Xbox One

[Skyboxer]

Re: Xbox 720

I thing this gen has been "ok". Nothing more nothing less. I'd take the PS2/XBOX gen over this gen 10 out of 10 times based on sports choices alone let alone the more varied games then.
Of course this in totally in relation to what each gamer likes and dislikes.

However I am excited for next gen. Mainly to see if we do get more varied games and if we really will more advancement in football.

[23]

Re: Xbox 720

The PS2 didn't really gain much, if any, real library after 2006, but 1/3 of the final console sales happened after then. The library didn't change, so what did? Not sure if you remember, but after the PS3 came out was when Sony would start bundling controllers and games. They dropped the price to $130 and started bundling multiple games and controllers. That's what changed.

There are always going to be little issues, there were issues for PS2 vs PSX as well, there were issues going from Genesis/SNES to PSX. I guess it's all based on personal perspective and how you want to color things.

and again you keep arguing something im not.. my original point was, and regardless of whatever reasons you feel the PS2 kept selling well or not.. there were some genre's that got stale as heck, some games that lacked support solely, alot of games in the sports genre that died off to almost nothing at all, but yes you're right... it means nothing if you act like it didnt happen.

Either way, doesn't matter... I still don't like the idea of them tossing any SP into the back burner, and the main reason for all of the changes are basically for the bottom line. Makes me think it only matter so much or not at all what you want as a customer will continue to be the trend for some companies period.

[Hooe]

Re: Xbox 720

Nowhere did I say "every game released nowadays is crap." They don't hold a candle to the older games in terms of most things (aside from visual quality, which is obviously 1000x better.)

Not to derail the thread, but what do you personally value in a game? Quality of narrative? Balanced and deep gameplay? Simple inventive mechanics which lead to clever level design and emergent gameplay? Great sound design and musical score? Ability to produce and consume user-generated content? Overall total package? What exactly did older games do so great that newer games have not been able to do or do as well? I submit that there exist plenty of games this console generation which have done all of the above and to a greater extent than previous generation titles by-and-large.

What I am trying to determine is if you truly think that games by and large better on older hardware based on something that you feel current-generation games have not accomplished, or if you are just waxing nostalgic. For me, I know that I could sing the graces and successes of old-school PC shooters such as Doom, Duke Nukem 3D, Quake, and more recently TimeSplitters, Half Life, and Halo 2 all day, but I also recognize that the first-person shooter genre has progressed today beyond what these games and their peers of the day can offer.

EDIT - to be clear, it's my intent here only to understand your perspective better. Having read my post again, my writing style is a bit terse.

[ubernoob]

Re: Xbox 720

See, I'm the other way on sports games.

Give me this generation of sports games 10/10 times. Every other genre? PSX/PS2 wins hands down.

Nothing from PSX/PS2 gen can touch The Show, NBA 2K, PES2013, FIFA is much better (though still not realistic at all) and I see no difference in gameplay to note from Madden (only better visual quality, when paired with the same gameplay means it's a better game to me.)

And now I see the above post. Hold on, I'll edit in my answer.

The simple answer? I value everything. Everything but DLC that is. I don't value DLC in the least, and see it as horrible for the console gaming industry - but that's neither here nor there.

The long answer? Well here goes a rant. I'll use multiple genres here as an example. I'll lead off with JRPGs.

The genre itself is waning. The cause of that decline is multi-pronged to me. The rise of the Western RPGs (akin to Skyrim) have suited a larger audience but another cause of the decline of the genre is a decline in the quality of the games.

Take Ni No Kuni, which to me is the best console RPG released this generation. I absolutely loved the game. As I have posted in the official game thread, the first time you see the world map is stunningly beautiful and I haven't seen anything like it in video gaming. Ever. The story was intriguing and well thought out, and the audio was well done. The story's pacing was well-done for the most part. It had new relatively intriguing mechanics based around the story (the act of giving/taking pieces of heart.) The localization and sound was top notch (which should have been a given considering it was Studio Ghibli.) The battle system, while not bad in and of itself, was severely hampered by horrendous AI. It gave you two compadres to waltz around this gorgeous world with, but when it came down to it they were absolutely useless for anything outside of 15 seconds. The only way to get them to work properly was to keep switching control of them to yourself. It would have been much better suited to either fix the AI (preferably) or just make it a turn-based game because in essence the only way to get the companions to do anything was by turning it into a horrendous turn-based hybrid.

The term "greater than the sum of it's parts" is the most important phrase here for video games of all generations. I think we are in a bad generation of consoles when I can list 5+ games from each older generation in a genre that I would rather play than (what I consider) the best from that genre in the current gen.

I'll use Final Fantasy VII as my previous gen RPG. I don't even think it is the best Final Fantasy from that generation but it will serve to prove my personal views.

Graphics - Obviously Ni No Kuni blows FFVII out of the water in graphic quality. Any new generation game will. However, I think the art style and direction of FFVII's locales, enemies and characters stands up to NNK's. Going inside the Mako Reactor's, all the different towns, the glitzy Gold Saucer and the town of Wutai all have separate feelings that they evoke just as well as any game with perfectly crafted next-generation graphics.

Sound - The same can be said for sound. We may get more "realistic" music and sounds in games - but it isn't about how real it is. It's about the feelings the sounds and music evoke. The music from FFVII is head and shoulders above Ni No Kuni's in terms of it's impact on player during whatever part of the game. The soundtracks themselves should be interwoven into the gameplay almost becoming an entity itself. For the record, I think Eternal Sonata did this very well this gen (but as a game with the central theme being music, it should have.)

Gameplay/Battle Mechanics - This is where FFVII absolutely destroys NNK for me. Is the system dated? Yes. Dated does not mean ineffective though. I understand the want/need in developing to push things forward and try to explore new territories in what a game will play like. The thing is, the ideas may be there but the implementation rarely is. I still think the FF12 gambit system is a great idea if you want faster-paced battles, but even in that game it didn't have the greatest implementation. Did they refine it? No, they switched systems for their next game into something even worse. Video games don't always need to re-invent the wheel.

Story - This is where everything above comes together. If you want me to play some dark, brooding storyline everything above has to match. If I'm watching friends be tortured, killed and/or otherwise having a tough go of things... the world better not be full of sunshine and rainbows. I don't care how "realistic" or "unrealistic" a story is because I play video games to suspend disbelief and have fun. Logical story, yes. If I am made king of something, I am not going to just go on some rampage killing all my citizens because I felt like it. Characters should have some sort of depth/backstory even if they aren't necessarily evolving throughout the course of the game (which not all characters have to do.)

Are there things this generation does better than previous generations in terms of game "quality"? Yes, undoubtedly, there are. However, for some reason I am still trying to figure out myself (and I have papers written on this because when I get bored I write about video games) is why none of it can come together to form a complete package. Everything about this generation looks good on paper, but it hasn't hit that "greater than the sum of it's parts" category yet.

FPS is a bit different to me. I play console FPS to have fun in the single player mode. Competitive FPS on a console is lost on me, as that is literally tailor-made for PC gaming. Also, Counter-Strike 1.3 is still the best competitive FPS ever made.

I don't have much to compare the FPS genre this generation to something in the older generations because it wasn't a title that got much focus - aside from WW2 shooters that were a dime a dozen. The old medal of honor series were quite fun, but I didn't play them much.

Spec Ops: The Line is the best FPS made to me this gen, because it had the most "oomph" of everything. The story WAS the focus of that game. Everything else was executed fairly well, being an FPS there's really only so many tweaks one can make if they want their game to be any success at all.

My issue was the length. 8-10 hours? That's a joke. Literally. I'm expected to pay 6 dollars an hour for entertainment? I'd rather blow my money on a movie that could have told that story more effectively.

Video games to me should be an art form, but the way things stand now we are moving more and more away from that concept. Now it's just money being chased by a lot of releases. Big name developers don't interact with their audience, that is simply unheard of for the most part. I'm currently beta testing a PC game that is in closed beta, and the amount of dev interaction that we have right now astounds me (in a good way.) We get updates houly, and engage in meaningful conversations with them that actually have an impact on the game (for better or worse.) The sad part is, this is like a crew of 50-100 devs that are doing this ON THE SIDE. They have other jobs they are working at as well, helping fund this by their other jobs. The only thing they want is to release a game they love to play, and hope that the community does too. They aren't chasing after other games saying "WE WANT THE MONEY THEY ARE MAKING!"

If video gaming is ever to be taken seriously as an art form (which I truly hope for in the future) they have to start focusing on the total package of the game, which is just lacking overall this generation. Some games have done well at this (Red Dead Redemption springs to mind) but as a whole, this generation has been lacking compared to the previous two.

[Burns11]

Re: Xbox 720

AAA games cost more to make than ever (two recent releases, Tomb Raider and Bioshock Infinite, both reportedly had budgets which exceeded $100M)

AAA titles don't have to cost that much, first two Uncharted games had $20m budgets, Heavy Rain was $20m, Beyond: Two Souls was "about" the same as Heavy Rain (so at least under $30m). So AAA titles don't NEED these huge budgets, it's just these companies using it as an excuse to be extravagant.

[Hooe]

Re: Xbox 720

AAA titles don't have to cost that much, first two Uncharted games had $20m budgets, Heavy Rain was $20m, Beyond: Two Souls was "about" the same as Heavy Rain (so at least under $30m). So AAA titles don't NEED these huge budgets, it's just these companies using it as an excuse to be extravagant.

I see your point and I agree with it. Some projects are outright mismanaged, and some projects are simply extreme because the game in question is an overly ambitious one.

However, I must add to your point that $20M is still a lot of money. All it takes is one $20M video game which doesn't recoup that cost to sink a publisher, thus their risk aversion when deciding which games to fund.

[Skyboxer]

Re: Xbox 720

See, I'm the other way on sports games.

Give me this generation of sports games 10/10 times. Every other genre? PSX/PS2 wins hands down.

Nothing from PSX/PS2 gen can touch The Show, NBA 2K, PES2013, FIFA is much better (though still not realistic at all) and I see no difference in gameplay to note from Madden (only better visual quality, when paired with the same gameplay means it's a better game to me.)

And now I see the above post. Hold on, I'll edit in my answer.

We had choices back then and since my favorite is NFL that seals it.
I maintain and always will that if we had competition we'd have a much better and more advances FB game by now.
Also why I said it was dependent on what the gamer likes.

That coupled with other games I loved (RE, Fatal Frames etc...) this gen has been very weak.
I could care less about stuuf like "COD: Hardened Because Your Momma's Hot- Deep Undercover Edition"

[Burns11]

Re: Xbox 720

and again you keep arguing something im not.. my original point was, and regardless of whatever reasons you feel the PS2 kept selling well or not.. there were some genre's that got stale as heck, some games that lacked support solely, alot of games in the sports genre that died off to almost nothing at all, but yes you're right... it means nothing if you act like it didnt happen.

You argued that the PS2 kept selling because of some great software library and I rebuffed that with my take on it.

As far as your second point, I had already addressed that, or maybe I did and didn't end up posting it. Some genres are going to die, it's just a fact of progress, but I'd say far fewer genres dies PS2-PS3 era than any previous. But that's not to say there haven't been plenty of new areas explored and that there's not plenty of variety in games. Outside of sports games, which is just a corporate cluster**** you blame the NFL for, I'm not seeing this great loss. I'm just not.

Either way, doesn't matter... I still don't like the idea of them tossing any SP into the back burner, and the main reason for all of the changes are basically for the bottom line. Makes me think it only matter so much or not at all what you want as a customer will continue to be the trend for some companies period.

I don't play multiplayer, at all. If all games went multiplayer, I wouldn't be a gamer anymore. There are a lot of multiplayer games, and multiplayer modes, but that doesn't diminish the depth and breadth of single player games from this gen. I'm not even sure there are as many games I have a distaste for this gen than previous gens, it's just easier to pick them out because they tend to be multiplayer focused FPS. If I was to list my top 50 games of all time, I get the feeling just as many would have "PS3" beside them as "PS2".

[DJ]

Re: Xbox 720

I thing this gen has been "ok". Nothing more nothing less. I'd take the PS2/XBOX gen over this gen 10 out of 10 times based on sports choices alone let alone the more varied games then.
Of course this in totally in relation to what each gamer likes and dislikes.

However I am excited for next gen. Mainly to see if we do get more varied games and if we really will more advancement in football.

Outside of The Show and NBA 2K, I've been terribly underwhelmed with the sports game genre this generation of consoles. We really need to see a big upgrade in AI and CPU behavior in Madden and NCAA.

Thankfully there were a lot of solid non-sports games (don't play FPS or RPG) like Uncharted 1-3 and Batman: AA & AC that exceeded my expectations.

The rise of the Arcade games was refreshing, too. Games like Shadow Complex, Limbo, Trials, Braid, Fez and a host of others were some of my best investments.

[iLLosophy]

Re: Xbox 720

+1

The indy/arcade games often times bring me nostalgia of the creativity that went into the old 8-bit and 16-bit games

[Crimsontide27]

Re: Xbox 720

Its all about the ERA that you found gaming, thats usually going to be where nostaliga starts to kick in. To sit here and act like this was a wasted generation seems harsh to me, as there were many advances to where we are at today.

It wasnt long ago that a football game released that had a grand total of 4 offensive and 4 defensive plays and many consider it one of the greatest of all times, and now we have games that have over 10,000 animations and a myriad of other aspects and the most vocal complaints are nut cups and socks.

There was a focus study done a few years ago where different age groups were brought in to play a variety of older and newer games. The older gamers tended to enjoy the older titles due to nostalgia and the memories they had while playing the games back when they were relevant. The middle crowd seemed to enjoy the middle aged titles because, suprise suprise....its what they grew up with. There wasnt 1 person in the youngest group that enjoyed any of the titles that we would consider cult classics.


TLDR...

The market shifts and game companies follow or go bankrupt. Depending on when you grew up has a great effect on what you like or dont like today.

[ubernoob]

That's funny that's mentioned because I grew up starting with NES... The majority of my formative gaming was with SNES & Genesis, but there are very few games from those 2 consoles that I look back too fondly on.

Zelda: LTTP, Chrono Trigger, Mutant League Football (genesis), super baseball 2020, Mortal Kombat 3 and FFVI are the only ones I can realistically be fun for me today - as opposed to the lonnnnnnnng list from PS2/XBox, PSX and (to a much lesser degree) PS3.

Its always YMMV, though and that study came to what was probably the only realistic conclusion.

[Crimsontide27]

Re: Xbox 720

That's funny that's mentioned because I grew up starting with NES... The majority of my formative gaming was with SNES & Genesis, but there are very few games from those 2 consoles that I look back too fondly on.

Zelda: LTTP, Chrono Trigger, Mutant League Football (genesis), super baseball 2020, Mortal Kombat 3 and FFVI are the only ones I can realistically be fun for me today - as opposed to the lonnnnnnnng list from PS2/XBox, PSX and (to a much lesser degree) PS3.

Its always YMMV, though and that study came to what was probably the only realistic conclusion.

The life cycle of consoles back then was much shorter than by todays standard. If you grew up with the NES era, then its most likely that many of your systems overlapped the same time period. The NES didnt grab a foothold in the USA until late 1986ish with the Genesis / Snes / Playstation all coming out quickly right behind it.

If I remember correctly the Genesis came out in 1989 with the SNES coming out right behind it in 1990. The Playstation came out only 4 years later.

The console life cycle was fast and furious back then as opposed to today. The PS3 and 360 are both about 8 years old now and that would cover 3 to 4 different generations of console releases back then.

Look at what all released in the same time span as just the 360 and PS3s life cycle has been....Ill only include mainstream systems and not the "1-offs" like the Epoch that most people never heard of.

8 year life cycle--- 1986-1994

NES
Sega Master System
Atari 7800
TurboGrafx-16
Sega Genesis
SuperGrafx
Neo Geo
SNES
Phillips CD-i
Turbo Duo
Panasonic 3DO
Atari Jaquar
Amiga CD32

8 year life cycle ------ 1994 - 2002

Saturn
Playstation
Neo Geo CD
NEC PC-FX
Virtua Boy
Nintendo 64
Dreamcast
Playstation 2
Gamecube
Xbox


Current generation. 2002-Current. 11 YEARS!!

Xbox 360
Playstation 3
Wii
Wii U

As you can see , it really has a lot to do with when you grow up on gaming. 8 year used to mean a huge paradigm shift in gaming, where as today you wont see near the same gains as you used to.

[iLLosophy]

Re: Xbox 720

Its all about the ERA that you found gaming, thats usually going to be where nostaliga starts to kick in.

Is not so much the Era I was born in, that it is the fact that I've been gaming so long that I've begun to see a pattern of the same thing happening over and over again.

Same thing with movies right? How many more Batman/Superman rehashes must I live through? But when I have kids and take them to see the movie, this will be a completely new and original experience for them. And all those old movies I enjoyed will suck to them.


Ahh....the fun of getting old.

[mestevo]

Re: Xbox 720

I know some have taken the previous rumors as gospel that it will always be online and then conveniently haven't applied the same gospel to the same sources recanting those rumors, but perhaps this will be good enough for now:

Microsoft: Next Xbox will work even when your Internet doesn’t

"There are a number of scenarios that our users expect to work without an Internet connection, and those should 'just work' regardless of their current connection status. Those include, but are not limited to: playing a Blu-ray disc, watching live TV, and yes playing a single player game."