okay, I do not prefer arcade racing, though I highly enjoy the GT series for what it is, very fun and exciting, and deep. Of course I know that slamming into a car or a wall or a 6" curb on a moutainside and sustaining damage is not realistic. But "racing" your car at your best against the other cars of near power and characteristics and edging out at the finish is what I like about it.

Fair enough. Although one of the big problems of the GT series, as nice as it is, is that you can often tune your car to simply overpower the opposition. That was a huge problem in GT 2, which had a really screwy car classification system. That was fixed somewhat in GT 3.

On the more "sim" side I really really like the Pro Race Driver/Toca series. Enjoy it alot, just in a different way than GT, I take the games for what they are. But just because a car does or does not sustain damage does not make it a "sim" or great game or bad game.

True, to a point. A sim driving game does not need damage. GT 4 is a driving game, so I suppose damage isn't essential. But a sim RACING game does need damage because damage occurs in real-life racing. There is a difference, and it's why I'm glad TOCA 2 does have a solid damage model that affects the performance of the car.

In regards to the IRL game; if you can honestly tell me that you can compete and win races at the highest level without hsving just rediculous settings then I would either call you a liar or a one of a kind. I tried mercifally (sp?) to go around corners at 1/2 the speed of the AI cars for the first 5 laps and it is not possible, it is not. The only things that I have found are absolutely ridiculous settings that are not realistic at all that involve raising the front end to retarted levels and tons of rear downforce, amongst other non-realistic crap. I want to enjoy that game as I like the IRL and with the inclusion of Honda as a manufacturer in last years game I was very excited. So if you have any tips there "o wise one" I would gladly listen. If not I will wait for your demeaning comments and insults.

No demeaning comments and insults. And that's not my only type of response in this Forum, if you've noticed other threads. I just don't suffer fools gladly, sorry.

Anyways, I have won races at Pro level in IndyCar Series without making the ridiculous setup changes that you noted. And I say ridiculous not directed toward you, but in acknowledgement that yes, those goofy setups do work and do exist. But that's not very fun or realistic -- we agree on that.

Here are a few setup tips. All you need to do to get a very stable, fast car on most tracks at the Pro level in IndyCar Series 2005 is to crank in a lot of front wing (increase the angle) and reduce the pressure of both front tires around 2 pounds.

What that does is eliminates the "push," or understeer, in the front end that's built in this game. The extra wing creates more grip in the front end, and the softer front tires cause the front end to "bite" more entering the corner, eliminating understeer.

You also should trim the rear wing angle to as minimal as possible without affecting the handling, to reduce drag. I usually drop it 2 or 3 degrees from default. You also can increase the pressure of the right rear tire by a pound or two to create more stagger, helping you turn more easily. Be careful with that adjustment, though, as overinflating the right rear can make the car very loose and want to spin.

That's it. I never touch the ride height, gearing or dampers. I just make slight adjustments to the front wing and front tire pressure, and sometimes adjust the rear wing and right rear tire pressure, depending on the track. That's it.

My only other tip is to run a fuel setting of 7, full rich, all the time. That will give you more speed.

I think one of the reasons that you were having trouble was that you were cranking all of the downforce into the rear of the car, which only exacerbates the understeer. Think about it -- by adding downforce to the rear, you're making the front of the car even lighter, which only will increase its tendency to not want to turn and head toward the outside wall. The downforce needs to be added to the FRONT, not the rear, as these cars are modeled with a bit of inherent understeer in this game.

NASCAR teams add spoiler to the rear of the car to improve the handling, but the physics are different in IndyCars because IndyCars have front and rear wings and because the weight of the engine in the front of a stock car has to be countered by extra downforce or spring changes in the rear. The engine is mounted in the rear of an IndyCar, so extra downforce in the rear, combined with the weight of the engine, will make the front end ridiculously light and cause the car to plow toward the outside wall in the corners like a dump truck.

I use these pretty basic settings, with a fuel mixture of 7, for qualifying and racing on the Pro level and win a decent share of poles and races.

Give them a try. They will work if you use proper lines in the corners, especially on superspeedways like California, Texas, Kansas, Chicagoland and Kentucky.

Good luck, and I hope these tips help!

Take care,
PK

[Metman24]

Re: GT4 review.

As much as I have enjoyed all of the GT series games. I still can't for the life of me understand the lack of qualifying. All you need is one lap, or at least the option of running a one lap qualifier. I can't stand the concept of starting last in a race, some 8 or 9 car lengths back, with only two laps to capture the flag. If the AI of the computer cars is even the slightest bit competant, you should not even have a chance.

P.s. I am enjoying the game though.

[Metman24]

Re: GT4 review.

As much as I have enjoyed all of the GT series games. I still can't for the life of me understand the lack of qualifying. All you need is one lap, or at least the option of running a one lap qualifier. I can't stand the concept of starting last in a race, some 8 or 9 car lengths back, with only two laps to capture the flag. If the AI of the computer cars is even the slightest bit competant, you should not even have a chance.

P.s. I am enjoying the game though.

[GB33]

Re: GT4 review.

As much as I have enjoyed all of the GT series games. I still can't for the life of me understand the lack of qualifying. All you need is one lap, or at least the option of running a one lap qualifier. I can't stand the concept of starting last in a race, some 8 or 9 car lengths back, with only two laps to capture the flag. If the AI of the computer cars is even the slightest bit competant, you should not even have a chance.

P.s. I am enjoying the game though.

This is an unfortunate feature that was in the very first GT and for some reason is gone. I did notice during a FF race in professional races where you have to win the whole series, I did a practice run and was placed 2nd or 3rd. Now I do not know if that is why I was placed there or if it was due to my standings for the series at the time, I will need to do it again, but it seems like it was from my practice lap.

[GB33]

Re: GT4 review.

As much as I have enjoyed all of the GT series games. I still can't for the life of me understand the lack of qualifying. All you need is one lap, or at least the option of running a one lap qualifier. I can't stand the concept of starting last in a race, some 8 or 9 car lengths back, with only two laps to capture the flag. If the AI of the computer cars is even the slightest bit competant, you should not even have a chance.

P.s. I am enjoying the game though.

This is an unfortunate feature that was in the very first GT and for some reason is gone. I did notice during a FF race in professional races where you have to win the whole series, I did a practice run and was placed 2nd or 3rd. Now I do not know if that is why I was placed there or if it was due to my standings for the series at the time, I will need to do it again, but it seems like it was from my practice lap.

[GB33]

Re: GT4 review.

Give them a try. They will work if you use proper lines in the corners, especially on superspeedways like California, Texas, Kansas, Chicagoland and Kentucky.

Good luck, and I hope these tips help!

Take care,
PK

Great, thank you. I would give you a handshake if we were in person. I appreciate the entire post, and thank you kindly for the IRL tips. I will have to blow the dust off of it and give it another go. Thanks again.

[GB33]

Re: GT4 review.

Give them a try. They will work if you use proper lines in the corners, especially on superspeedways like California, Texas, Kansas, Chicagoland and Kentucky.

Good luck, and I hope these tips help!

Take care,
PK

Great, thank you. I would give you a handshake if we were in person. I appreciate the entire post, and thank you kindly for the IRL tips. I will have to blow the dust off of it and give it another go. Thanks again.

[pk500]

Re: GT4 review.

Great, thank you. I would give you a handshake if we were in person. I appreciate the entire post, and thank you kindly for the IRL tips. I will have to blow the dust off of it and give it another go. Thanks again.

My pleasure. Make those setup changes, drive it like you stole it and then have your girl wear the checkered flag as lingerie during your post-race "fun" in the team hauler!

Take care,
PK