The Dark Knight Discussion **CONTAINS SPOILERS**

[Flyboy]

Re: The Dark Knight Discussion

Saw it a second time, this time in IMAX, and I ams till blown away.

Ledger is absolutely ridiculous.

Oh, and Maggie is terrible. Don't even know if I could put her above Holmes and I thought Holmes was pretty bad. Basically...Rachel just sucks as a character in both movies, in my opinion.

Holmes smoked Maggie.

[Beantown]

Re: The Dark Knight Discussion

Holmes smoked Maggie.

Yeah, I meant that as in..."I hated Holmes' portrayal of Rachel, but I don't think I could lie to myself and say Maggie was better."

I know you know how much I am not a fan of Holmes...so for me to even say that she may have been better (that's not to say I was sad to see her not return) that's a big blow to Maggie.

[Flyboy]

Re: The Dark Knight Discussion

Spoiler

After the fundraiser scene, I didn't mind Maggie too much.. everything before that point was pretty 'eh' with her, though.

[warnerwlf98]

Re: The Dark Knight Discussion

Batman: The Dark Knight = Batman: Greatest Of All Time.

Damn that movie was great.

Spoiler

Does Two-Face die in the end?

Spoiler

Yes.

[Beantown]

Re: The Dark Knight Discussion

Spoiler

After the fundraiser scene, I didn't mind Maggie too much.. everything before that point was pretty 'eh' with her, though.

Spoiler

I can agree with that. There were two main parts that I absolutely hated the way her voice sounded: when her and Dent are walking in the hallway after the Maroni court-room scene, and then when she said her answer in the warehouse. Those two parts made me loathe her.

Spoiler

Yes.

Spoiler

See, I don't know what to actually believe about whether or not Dent was actually dead. I don't really think he is, but I could see if he was and could believe both ways. I just...don't think he is. That fall wouldn't have killed him when flipping himself in a car (seatbelt or not) didn't do anything to him at all.

[Misfit]

Re: The Dark Knight Discussion

Saw it last night, can't think of a negative word to say. Great, great film.

[Beantown]

Re: The Dark Knight Discussion

Oh...and if anyone is still debating

I've seen it in both the regular theater and the IMAX and I must say, there really isn't much of a difference in the actual movie, to be honest. I couldn't really differentiate between the scenes filmed with the IMAX cameras in the two versions.

The IMAX, though, made it feel like such an incredible experience. The screen is bigger, and closer, the surround sound is amazing, the vibrations in your seat....everything just makes it that much more powerful.

Not going to recommend one way or the other....if you have the ability to go to an IMAX and don't mind spending the money, do it. If not, don't worry...it's still just as amazing in the regular theaters.

[videobastard]

Re: The Dark Knight Discussion

Great movie i may go see it again. The joker was ill. The audience kept lauging at his scenes.

[Blzer]

Re: The Dark Knight Discussion

Saw it a second time, this time in IMAX, and I ams till blown away.

Ledger is absolutely ridiculous.

Oh, and Maggie is terrible. Don't even know if I could put her above Holmes and I thought Holmes was pretty bad. Basically...Rachel just sucks as a character in both movies, in my opinion.

I thought Rachel was just too politically strong of a woman to really feel like she was in distress at any one time in BB, and in TDK, like I said earlier, it didn't help that I had a new face to try and reshape her as the same Rachel Dawes I saw in BB. I saw a much older, sophisticated woman, with no interest in Bruce Wayne whatsoever, and a little more physically stable (notice her reactions during the courtroom scene, or during the scene when the Joker approaches her as seen in the trailer). She has "fight" in her, now.

It wasn't just a change in cast. Rachel Dawes was a completely different person, that IMO I grew no emotional attachment to unlike when I saw Katie Holmes and her portrayal as Rachel Dawes in Batman Begins.

If there were a low point to this movie, Dawes definitely weekend any sort of visible love triangle that was supposedly there to begin with.

[Fresh Tendrils]

Re: The Dark Knight Discussion

Spoiler

Dawes character would have benefited from having Maggie cast as Rachel in Batman Begins. There are moments in Batman Begins where Holmes tries to muster up some courage or, as Blzer puts it, fight like Maggie does in TDK, but she just comes off as being a weak, innocent child that has no idea what she's doing. I didn't think Rachel's character changed that much. I think Rachel was written the same for both movies, just that Maggie herself seems more mature, stronger, and sophisted than Katie. Batman Begins we see Rachel remove herself from Bruce as a true love interest at the end and I'm actually glad that she didn't fall back into Bruce's arms and there wasn't this big love triangle thing in TDK. Bruce obviously had feelings for her, feelings that were for her because also because he saw her as a gateway to a return to a normal life, but I don't think she ever intended to be with him because she knew he couldn't just give up Batman. She was still definitely Rachel Dawes and I personally thought Maggie did a better job than Katie did. Rachel was still the weakest character of the cast, but she wasn't as glaring a weakness as in Batman Begins.

[warnerwlf98]

Re: The Dark Knight Discussion

Spoiler

I can agree with that. There were two main parts that I absolutely hated the way her voice sounded: when her and Dent are walking in the hallway after the Maroni court-room scene, and then when she said her answer in the warehouse. Those two parts made me loathe her.

Spoiler

See, I don't know what to actually believe about whether or not Dent was actually dead. I don't really think he is, but I could see if he was and could believe both ways. I just...don't think he is. That fall wouldn't have killed him when flipping himself in a car (seatbelt or not) didn't do anything to him at all.

Spoiler

If he were dead, it would wrap up the story IMO. The joker wanted to slay the "white knight" and make him a bad guy, but batman took the blame so gotham would still revere Dent.

Maybe he's not dead and he'll return in another sequel, but I don't think he really has to according to the way the movie was written. I interpreted Dent's character as a vehicle to show something about society and illustrate Batman as the Dark Knight, I didn't really see him as a comic book villain though, but that's just my opinion.

[Misfit]

Re: The Dark Knight Discussion

Spoiler

I can agree with that. There were two main parts that I absolutely hated the way her voice sounded: when her and Dent are walking in the hallway after the Maroni court-room scene, and then when she said her answer in the warehouse. Those two parts made me loathe her.

Spoiler

See, I don't know what to actually believe about whether or not Dent was actually dead. I don't really think he is, but I could see if he was and could believe both ways. I just...don't think he is. That fall wouldn't have killed him when flipping himself in a car (seatbelt or not) didn't do anything to him at all.

Spoiler

I think one thing we saw the GPD (even the good guys like Gordon) they aren't above a cover-up. I have to watch it again, but I don't think they ever say Dent is dead or even really imply it aside from the fact that he's uconscious after the fall. They could easily bring him back for the third film and say the GPD quietly admitted him to Arkham for treatment and allowed him to become Gotham's martyr. It's also possible they may just let him die. As much as I love the Two Face character, I wonder if Eckhart as Two Face could carry the third film. With his origin out of the way, there will be a little less sympathy for the character just because it won't be as fresh in the minds of viewers. At the same time though, Batman Begins proved that a big-time villain isn't needed to carry one of these films. And even though the Joker was a homerun here, he didn't dominate the screen and equal time was given to the rest of the cast.

Katie Holmes was better to look at, Maggie was the slightly better actress. I agree with most who say Dawes has been a weak point in the franchise thus far. I felt her only use was to give Bruce Wayne another sense of tragic loss. I even said to my buddy before the movie started that I had a feeling she would bite the dust in this movie.

Nolan and company's greatest challenge lies ahead, though. How to make a third Batman that can possibly equal the first two, especially without Ledger. I have to believe they were planning on bringing him back for the third film even if in a smaller role than the one he played here (though not quite as small as the Scarecrow's) but given Ledger's untimely death, I think they'll leave the Joker in Arkham. Finding villains that fit this realistic portrayal of Gotham is a bit challenging. One can almost throw out the supernatural such as Poison Ivy and Mr. Freeze. The Riddler is a possibility, but a challenge because his motivations would be similar to the Jokers, just less sadistic. I think bring back the League of Shadows would be a good move, perhaps with a steroid injected monster in Bane, as they would move into Gotham to capture the fugitive Batman and at the same time bring the city to its knees. Al Ghul could be a different man, as Neeson's character alluded to, he is more an ideal than a mortal man. The Lazarus pit would just be took hokey for this world. Talia could also be included as Batman needs a new girl. Catwoman is also always a possibility. And I wouldn't be surprised to see someone like The Penguin play a minor role. At any rate, it's going to be a long, long wait.

[Blzer]

Re: The Dark Knight Discussion

Spoiler

See, I don't know what to actually believe about whether or not Dent was actually dead. I don't really think he is, but I could see if he was and could believe both ways. I just...don't think he is. That fall wouldn't have killed him when flipping himself in a car (seatbelt or not) didn't do anything to him at all.

Here's how I see it:

Spoiler

If the Brothers' Nolan are to take part in another Batman sequel, Dent is dead. If someone else takes over, it is their own "mess to clean up," so to speak, if they want to keep him alive. IMO the car crash is irrelevant. I personally know people that have survived worse crashes. And sometimes it's all about what is impacted on... well... on impact. There won't be a scientist popping up in a sequel explaining why he may have died in the fall but not in the crash, so you just have to leave it up to a coin toss.

Honestly, there weren't really any loose ends left to tie up at the end of this movie. Batman fled, a manhunt was ordered on him as Gordon crushed the light fixture, Fox resigned, Rachel has died, the Joker is in jail, and Gotham is safe as long as they believe it was The Dark Knight that committed those murders and not The White Night and that there is still hope that people, on the inside, are good (think back about what the entire boat scene was about, especially the prisoner's action). And with the very powerful ending words by Gordon, I think that the Nolan's executed these two movies perfectly where it doesn't require another movie.

I think what I'm trying to say is this movie isn't really trilogy-bound like other movies have been. In Spider-Man, MJ and Peter have just got going, Harry needs to exact his vengeance on Peter, and New York is still very much wanting Spider-Man. A third one was completely necessary, but from this point on, I don't believe another one of those movies are necessary, either.


However (and that is a big however)... if a third movie is to be made and if both Nolan brothers are to fully cooperate, we have to list out some new enemies. Well I think that if there was any subtlety to lingering clues left in this movie, recall when Wayne and Fox were discussing new fabric for his suit. When Wayne asked whether it would stop dogs, Fox said that it would at least stop a cat (or something along the lines of that). Could this leave room for Catwoman in Batman 3? I think that's a definite possibility.

Otherwise, I was very content with these two movies and, for the sake of leaving on a high note and risking franchise demoralization (especially if they re-cast The Joker, get a new director or screenplay writer, or include Robin or The Penguin), I certainly would not mind if they, for the time being, closed the book on the series. I'm sure some of you would disagree.

[warnerwlf98]

Re: The Dark Knight Discussion

Here's how I see it:

Spoiler

If the Brothers' Nolan are to take part in another Batman sequel, Dent is dead. If someone else takes over, it is their own "mess to clean up," so to speak, if they want to keep him alive. IMO the car crash is irrelevant. I personally know people that have survived worse crashes. And sometimes it's all about what is impacted on... well... on impact. There won't be a scientist popping up in a sequel explaining why he may have died in the fall but not in the crash, so you just have to leave it up to a coin toss.

Honestly, there weren't really any loose ends left to tie up at the end of this movie. Batman fled, a manhunt was ordered on him as Gordon crushed the light fixture, Fox resigned, Rachel has died, the Joker is in jail, and Gotham is safe as long as they believe it was The Dark Knight that committed those murders and not The White Night and that there is still hope that people, on the inside, are good (think back about what the entire boat scene was about, especially the prisoner's action). And with the very powerful ending words by Gordon, I think that the Nolan's executed these two movies perfectly where it doesn't require another movie.

I think what I'm trying to say is this movie isn't really trilogy-bound like other movies have been. In Spider-Man, MJ and Peter have just got going, Harry needs to exact his vengeance on Peter, and New York is still very much wanting Spider-Man. A third one was completely necessary, but from this point on, I don't believe another one of those movies are necessary, either.


However (and that is a big however)... if a third movie is to be made and if both Nolan brothers are to fully cooperate, we have to list out some new enemies. Well I think that if there was any subtlety to lingering clues left in this movie, recall when Wayne and Fox were discussing new fabric for his suit. When Wayne asked whether it would stop dogs, Fox said that it would at least stop a cat (or something along the lines of that). Could this leave room for Catwoman in Batman 3? I think that's a definite possibility.

Otherwise, I was very content with these two movies and, for the sake of leaving on a high note and risking franchise demoralization (especially if they re-cast The Joker, get a new director or screenplay writer, or include Robin or The Penguin), I certainly would not mind if they, for the time being, closed the book on the series. I'm sure some of you would disagree.

I totally agree, but (joke coming) . . .

Spoiler

Nolan's version of Catwoman could be one of those cooky ladies that live with 50 cats in a small apartment, starts to act like a cat and becomes an insane criminal . . .

[The Chef]

Re: The Dark Knight Discussion

Here's how I see it:

Spoiler

If the Brothers' Nolan are to take part in another Batman sequel, Dent is dead. If someone else takes over, it is their own "mess to clean up," so to speak, if they want to keep him alive. IMO the car crash is irrelevant. I personally know people that have survived worse crashes. And sometimes it's all about what is impacted on... well... on impact. There won't be a scientist popping up in a sequel explaining why he may have died in the fall but not in the crash, so you just have to leave it up to a coin toss.

Honestly, there weren't really any loose ends left to tie up at the end of this movie. Batman fled, a manhunt was ordered on him as Gordon crushed the light fixture, Fox resigned, Rachel has died, the Joker is in jail, and Gotham is safe as long as they believe it was The Dark Knight that committed those murders and not The White Night and that there is still hope that people, on the inside, are good (think back about what the entire boat scene was about, especially the prisoner's action). And with the very powerful ending words by Gordon, I think that the Nolan's executed these two movies perfectly where it doesn't require another movie.

I think what I'm trying to say is this movie isn't really trilogy-bound like other movies have been. In Spider-Man, MJ and Peter have just got going, Harry needs to exact his vengeance on Peter, and New York is still very much wanting Spider-Man. A third one was completely necessary, but from this point on, I don't believe another one of those movies are necessary, either.


However (and that is a big however)... if a third movie is to be made and if both Nolan brothers are to fully cooperate, we have to list out some new enemies. Well I think that if there was any subtlety to lingering clues left in this movie, recall when Wayne and Fox were discussing new fabric for his suit. When Wayne asked whether it would stop dogs, Fox said that it would at least stop a cat (or something along the lines of that). Could this leave room for Catwoman in Batman 3? I think that's a definite possibility.

Otherwise, I was very content with these two movies and, for the sake of leaving on a high note and risking franchise demoralization (especially if they re-cast The Joker, get a new director or screenplay writer, or include Robin or The Penguin), I certainly would not mind if they, for the time being, closed the book on the series. I'm sure some of you would disagree.

Im not sure if this really needs a spolier tag but I will include one anyways...

Spoiler

I thought Bale was signed on to do 3 movies in the Batman franchise already? If so then thats a guarantee that there will be another one. You sound like you wouldnt want the Penguin, is there a reason for it? I agree about Robin, Bale already said he would never work on the Batman franchise again if they tried to include Robin in them.