Superman Returns

[SportsTop]

Re: Superman Returns

And as far as Superman Returns is concerned, how did he have too much jealousy? How did he have too much guilt? IMHO, he didn't have enough REASON for guilt, because the film does a poor job of establishing the world is worse off without him than with him. As for jealousy, he displayed a bit of jealousy, but I think that's natural, because he still has feelings like any human.

Really, I thought there should have been more guilt or at least a better representation of why he would have guilt. What we see isn't really guilt as much as regret with Superman. He regrets leaving Lois, and the world. But we don't see any cause for actual guilt because the film does a poor job of establishing how the world is with and without Superman. I wouldn't say the emotions expressed by Superman were actual guilt, I think they were more in line with regret.

I think you are putting too much into the whole "establishing how the world is with and without Superman" reference.

This movie differs from the other comic book movies we've seen the past six years or so because it is a sequel from movies released in the late 70's and early 80's. Based on those movies we saw how the world was with and without Superman. Because this movie is a continuation of I & II, then we have to include those stories in with this one. We saw how the public fell in love with him in Superman I and how they felt betrayed and lost when he "disappeared" in Superman II.

Besides, I still fall back on the whole story being mostly about Superman and Lois. I felt that Lois' feelings reflected that of everyone else's. She felt abandoned/the world felt abandoned, but she continued on with her life when he left just as everyone else did. When Superman returned, no matter how betrayed or angry Lois might have felt, the feelings of adoration and hope returned with him and the same with the general public.

It appeared to me that Singer wanted to focus on the Superman and Lois relationship to humanize him a bit more to the audience. That's where he felt his money could be made with the audience so they could relate just a bit more to him instead of seeing him as this indestructible, mythic figure.

I think getting into a storyline about what the world's reaction was to Superman's departure and his return would've added on too much fluff for the average movie-goer and turned them off to a movie that was already at a 2:40 running time.

[GAMEC0CK2002]

Re: Superman Returns

I saw SR last week and thought it was okay, not great and definitely not as good as Spidey 1 or 2. I thought the movie was way too long for the little amount of action and the character development was pretty weak. I also didn't like the vibe that I got from Superman...even though he did the right thing, he still came off as being selfish and self centered/showboating.

The movie would have been much better without the "lovechild" innuendo. Didn't really add anything but story, but did make a hit on Superman's character, IMO.

[SonicMage]

Re: Superman Returns

It appeared to me that Singer wanted to focus on the Superman and Lois relationship to humanize him a bit more to the audience. That's where he felt his money could be made with the audience so they could relate just a bit more to him instead of seeing him as this indestructible, mythic figure.

And that is exactly where the mistake lies. You don't make James Bond fall to his knees for a woman, and you dont make Superman abandon his morality for earthly reasons. It loses the magic.

Superman has historically been a representation of the ultimate in morality, correct? Clark Kent is supposed to be the character where the humanity within him is exposed. This movie showed Superman acting exactly like Clark Kent, the duality has been blurred.

The specific scene I have in mind is Superman eavesdropping on Lois' "family". Superman (not Clark) abandoned morality for human weakness. This is where I think they went wrong with the character.

Plus, if they wanted the movie to be a piece about humanity with an indie feel, then they should not have advertised it as an action movie. I can't stand it when marketers do that, because, as much as I love movies with human depth more than anything, I bought my ticket for this movie to see Superman kick some *** for justice since he's been gone from the silver screen for so long, and what I got was a shell of the original Superman, who was being saved more than doing the saving.

[SportsTop]

Re: Superman Returns

And that is exactly where the mistake lies. You don't make James Bond fall to his knees for a woman, and you dont make Superman abandon his morality for earthly reasons. It loses the magic.

Superman has historically been a representation of the ultimate in morality, correct? Clark Kent is supposed to be the character where the humanity within him is exposed. This movie showed Superman acting exactly like Clark Kent, the duality has been blurred.

The specific scene I have in mind is Superman eavesdropping on Lois' "family". Superman (not Clark) abandoned morality for human weakness. This is where I think they went wrong with the character.

Plus, if they wanted the movie to be a piece about humanity with an indie feel, then they should not have advertised it as an action movie. I can't stand it when marketers do that, because, as much as I love movies with human depth more than anything, I bought my ticket for this movie to see Superman kick some *** for justice since he's been gone from the silver screen for so long, and what I got was a shell of the original Superman, who was being saved more than doing the saving.

I think Singer's rendition of Superman is more believable than the others we've been introduced to over the years.

Let's face it, he was raised by humans and around humans. You would think, no matter how powerful or otherworldy he was, that he would be prone to such feelings as jealousy and other lesser becoming traits rather than the holier than thou being we've been accustomed to.

[SonicMage]

Re: Superman Returns

I think Singer's rendition of Superman is more believable than the others we've been introduced to over the years.

Let's face it, he was raised by humans and around humans. You would think, no matter how powerful or otherworldy he was, that he would be prone to such feelings as jealousy and other lesser becoming traits rather than the holier than thou being we've been accustomed to.

If Superman was so bad the way he's been portrayed to this point, why would it have gained so much popularity?

Superman is supposed to be symbolic, not just another human.

Plus, be careful with the word "believable" and don't forget this is fantasy fiction we're talking about here. Superman is not real, and never was supposed to be real.

[SportsTop]

Re: Superman Returns

If Superman was so bad the way he's been portrayed to this point, why would it have gained so much popularity?

Superman is supposed to be symbolic, not just another human.

Plus, be careful with the word "believable" and don't forget this is fantasy fiction we're talking about here. Superman is not real, and never was supposed to be real.

No one ever said Superman was "bad". I think Singer wanted to add a little more depth to Superman the character rather than try to draw audiences in with another "Yay, here comes Superman flying in to save the day" movie.

LOL....give me a break with the "believable" line. If you don't get how I'm using that word within the framework of this conversation then skip over every post I've made or will make.

[SPTO]

Re: Superman Returns

And that is exactly where the mistake lies. You don't make James Bond fall to his knees for a woman, and you dont make Superman abandon his morality for earthly reasons. It loses the magic.

I dunno, On Her Majesty's Secret Service is my favourite Bond movie of all time and Bond was attached to one woman exclusively in it. If you've never seen it I suggest you rent it. It's quite a good flick.

[mgoblue]

Re: Superman Returns

I dunno, On Her Majesty's Secret Service is my favourite Bond movie of all time and Bond was attached to one woman exclusively in it. If you've never seen it I suggest you rent it. It's quite a good flick.

i'm going to disagree, I think Lazenby was not a good Bond at all...not necessarily a horrible movie, just not what Bond should be

[aukevin]

Re: Superman Returns

Bryan Singer says he would love to do a Superman/Batman movie one day, he just doesn't know who the villian would be. Wonder if it would ever happen? Obviously the easiest way to get a villian in this movie would be a team up of villians, maybe something like one or two big baddies like Luthor or Joker and then throw in some henchmen like Solomon Grundy or Metallo. Anyway, it would be a cool movie if he ever got around to it.

"I've thought about it for a long time - even a longer time ago, actually," the director revealed. "But I don't know who would be the villain. I guess Batman would be the villain, but then he can't be too bad, because he is Batman. So not quite yet. ... I think Superman needs to have his own movies for a little while before that happens." Either way, Singer insisted that "everybody's excited to do more ... and I'm sure we'll do another one."

[SPTO]

Re: Superman Returns

Bryan Singer says he would love to do a Superman/Batman movie one day, he just doesn't know who the villian would be. Wonder if it would ever happen? Obviously the easiest way to get a villian in this movie would be a team up of villians, maybe something like one or two big baddies like Luthor or Joker and then throw in some henchmen like Solomon Grundy or Metallo. Anyway, it would be a cool movie if he ever got around to it.

A Superman/Batman team up movie has been rumoured FOR years. I remember reading that this was the plan for DC's reintroduction to the movie side of things but it proved to be too costly and it only got to the concept stage.

A movie with both these superheros would be damn near impossible to pull off unless Singer and Nolan worked together.

[SlimKibbles]

Re: Superman Returns

I just saw this yesterday and I liked it. My friend who came along didn't though. Thought Routh played Superman well, especially Clark Kent. Pretty good story too. I will say I like Kate Bosworth as a brunette as opposed to a blonde. BTW, I was a little surprised to see Kumar (didn't know the actor's name at the time) as one of Luthor's henchmen. I don't think Kal Penn had one line in the movie, did he?

[neovsmatrix]

Re: Superman Returns

I think you are putting too much into the whole "establishing how the world is with and without Superman" reference.

This movie differs from the other comic book movies we've seen the past six years or so because it is a sequel from movies released in the late 70's and early 80's. Based on those movies we saw how the world was with and without Superman. Because this movie is a continuation of I & II, then we have to include those stories in with this one. We saw how the public fell in love with him in Superman I and how they felt betrayed and lost when he "disappeared" in Superman II.

Besides, I still fall back on the whole story being mostly about Superman and Lois. I felt that Lois' feelings reflected that of everyone else's. She felt abandoned/the world felt abandoned, but she continued on with her life when he left just as everyone else did. When Superman returned, no matter how betrayed or angry Lois might have felt, the feelings of adoration and hope returned with him and the same with the general public.

It appeared to me that Singer wanted to focus on the Superman and Lois relationship to humanize him a bit more to the audience. That's where he felt his money could be made with the audience so they could relate just a bit more to him instead of seeing him as this indestructible, mythic figure.

I think getting into a storyline about what the world's reaction was to Superman's departure and his return would've added on too much fluff for the average movie-goer and turned them off to a movie that was already at a 2:40 running time.

Well, it was a poor choice to have Lois's feelings reflect that of everyone else's. For one thing, Lois has a PERSONAL relationship with Superman. That alone makes her a really poor choice as far as representing Superman's relationship with the world, as the relationship between Superman and Lois isn't representative of the relationship between Superman and the average citizen.

And you can't just mention the world doesn't need/or does need a saviour and not expect to address it during the movie. Bad storytelling, and IMHO your excuse doesn't work. They mentioned it several times during the movie, and really, I don't think Superman Returns is supposed to follow EXACTLY from the first two (they make it rather ambiguous). Either way, doesn't matter. If you're going to mention that idea in the movie, you have to address it. I wasn't inspired or uplifted by the movie, and that just seems wrong for a Superman movie to fail in that way. Seeing the world's reaction with and without Superman would have made his absence and return feel more meaningful than having the world embrace him outright, and everything seems to return to normal. It's devoid of emotional value and it just makes the whole "return" angle insignificant.

I've seen it a second time though, and I still liked it as a decent comic book movie. But it could and should have been much better than it turned out.

[rudyjuly2]

Re: Superman Returns

I saw the movie two weeks ago and just wanted to say I really enjoyed it. I still think the Spiderman movies were the best ones done though. I personally have always liked Spiderman more than Superman just because Superman is so invinceable. I also never cared that much for Christopher Reeves or the earlier Superman movies but this one was really well done. The format of the movie is not like that of Spiderman or X-Men simply since there are no super bad guys but that's OK. I actually like the episodes of Smallville better when he's not constantly battling kryptonite-roided enemies.

I liked all the characters in the movie which is really what the movie was about: Clark, Lois, Lex, the Daily Planet and of course Superman. This was not a dark movie nor should it have been. The actual evil plot wasn't that great and was probably the weak point of the movie but I let that slide. The movie was character driven and done really well. There were a couple of times where I got a lump in my throat while watching the movie just because you are rooting for Superman. His return was great and the response from the people was great. Its those types of things that made the movie worthwhile.

Anyone expecting super-powered battles with tons of action scenes or supervillains would be disappointed. It was less cheesy than the original Superman movies and was simply a very good movie. My wife loved it too (maybe even more than me). Definately worth watching.

P.S. Apparently the actors are signed on to do episodes 2 and 3 but since the first one cost so much and isn't doing as well at the Box Office, einsiders.com has speculated that the Box Office take must hit $200 million for them to do the sequal(s). It will probably come close but people are flocking to Pirates like a moth to a flame.

[SPTO]

Re: Superman Returns

P.S. Apparently the actors are signed on to do episodes 2 and 3 but since the first one cost so much and isn't doing as well at the Box Office, einsiders.com has speculated that the Box Office take must hit $200 million for them to do the sequal(s). It will probably come close but people are flocking to Pirates like a moth to a flame.

That would truly suck if they made 199 Million. I think WB would be wise to factor DVD sales into the equation. More people these days seem to be going for the DVD rather then the actual movie experience which is kinda sad.

[aukevin]

Re: Superman Returns

That would truly suck if they made 199 Million. I think WB would be wise to factor DVD sales into the equation. More people these days seem to be going for the DVD rather then the actual movie experience which is kinda sad.

I've seen articles where they mention they would like to see $200 million domestic gross from the movie in order to go on with sequels. As of July 17th, the movie is at $164.3 million and a total of $241,316,103 worldwide. Compared to Batman Begins which pulled in $205 million domestically, Batman Begins brought in about $24 million less than Superman Returns in its first 7 days. So Superman Returns businessmen do expect the movie to go over $200 million domestically.