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  • Crimsontide27
    MVP
    • Jul 2004
    • 1505

    #1156
    Re: Xbox 720

    Originally posted by Skyboxer
    Main thing for me is I feel there was very little creativity.
    Cookie cutter after cookie cutter FPS was this gen.
    Yes there were a few outside the norm games but overall this was the FPS gen.
    There wasn't many chances taken and .. it's to easy to do whats been working and rehash and rebox it as like you said.. the funding is what matters.

    Having all in one systems is fine. I just wan to see some new IP's. as first and foremost I'm a gamer and want a gaming machine.

    I'm not as much into gaming for the sake of gaming these days. I need something to draw me in and I hope this new gen does that.
    Its going to be hard to see very many new IPs from outside the major publishers due to the cost just to get a game on the market. People seem to think that the games sell for $60 and all that money goes back to the publisher / developer, but thats far from the case.

    Most companies can only expect to make anywhere from 15%-30% on that $60 dollar purchase. It all depends on how the contracts are written up, but for the sake of math and giving a company the benefit of the doubt, we will say 40%.

    So out of that $60, the developer and publisher split that 40%, which gives us around $24 revenue per game sold. The average cost of taking a game from concept to your door is around $30m. So now you take that $30 and divide that by $24 which gives us about 1.25million.

    This means that a company would have to sell 1.25m copies of a title JUST to break even, thats without even 1 cent of profit. Keep in mind that these games take 2-4 years to make as well. Imagine working on something for 4 years and risking not only making no profit, but taking a big loss as well.

    Full featured console titles have become too expensive for the majority of game studios to risk producing and quite a few studios have gone to mobile gaming due to the lack of expense and very generous revenue stream it brings.

    This is why you see so many rehashed titles now. You dont have to reinvent the wheel at every turn...just simply slap a new map pack on a game thats already made and just make it a sequel. Even with CoDs popularity, it took awhile to become profitable when it first released and now that it has a cult following, they will just tweak and refine for awhile. Right now they are going to milk CoD for all its worth, but they are going to stagger them out slower. The entire industry watched the Guitar Hero / Rock Band craze get shot down very rapidly almost overnight, so many are watching to see what happens with the FPS craze.

    Comment

    • Skyboxer
      Donny Baseball!
      • Jul 2002
      • 20302

      #1157
      Re: Xbox 720

      Been gaming since pong so I know the industry pretty well.
      My point is that's exactly whats wrong. Companies aren't will to take risks these days and they re-boot/re-hash everything.

      Luckily gaming isn't a number 1 priority with me so the lack of interesting games getting released won't cause me much pain.
      Joshua:
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      a.k.a. Stephen W. Falken, 5 Tall Cedar Road, Goose Island, Oregon"


      Skyboxer OS TWITCH
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      • 23
        yellow
        • Sep 2002
        • 66469

        #1158
        Re: Xbox 720

        I gotta agree a bit with Skyboxer here..there were so many rehashes and copy cat games it almost felt like companies gave up on this gen.

        Customer service in this country has gone down the toilet, and I've seen alot of things whether its companies producing games then abandoning the support, or throwing out half done or unfinished games with patches months later that don't totally get rid of the issues that plagued some games for its entire series

        Once everything became about bottom line and not necessarily the quality and releasing great products, making exclusive licenses and so on...we saw things start to become less appealing. There really werent many if any games towards the end of this gen that was really a WOW we HAVE to have that game to release.

        Comment

        • ubernoob
          ****
          • Jul 2004
          • 15522

          #1159
          Re: Xbox 720

          Originally posted by SoAwesome
          So what is the problem with current generation or next gen?
          Look at the best selling console (without handhelds) list.

          #1: PS2 ~155 million consoles sold.
          #2: PSX ~102.5 million consoles sold.

          The PS3 and 360 are both sitting at around 77 million consoles sold.

          The PS2 (and PSX) were must-have consoles. The games for them were amazing, and nothing this gen really touches them.

          The only IP I can think of that improved in a good way was from God of War I/II to the God of War III release on the PS3. Sure, the graphics have gotten better in all of them - but the games themselves are nowhere near as fun.

          Final Fantasy had it's heyday on the PSX. Grand Theft Auto had it's best days (Vice City, San Andreas) on the PS2, though GTA V looks like it may change that though if it delivers on what all the information looks like. Xenogears and Xenosaga continued on the Wii with a strong follow-up (Xenoblade Chronicles.)

          Honestly, the best "system" from this generation is the DS/3DS. They have the games that provide the most fun factor - but I think that is because the console game industries are pricing themselves out of the game like crimson has been alluding to.

          They've all started to look for alternate revenue streams and all it does is cause issues with those that have been playing games and willing to devote the time to actually play games like they used to.
          bad

          Comment

          • Burns11
            Greatness Has Arrived
            • Mar 2007
            • 7406

            #1160
            Re: Xbox 720

            I think we are having a bit of rose colored glasses syndrome happening. The games weren't better, they were just all concentrated to one dominating platform. That's part of the problem now, instead of having one console with 100 million install base, you had two with around 50 million.

            Personally I hated the DS and would rank it as third on my worst platforms owned list (right behind the N64 and Wii, and right above the GBA).

            Comment

            • 23
              yellow
              • Sep 2002
              • 66469

              #1161
              Re: Xbox 720

              Originally posted by Burns11
              I think we are having a bit of rose colored glasses syndrome happening. The games weren't better, they were just all concentrated to one dominating platform. That's part of the problem now, instead of having one console with 100 million install base, you had two with around 50 million.

              Personally I hated the DS and would rank it as third on my worst platforms owned list (right behind the N64 and Wii, and right above the GBA).
              The problem started probably when they decided to go opposite type platforms, different SKUs, different disc formats, etc etc.....

              You have to admit though alot of those games weren't plagued with the issues we see now and they were far more unque titles than now

              Comment

              • Burns11
                Greatness Has Arrived
                • Mar 2007
                • 7406

                #1162
                Re: Xbox 720

                A lot of those problems are due to the fact you can patch games, it's easier to say "we'll just patch it later" than take something out of the game, then after it's out the desire to patch it goes away as the desire is to move on to the next thing. I remember trying to tell people way back when that patching ability was going to wreck console gaming, but nobody wanted to believe me.

                But that's hardly a testament to this generation of gaming not being any good. Look at some of the games/series we've had this gen: Uncharted, Bioshock, Portal, Mass Effect, Red Dead Redemption, Batman Arkham, Assassins Creed, Dark/Demon's Souls, MGS 4, Journey, Dragon Age, Skyrim, Dead Space, Deus Ex: HR, Fallout 3/New Vegas, 3D Dot Game Heroes, Heavy Rain, Catherine, Ni No Kuni, Borderlands, Infamous, Dead Space, Little Big Planet, LA Noire, Yakuza 3,4,5, Dead Rising, and I'm sure we will add Beyond: Two Souls and the Last of Us.

                I'm sure there are more, those are just from memory, but there are quite a few unique games on there, and more than just a few are new series.

                Comment

                • 23
                  yellow
                  • Sep 2002
                  • 66469

                  #1163
                  Re: Xbox 720

                  I wouldnt say it wasnt any good but you cannot deny that at some point things started to go south a bit.

                  Look at how many companys have been shut down. We're down to 1 basketball game from like 6, 1 football game, 1 baseball game consistently, then you have a mess of FPS that all look alike, some you can tell just had bigger budgets

                  Comment

                  • ubernoob
                    ****
                    • Jul 2004
                    • 15522

                    #1164
                    Re: Xbox 720

                    I didn't say there weren't good games. There are some decent games, but even then the fun factor for all of those nowhere near touches the fun factor from games on other systems.

                    Fire Emblem: Awakening is better than any game I've played on PS3/360, and it's a 3DS game.

                    RDR was a great game, but I'll take vice city over that any day of the week. MGS quality (in ways other than graphically) has gone down since the first release on PSX. Mass Effect, well... that series got bastardized. Borderlands is a PC game to me. Skyrim? Morrowind is better than Oblivion and Skyrim, I still play it more to this day. Ni No Kuni was a fun play, and I also loved the game, but you can't tell me that it didn't have a broken combat system.

                    All of those games you listed are good games, but I would be hard pressed to give anything but Uncharted (and even then, only the second one) a "great" rating to me. Portal is also a PC game to me. Heavy Rain was innovative, and I loved it... but even then it needs refinement.

                    Nowhere did I say "every game released nowadays is crap." They don't hold a candle to the older games in terms of most things (aside from visual quality, which is obviously 1000x better.)
                    bad

                    Comment

                    • Burns11
                      Greatness Has Arrived
                      • Mar 2007
                      • 7406

                      #1165
                      Re: Xbox 720

                      We're just going to have to agree to disagree on gaming being more fun, that's just pure personal bias anyway.

                      Companies being shut down happened all the time, you just hear about it more from being on the internet.

                      As far as sports games go, most of that is on the leagues that decided to go for exclusive agreements.

                      It just seems like we have a lot of selective memory going on.

                      Comment

                      • 23
                        yellow
                        • Sep 2002
                        • 66469

                        #1166
                        Re: Xbox 720

                        Originally posted by Burns11
                        We're just going to have to agree to disagree on gaming being more fun, that's just pure personal bias anyway.

                        Companies being shut down happened all the time, you just hear about it more from being on the internet.

                        As far as sports games go, most of that is on the leagues that decided to go for exclusive agreements.

                        It just seems like we have a lot of selective memory going on.
                        Selective memory? Those sports games didnt disappear because of all exclusives.. im giving reasons why this gen took a downturn. Just saying companies shut down all the time wasnt the reason either.

                        You don't have to agree, but it surely didnt end up as strong as it could have. As much as the PS2 sold after we had moved on, I can't see the same type of numbers happening without them throwing in all kind of gimmick deals to make it work.

                        Comment

                        • Burns11
                          Greatness Has Arrived
                          • Mar 2007
                          • 7406

                          #1167
                          Re: Xbox 720

                          The reason the PS2 sold so well after most had moved on is because it became dirt cheap, and that probably won't happen this go around. The PS2 was at 29 million when it went to $200, PS3 is at 77 million and it's still at $250.

                          Lets bring some more perspective to pure console sales numbers. 7 years in, the PS2 was at 106m, XBox was dead at 24m, Gamecube was dead at 21m, for 151m consoles total. Even if we exclude the Wii, the PS3 and Xbox are at 150m, that's all while costing 2-3 times as much and not even including the Wii which sits at 99m. Somebody is finding compelling reasons to buy these consoles, and I'd wager that if they could cut PS3/360 down to a single SKU each at $150 we'd easily see at least another 70m combined.

                          Comment

                          • 23
                            yellow
                            • Sep 2002
                            • 66469

                            #1168
                            Re: Xbox 720

                            Originally posted by Burns11
                            The reason the PS2 sold so well after most had moved on is because it became dirt cheap, and that probably won't happen this go around. The PS2 was at 29 million when it went to $200, PS3 is at 77 million and it's still at $250.

                            Lets bring some more perspective to pure console sales numbers. 7 years in, the PS2 was at 106m, XBox was dead at 24m, Gamecube was dead at 21m, for 151m consoles total. Even if we exclude the Wii, the PS3 and Xbox are at 150m, that's all while costing 2-3 times as much and not even including the Wii which sits at 99m. Somebody is finding compelling reasons to buy these consoles, and I'd wager that if they could cut PS3/360 down to a single SKU each at $150 we'd easily see at least another 70m combined.
                            Thats possible but but the amount of games just arent there in comparison.

                            Units sold wasn't my argument though, the longevity had more to it than just money...but this still doesn't explain some of the issues we see in this current gen that wasnt there before.

                            Comment

                            • Burns11
                              Greatness Has Arrived
                              • Mar 2007
                              • 7406

                              #1169
                              Re: Xbox 720

                              The PS2 didn't really gain much, if any, real library after 2006, but 1/3 of the final console sales happened after then. The library didn't change, so what did? Not sure if you remember, but after the PS3 came out was when Sony would start bundling controllers and games. They dropped the price to $130 and started bundling multiple games and controllers. That's what changed.

                              There are always going to be little issues, there were issues for PS2 vs PSX as well, there were issues going from Genesis/SNES to PSX. I guess it's all based on personal perspective and how you want to color things.

                              Comment

                              • Hooe
                                Hall Of Fame
                                • Aug 2002
                                • 21554

                                #1170
                                Re: Xbox 720

                                Meh, I think that this generation of console gaming has been great.

                                There have been entirely new experiences in this console generation, be it the arrival and explosion of online gaming on consoles or the creation of entirely new genres and ambitious IPs. There have been great narratives, such as Spec Ops, Bioshock, Portal, or countless other games. There exists a middle market of great games in the indie space. With the exception of JRPGs (which people aren't buying), traditional genres have been well-represented, sure, but it isn't like those genres haven't seen quality games and some inventive new wrinkles. There have been plenty of games and experiences this generation which, even when the obvious factor of graphical quality is deliberately not considered, are simply not possible to recreate on the previous generation of consoles.

                                Convenience is also at an all-time high. I can try a game before I buy it by downloading a demo, or watch someone play said game on YouTube to get an idea of what it is about, all without leaving my living room.

                                The games industry does face challenges going forward. AAA games cost more to make than ever (two recent releases, Tomb Raider and Bioshock Infinite, both reportedly had budgets which exceeded $100M) and the traditional boxed title sale model is increasingly threatened by the fremium model every day. At the same time, there are new technologies emerging which could help push the cost of game development down, notably Unity which Sony has recently backed for the PS4 and their other platforms.

                                This generation of console games has been great. I look forward to the next one.
                                Last edited by Hooe; 05-05-2013, 02:43 AM.

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